Patrick Stewart to reprise role as Star Trek's Jean-Luc Picard

johnjm22

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So, you weren't a fan of the Sex in the City Vulcan? :biglaugh:

(In her defense, it was more that the character was written that way)

We're talking about Valleris in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. She's the one played by Kim Cattrall.

You know, come to think of it, I seem to have a vague memory of a rumor that it was originally supposed to be Saavik who turned traitor. Maybe that's where the "half Romulan" rumor that The Nemesis mentioned came from. I also have a vague memory that that didn't happen because, as soon as Kim Cattrall showed an interest in being in Star Trek (or, knowing her, she might've... cozied up to the right person to get the role), they created a new character for her, instead.
I thought she was okay. Did people not like the character? I did. Maybe a little too emotional but not bad.

And yes originally it was supposed to be Saavik. Gene Rodenberry hated the idea of a Starfleet officer betraying the Federation, and he especially hated the idea of it being Saavik because fans had grown fond of her character. Also nobody wanted to have a third different actor play Saavik. Kristy Alley had turned down the role and Nicholas Meyer wasn't a fan of Robin Curtis.

So the character of Valeris was created. Cattrall had auditioned for the role of Saavik for The Wrath of Khan so she was the logical choice to play Valeris. She had also auditioned for Star Trek V.
 

The Nemesis

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Troi was also much better when they toned down the gimmicks with her as the series went on as well. Her early character serves no purpose other than to talk about what people are feeling, except when she can't.

Yeah. They played her up as this big advantage for Picard, having someone who could tell what the other side was thinking and give him intel. Then they found a way to either make her observations useless ("I'm sensing a lot of hostility, captain." when the guy was very obviously upset) or find a way to negate them.

Some of her stuff in the later seasons was quite good though. That one episode where she had the b-story about taking the bridge officer exam was great (playing off the earlier episode where she was the ranking officer stuck on the bridge when the ship was damaged and she had absolutely no idea what she was doing). The episode where she finds out about her dead older sister was good too.

At least they found something for Troi to do. Crusher got her one big moment in command of the ship in the season 7 premiere and then her biggest episode afterwards was the one where she has ghost sex with the candle alien.
 

Cloned

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At least they found something for Troi to do. Crusher got her one big moment in command of the ship in the season 7 premiere and then her biggest episode afterwards was the one where she has ghost sex with the candle alien.

I'm not sure if that's better or worse than Geordi developing a hologram fetish with the charged photons of the facsimile of Dr. Leah Brahms.
 

Blender

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I'm not sure if that's better or worse than Geordi developing a hologram fetish with the charged photons of the facsimile of Dr. Leah Brahms.
Ghost sex episode is definitely worse. Might be the worst episode of the series that includes a few really bad episodes.
 

Cloned

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Ghost sex episode is definitely worse. Might be the worst episode of the series that includes a few really bad episodes.

"Threshold" still takes the prize for me for that honour.

Also to note Troi wasn't immune herself from having episodes where she had weird sex with non-corporeal beings.
 

Blender

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"Threshold" still takes the prize for me for that honour.

Also to note Troi wasn't immune herself from having episodes where she had weird sex with non-corporeal beings.
I was talking about TNG specifically, but yes Threshold is the worst episode of Star Trek ever.
 

The Nemesis

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I'm not sure if that's better or worse than Geordi developing a hologram fetish with the charged photons of the facsimile of Dr. Leah Brahms.

They did a lot to make Geordi come off like a total creeper in basically every romantic entanglement he had.
 

Baby Punisher

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If you haven't seen it, watch William Shatner's documentary "Chaos on the Bridge" about the creation and first season of TNG. It's a really good peek behind the curtain.

There's a section discussing the casting of Picard and they had the story of Patrick Stewart coming into audition. He was apparently teaching an acting class at a university in California when someone on the production staff noticed him and thought he would be good for Picard. But knowing that Roddenberry wanted someone with hair (there was some mention of Gene's future utopia having no baldness anymore), Stewart had to have a toupee fedex'd from England. so he comes in with the toupee (which apparently looks awful) and reads and he isn't very impressive so they thank him and dismiss him. Stewart gets into the hallway and thinking he's just blown it, he pulls the hair off his head in frustration. But then someone in the room wants to give him another chance because he/she believes Stewart is the right choice and they bring him back in and for whatever reason he's much more impressive this time. Then Roddenberry's hair objection comes up again and one of the other execs says something like "wouldn't it just be that in the better future nobody cares about being bald?" or something like that, and Roddenberry's original objection is basically overwritten from there.

Seriously though, the whole documentary is extremely fascinating. It's a lot better than Shatner's other doc where he just interviews the various other leads from the different series (aka the one with the segment where Avery Brooks seems like he's higher than a space shuttle and they just dick around on a piano the whole time)

I've said it before, but Gene Roddenberry's contributions to the success of Star Trek are vastly overstated, in no small part thanks to his own engineering of events. He created a great framework, but a lot of the things that people love most about the series have come from the minds of others that worked on the show (Gene Coon, Bob Justman, DC Fontana, Rick Berman, Michael Piller, Brannon Braga, Ron Moore, etc). In fact, it seemed like a lot of times people had to fight against some of Roddenberry's more outlandish, backwards, or straight-up bizarre ideas just to keep Star Trek from doing something that could sabotage its success.




This looks wrong beyond compare.




I do remember that they wanted Saavik to be the traitor for impact purposes. I believe that Alley was unavailable (I can't remember if this was in the middle of her run on Cheers or not) and that someone on the production staff (Nicholas Meyer? Would make sense given he directed Alley in STII) wasn't a fan of Robin Curtis' performance in STIII. I think there was also discussion that someone (it might have been Roddenberry, though given his health at that point in time perhaps not) was hesitant to pull the trigger on traitor-Saavik out of fear of fan reaction given how popular the character had become.

I swear I also read somewhere that the romulan angle was intended to be transported over to Valeris when they crafted the new character as a replacement, but now I can't find any evidence of that and I might just be combining elements of the two character stories into one.

Regardless, it would've made Cattrall's performance a lot more understandable

Im watching Chaos on the bridge now.

**EDIT** It's so interesting that I recall the first two seasons being ok, not great. I recall one or two episodes of season one being good. Season two had a few good ones too. When season three opened they had different uniforms, the bridge looked different and the attitude was different. You could just feel the show taking that next direction that saw it hit it's stride. I was like 12 when the TNG premired and being excited for it because my Father and I used to watch the orginal together. I'm not sure why we did. But we did. It used to run on Saturday night at 7pm on WPIX and re-run at 11pm Sunday night. I would always watch it Sunday night before bed.
 
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Osprey

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They did a lot to make Geordi come off like a total creeper in basically every romantic entanglement he had.

To be fair, it's hard not to come off as a creeper when you wear a hairband that can see through women's clothing. Maybe that's why his greatest love had to be a hologram.
 

Puck

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The following article is a bit of a sidebar from 'Picard back to Star Trek', but it also relates to the environment that is creating all these new shows like Star Trek for the new pay networks (CBC Access, Netflix, Amazon etc.).

It is a relatively long article but interesting. I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread for this, I'll just tuck it here. It did make me wonder about Stewart's pay, I figure either $350,000 to 500,000 per episode.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/peak-tv-business-c-v-r.html
 

Tawnos

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Yeah. They played her up as this big advantage for Picard, having someone who could tell what the other side was thinking and give him intel. Then they found a way to either make her observations useless ("I'm sensing a lot of hostility, captain." when the guy was very obviously upset) or find a way to negate them.

Some of her stuff in the later seasons was quite good though. That one episode where she had the b-story about taking the bridge officer exam was great (playing off the earlier episode where she was the ranking officer stuck on the bridge when the ship was damaged and she had absolutely no idea what she was doing). The episode where she finds out about her dead older sister was good too.

At least they found something for Troi to do. Crusher got her one big moment in command of the ship in the season 7 premiere and then her biggest episode afterwards was the one where she has ghost sex with the candle alien.

Crusher has plenty of big moments. But she also doesn’t play a relatively superfluous and awkward role that the writers didn’t know what to do with. The doctor always has something to do.

She does play a key role in one of my personal top-5 episodes... although it’s really a pet episode for me. Cause and Effect. Although it’s not really a “big” moment.
 

LeafalCrusader

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Refresh my memory what happened to her behind the scenes after season 1. Did she quit fired or go on maternity leave. I remember Polaski came in in season 2 and everyone hated her guts and then celebrated when Crusher came back in season 3.
 

The Nemesis

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Refresh my memory what happened to her behind the scenes after season 1. Did she quit fired or go on maternity leave. I remember Polaski came in in season 2 and everyone hated her guts and then celebrated when Crusher came back in season 3.

Officially she left to 'pursue other interests'.

Unofficially she was frustrated by having nothing to do most of the time and the writers couldn't think of anything or didn't care to. Then when Pulaski's attempt at being McCoy 2.0 failed (on account of Pulaski not being a redeeming, decent human being the way McCoy was, and of her relationship with Data being more mean-spirited and spiteful than the Spock/McCoy playful banter) they convinced her to come back if she got to do more with the part.

Super-Unofficially there have been rumors that she and Gene Roddenberry didn't get along for unspecified reasons.
 

Blender

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Officially she left to 'pursue other interests'.

Unofficially she was frustrated by having nothing to do most of the time and the writers couldn't think of anything or didn't care to. Then when Pulaski's attempt at being McCoy 2.0 failed (on account of Pulaski not being a redeeming, decent human being the way McCoy was, and of her relationship with Data being more mean-spirited and spiteful than the Spock/McCoy playful banter) they convinced her to come back if she got to do more with the part.

Super-Unofficially there have been rumors that she and Gene Roddenberry didn't get along for unspecified reasons.
She was fired by Maurice Hurely.

Rick Berman Talks 18 Years of Trek In Extensive Oral History

Gates McFadden fired at end of first season because head writer Maurice Hurley "he had a real bone to pick" with Gates and didn’t like her acting, Berman brought Gates back for 3rd season after Hurley left
 

The Nemesis

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Huh. Weird. It's weird how strange and warped the tale seems to have gotten. I've read a bunch of versions and what I wrote above was more or less what I could cobble together out of commonality of those tales.

Maurice Hurley seemed like a tool though based on stuff from Panic on the Bridge and other discussions about him. He seemed like a hired gun who seized power when things went to hell in season 1. He had no real loyalty or interest in Trek itself.
 

Cloned

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Huh. Weird. It's weird how strange and warped the tale seems to have gotten. I've read a bunch of versions and what I wrote above was more or less what I could cobble together out of commonality of those tales.

Maurice Hurley seemed like a tool though based on stuff from Panic on the Bridge and other discussions about him. He seemed like a hired gun who seized power when things went to hell in season 1. He had no real loyalty or interest in Trek itself.

Hurley was a real nightmare according to everything I've seen and read.

Think Gordon Ramsay, but without any semblance (or even pretense) of decency.
 
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Drytoast

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Watching this



And seeing how Sir Patrick stresses in that this will be a much different Jean Luc Picard then the one we last saw...I think that's what got him jazzed to come back.

So my prediction now is that he's retired from starfleet, and will be a broken man from passed tragedies that happened in the 30 years between shows...

Perhaps he's dragged out of retirement to serve aboard a star ship that encountered something that he has familiarity with and they need an adviser of sorts.

I can get behind that.

So he won't an admiral. He won't be a captain...he will be an adviser to the captain of this star ship who is reluctant and brash and feels he doesn't need Picard's supervision or help?

Toss is an offspring all grown up like maybe Riker's son who is chief security officer or whatever just for a call back who will be on his side and is someone Picard can be familiar with.

f*** it. Call me up paramount, I can write this shit.
 
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Huh. Weird. It's weird how strange and warped the tale seems to have gotten. I've read a bunch of versions and what I wrote above was more or less what I could cobble together out of commonality of those tales.

Maurice Hurley seemed like a tool though based on stuff from Panic on the Bridge and other discussions about him. He seemed like a hired gun who seized power when things went to hell in season 1. He had no real loyalty or interest in Trek itself.

Yeah I read she wanted better scripts, ect. Happy she came back, the year she was out she had a bit part in Red October.
 

Jussi

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Give me an anthology type series involving the various alien/secondary characters from assorted series. Garak, Martok, Quark/Rom/Nog (but with less comedy focus), find a way to bring back Weyoun, Tomalak (probably not doable given that Andreas Katsulas is dead), Hugh, hell go back to Enterprise era and do something with Shran. A series that's not focused on a ship of unlikeable characters like Discovery and instead is free to explore 5-10 stories a season (of <=20 episodes) of the various nooks and crannies of the Star Trek universe would be infinitely more interesting.

The issue would be that it would likely be a hard sell because it would mostly cater to existing fans and have a hard time drawing in new viewers who don't have the back-story and history on all the characters and concepts they would use without an explanatory introduction.

That would be Star Trek Online. The most recent DLC called "Victory Is Life" focuses on Deep Space 9 (they re-did the interiors to match the show) and features, Odo, Kira, Bashir, Quark, Rom, Nog (though he was in an earlier "episode" already), Garak, Weyoun. They even replaced the previous version of the Cardassian ambassador with Garak and the previous Weyoun with the "real one". All of the original actors gave their voices.



 

Osprey

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I don't want a "much different" Picard or a "very different" Spock. Subtle differences are OK, because they're at different stages of their careers than we're used to and new facets are expected, but the way that it seems like Kurtzman wants to change them to make them his own worries me and makes me wonder if he understands or even cares what fans want. He certainly didn't when it came to Discovery.

It sounds like Stewart was convinced to return because he expects another hopeful, positive vision of the future, which makes me wonder if he's watched Discovery, since it's the antithesis of TNG. Instead of mostly working in harmony to promote peace through the universe, the crew fights amongst themselves and finds ways to make things worse (like Burnham single-handedly starting a war). I don't have faith that Kurtzman has any intention of producing the hopeful, inspirational show that Stewart seems to think that he's signing on for.
 
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RandV

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Watching this



And seeing how Sir Patrick stresses in that this will be a much different Jean Luc Picard then the one we last saw...I think that's what got him jazzed to come back.

So my prediction now is that he's retired from starfleet, and will be a broken man from passed tragedies that happened in the 30 years between shows...

Perhaps he's dragged out of retirement to serve aboard a star ship that encountered something that he has familiarity with and they need an adviser of sorts.

I can get behind that.

So he won't an admiral. He won't be a captain...he will be an adviser to the captain of this star ship who is reluctant and brash and feels he doesn't need Picard's supervision or help?

Toss is an offspring all grown up like maybe Riker's son who is chief security officer or whatever just for a call back who will be on his side and is someone Picard can be familiar with.

**** it. Call me up paramount, I can write this ****.


So basically he would move to this role:

cec498053538cbc9228a28e882d405d4.jpg


:sarcasm:
 
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