Speculation: Patrick Kane and Seth Jones future with Hawks

[giza]

Talking about Kane and trades at this point is like watching the stock market daily to monitor your 401K----it doesn't do you any good.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Complaining about Kane and Seth not producing the morning after they both had two point games is a take.

 

[Pez68]

Complaining about Kane and Seth not producing the morning after they both had two point games is a take.

Can mods not use the ignore feature? I'm very sorry.

 

[madgoat33]

Can mods not use the ignore feature? I'm very sorry.

They probably could have just banned him after some of his posts in the beach thread. Coulda saved us all...

 

[CallMeShaft]

They probably could have just banned him after some of his posts in the beach thread. Coulda saved us all...

Let's be honest, nobody here (including moderation) could even decipher any of his posts in those threads.

Probably a good thing.

 

[Giovi]

Let's be honest, nobody here (including moderation) could even decipher any of his posts in those threads.

Probably a good thing.

I'm surprised anybody was, or is, trying to decipher his alphabet salad.

 

[ctheham]

According to NHL stats: Seth Jones > Patrick Kane

 

[Naster Okan]

I'm surprised anybody was, or is, trying to decipher his alphabet salad.

I must be hungry because alphabet salad sounds delicious.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

If Kane does want to move, could the islanders be the best spot from a cap dump perspective?

Hawks are going to need players to hit the cap floor next year without the Toews and Kane contracts. The Islanders have multiple guys signed to multi year deals in the 5-6 million range, and who are seemingly not big contributors to that team.

JG Pageau
Kyle Palmieri
Maybe Josh Bailey

If the Hawks are willing to take any of those guys as a cap dump in return, it could increase the price the Islanders are willing to pay for Kane at 50%.

Seems like a win-win for both sides. Islanders improve while clearing long term cap, Hawks add extra draft capital while getting help hitting next year’s cap floor.

 

[Hawkey]

Kane does not look very impressive so far this year. I’m starting to think the return on a Kane trade could be underwhelming.

On the other hand, Toews could get more in a trade then what I was thinking. He has been surprisingly productive.

 

[Kevin Musto]

If Kane does want to move, could the islanders be the best spot from a cap dump perspective?

Hawks are going to need players to hit the cap floor next year without the Toews and Kane contracts. The Islanders have multiple guys signed to multi year deals in the 5-6 million range, and who are seemingly not big contributors to that team.

JG Pageau
Kyle Palmieri
Maybe Josh Bailey

If the Hawks are willing to take any of those guys as a cap dump in return, it could increase the price the Islanders are willing to pay for Kane at 50%.

Seems like a win-win for both sides. Islanders improve while clearing long term cap, Hawks add extra draft capital while getting help hitting next year’s cap floor.

Pageau and Palmieri both have 16 team no trade lists. I doubt Chicago is on them, but still something to keep in mind.

I'd gladly take any of those 3 to make the cap work. Any of them can be flipped later for more assets. Though Pageau in particular would thrive in Richardson's system. I could lowkey see him having a career year in Chicago and upping his value.

As for assets, the 2023 1st is a given. William Dufour is the target imo. He's a true KD/LuRich type player.

To Chicago:

-2023 1st round pick
-JG Pageau
-William Dufour

To Long Island:

-Patrick Kane (@50% retention)

That'd be pretty ideal if you ask me. Maybe throw in another pick that is conditional on winning the Cup or making it to the finals.

 

[EddieTheEagle]

Kane does not look very impressive so far this year. I’m starting to think the return on a Kane trade could be underwhelming.

On the other hand, Toews could get more in a trade then what I was thinking. He has been surprisingly productive.

I'm not concerned with Kane's perceived value. I don't think any GM in the league would look at the start of this season and be worried about Patty. They know who he is. They've seen him sauce pucks through their defense. It's Patrick Kane. The guy. Return will exceed Giroux last year.

I am hornily hoping for a 2023 1st from NYR (either DAL or NYRs, whichever is later) and then Laf or Kakko and a cap dump, in exchange for Kaner. Long shot? Of course.

The reason I am hoping we can get one of them is that I think NYR knows they don't have room for Laf/Kakko past next season. Laf is already due a raise this offseason. Also, they've committed so heavily to Panarin, Kreider, Zibby, and Trochek. Laf/Kak may want a larger role than what they've been getting under Gallant. Free one of these souls and release them to Chicago! Kane could even take a friendly deal and stay in NY...

 

[Hattrick Kane]

I'm not concerned with Kane's perceived value. I don't think any GM in the league would look at the start of this season and be worried about Patty. They know who he is. They've seen him sauce pucks through their defense. It's Patrick Kane. The guy. Return will exceed Giroux last year.

I am hornily hoping for a 2023 1st from NYR (either DAL or NYRs, whichever is later) and then Laf or Kakko and a cap dump, in exchange for Kaner. Long shot? Of course.

The reason I am hoping we can get one of them is that I think NYR knows they don't have room for Laf/Kakko past next season. Laf is already due a raise this offseason. Also, they've committed so heavily to Panarin, Kreider, Zibby, and Trochek. Laf/Kak may want a larger role than what they've been getting under Gallant. Free one of these souls and release them to Chicago! Kane could even take a friendly deal and stay in NY...

They won’t give up Kakko or Laf. The guy you target is Othmann

 

[EddieTheEagle]

They won’t give up Kakko or Laf. The guy you target is Othmann

Othmann is why I think they may give up Kakko or Laf. They have a three year window of ELC for Othmann to bring what one of those guys brought. Laf/Kak are going to want $$$ that NYR may not have.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Othmann is why I think they may give up Kakko or Laf. They have a three year window of ELC for Othmann to bring what one of those guys brought. Laf/Kak are going to want $$$ that NYR may not have.

The way they’re playing right now, neither of them deserve big raises.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Kane does not look very impressive so far this year. I’m starting to think the return on a Kane trade could be underwhelming.

On the other hand, Toews could get more in a trade then what I was thinking. He has been surprisingly productive.

He's a notorious slow starter.

 

[hawksrule]

Othmann is why I think they may give up Kakko or Laf. They have a three year window of ELC for Othmann to bring what one of those guys brought. Laf/Kak are going to want $$$ that NYR may not have.

Kak has 61 points in 168 games, and this season 3 in 11. I’d take him as a sweetener but not as a primary piece.

 

[EddieTheEagle]

Kak has 61 points in 168 games, and this season 3 in 11. I’d take him as a sweetener but not as a primary piece.

Even more reason the Rangers would do it. I feel like Kakko could still break out with a bigger role, PP time, etc.

 

[Giovi]

Even more reason the Rangers would do it. I feel like Kakko could still break out with a bigger role, PP time, etc.

You obviously subscribe to the Stan Bowman trade philosophy. Trade for other teams failing prospects because you're certain you can somehow turn them around.

 

[BHawk21]

He's a notorious slow starter.

Who Kane?

First dozen games of each season

2021 - 17 points
2020- 15 points
2019- 10 points
2018- 18 points
2017- 12 points
2016- 15 points
2015- 16 points
2014- 8 points
2013- 11 points
2012-18 points
2011- 12 points
2010- 11 points
2009- 10 points
2008- 15 points
2007- 16 points

1.13ppg first 12
1.06ppg career

Toews on the other hand is for sure a slow starter.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Who Kane?

First dozen games of each season

2021 - 17 points
2020- 15 points
2019- 10 points
2018- 18 points
2017- 12 points
2016- 15 points
2015- 16 points
2014- 8 points
2013- 11 points
2012-18 points
2011- 12 points
2010- 11 points
2009- 10 points
2008- 15 points
2007- 16 points

1.13ppg first 12
1.06ppg career

Toews on the other hand is for sure a slow starter.

Eh, fair enough. But from my memory, he always starts relatively slowly, then ramps it up once they start getting into the season more. Even looking at your data above, he's got just as many seasons under 15 points in his first 12, as over. He has like 5 seasons where he has over 15, 3 seasons with exactly 15, and 7 seasons under 15 points in his first 12. He doesn't exactly light the world on fire in the beginning of every season. Hence why I said he starts relatively slowly. His best production seems to come mid-season and down the stretch towards the playoffs. Don't feel like going to find all the numbers right now, though. Just going off memory.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Eh, fair enough. But from my memory, he always starts relatively slowly, then ramps it up once they start getting into the season more. Even looking at your data above, he's got just as many seasons under 15 points in his first 12, as over. He has like 5 seasons where he has over 15, 3 seasons with exactly 15, and 7 seasons under 15 points in his first 12. He doesn't exactly light the world on fire in the beginning of every season. Hence why I said he starts relatively slowly. His best production seems to come mid-season and down the stretch towards the playoffs. Don't feel like going to find all the numbers right now, though. Just going off memory.

15 in 12 is a 103 point pace. What's setting the world on fire?

 

[ChiHawks10]

15 in 12 is a 103 point pace. What's setting the world on fire?

Wasn't arguing that 15 in 12 is a low number. I was just saying that he seems to have just as many seasons with lower point totals early on, as he does higher point totals. I was just using 15 as the middle ground based on his year-to-year points over his first dozen games.

I 100% could be wrong, but I've always thought he had kind of a reputation as being a slower starter, before he really starts to go off. Doesn't matter, though. Either way, my main point with that slow starter comment was that Kane is probably the last person to worry about on this team. He's got 10 in 10 right now, and someone was complaining about his production. He'll be fine.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Wasn't arguing that 15 in 12 is a low number. I was just saying that he seems to have just as many seasons with lower point totals early on, as he does higher point totals. I was just using 15 as the middle ground based on his year-to-year points over his first dozen games.

I 100% could be wrong, but I've always thought he had kind of a reputation as being a slower starter, before he really starts to go off.

I'd argue that if your middle ground is a 103 point pace calling him a notoriously slow starter is wrong.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I'd argue that if your middle ground is a 103 point pace calling him a notoriously slow starter is wrong.

I admitted as much, no?

Eh, fair enough. But from my memory, he always starts relatively slowly, then ramps it up once they start getting into the season more. Even looking at your data above, he's got just as many seasons under 15 points in his first 12, as over. He has like 5 seasons where he has over 15, 3 seasons with exactly 15, and 7 seasons under 15 points in his first 12. He doesn't exactly light the world on fire in the beginning of every season. Hence why I said he starts relatively slowly. His best production seems to come mid-season and down the stretch towards the playoffs. Don't feel like going to find all the numbers right now, though. Just going off memory.