Part 2- 2015 Draft - or ALL prior draft discussion here

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Sweeney was overlord of the Providence Bruins in 2014-15 who played Friday- Sunday.

The CHL pretty played same nights.

unless Sweeney is a wizard with floo powder and access to a fire place at TD Garden to transport himself to Alberta, Quebec, and Ontario I don’t see how he watched these guys in person or as they played live.

Seems obvious to me the only guy he might have saw live was JFK at the Beanpot.

likely Sweeney sat there not knowing a heck of a lot about CHL high picks taken Zboril & Lauzon (Q), DeBrusk, Carlo, Gabreille (dub) and Senyshyn (OHL) and relied on those that did as wonderfully shown on Behind the B for those who have access to NESN

this clearly didn’t sit well as the 2016 draft the CHL was put on double secret probation and Gretzky left to join Oilers Czar Peter Chiarelli.
Sweeney did a 180 and went heavy on college, BCHL (Bradley area) and Europe (Svensson & Axelsson). McAvoy Freddy, & Lindgren all plucked from USA hockey & college bound

It’s really not hard to understand and everyone reading what I write should be thanking me for this information

I also work a full time job with some on call work. It does not involve hockey in the slightest. I find time to spend time with family as well.

I have nowhere near the resources a GM of an original 6 team would have to get info about prospects.

It would take something special to convince me that Senyshyn/Debrusk were the plays to make on draft day.

 

[Babajingo]

Apart from people in our organization actually believing that DeBrusk and Senyshyn were better players than Barzal and Connor, I still can't wrap my head around the Hamilton return. I don't see any reason why Mirtle would lie about Sweeney being offered "much higher" 1sts than 15th overall for Hamilton. Friedman wrote that things were close with Colorado, who had the 10th pick, so that was likely one of the "much higher" offers. It's possible Colorado didn't want to give up any 2nd rounders, as Sweeney was OBSESSED with getting as many 2nd rounders as possible on BTB.

CBJ fans were convinced that they offered up the 8th pick. Aaron Portzline (CBJ writer) wrote the following:

I would just love to know what higher picks were offered for Dougie.

Doesn't matter. Sweeny would've still picked Senyshyn. Still thinking he was smarter than the rest.

 

[Babajingo]

Horrible drafting by GM. If you want to say they weren't bad picks and the players were mismanaged. Guess what? the GM is in charge of that too.
But after drafting the first two and then not shopping #15 around is a crime. For gods sake, swap 15 to the Isles at 28 and have them throw in a 2nd rounder or something. You can bet they would've done it seeing Barzal and Connor still on the board. And you could pick golden boy Senyshyn at 28.

 

[Over the volcano]

Apart from people in our organization actually believing that DeBrusk and Senyshyn were better players than Barzal and Connor, I still can't wrap my head around the Hamilton return. I don't see any reason why Mirtle would lie about Sweeney being offered "much higher" 1sts than 15th overall for Hamilton. Friedman wrote that things were close with Colorado, who had the 10th pick, so that was likely one of the "much higher" offers. It's possible Colorado didn't want to give up any 2nd rounders, as Sweeney was OBSESSED with getting as many 2nd rounders as possible on BTB.

CBJ fans were convinced that they offered up the 8th pick. Aaron Portzline (CBJ writer) wrote the following:

I would just love to know what higher picks were offered for Dougie.

Well they did better with the second round picks than the first so I guess it all worked out. Besides if they picked earlier you know they were going Crouse

 

[MattFromFranklin]

Well they did better with the second round picks than the first so I guess it all worked out. Besides if they picked earlier you know they were going Crouse

Fenway posted that he was told by someone in the bubble the Bruins thought Crouse was still on the board by the time they went up to pick. He said when Crouse was taken someone at the Bruins table clicked Barzal's name as being taken by accident.

If true, I'd love to see the BTB footage of Neely losing it when the scouts had Crouse lower on the list. Given that he loves big guys with limited offensive upside, he probably had to be held back by multiple people before confronting Gretzky.

 

[Blowfish]

Yes we remain upset with the dummies at the draft table in 2015.

 

[Dr Hook]

Yes we remain upset with the dummies at the draft table in 2015.

How long do you reckon this goes on? We are coming up on 7 years now.

 

[RoccoF14]

How long do you reckon this goes on? We are coming up on 7 years now.

Well, on the bright side, at least the thread about the Seguin trade has finally died.......

What do you think about resuscitating that one, and adding a thread about the Thornton trade? Any takers?

 

[Blowfish]

How long do you reckon this goes on? We are coming up on 7 years now.

When those players are no longer effective or playing for the bruins (when still effective). Something like that.

It's bad dude. This team would have been basking in the sun with All star quality players and us fans would be set for extended hockey glory now and the future if were not for that stupidity.

 

[Dr Hook]

When those players are no longer effective or playing for the bruins (when still effective). Something like that.

It's bad dude. This team would have been basking in the sun with All star quality players and us fans would be set for extended hockey glory now and the future if were not for that stupidity.

Or none of that could have happened. There is really no way to know with all the moving parts involved and now the passage of a pretty extensive length of time. But if you want to keep on being bothered by it, fair enough, but I can't let a bad draft 7 years ago ruin my enjoyment of Bruins hockey. There are plenty of other things that are far more recent to upset that

 

[Blowfish]

Or none of that could have happened. There is really no way to know with all the moving parts involved and now the passage of a pretty extensive length of time. But if you want to keep on being bothered by it, fair enough, but I can't let a bad draft 7 years ago ruin my enjoyment of Bruins hockey. There are plenty of other things that are far more recent to upset that

No worries. I will survive however this is a minor irritant in my life...and I have a few lol...

BTW I take my chances with the obvious 2015 moving parts versus the existing moving parts we have today . Hence why many here won't let it go. Dummies blew it big time!

 

[Dicky113]

How long do you reckon this goes on? We are coming up on 7 years now.

Until Don Sweeney is fired

 

[MattFromFranklin]

How long do you reckon this goes on? We are coming up on 7 years now.

I think many people, including myself, would quit bringing it up if those were complicit in the abomination that was the 2015 1st round were held accountable and fired. Don Sweeney, Dean Malkoc, Cam Neely, and Scott Bradley.

What happened that night continues to relate to this year's squad. This is likely the last year of the window. If Sweeney were as smart as he actually thinks he is, or at the very least if he told Dean Malkoc to lay off the drugs and overruled him, the window would be much longer and the future would be much brighter. Not to mention, the idiocy at our draft table that night and not taking Barzal and Connor likely cost us the 2019 cup.

There is no hindsight with that 1st round. DeBrusk and Senyshyn are good kids who work hard, but they never should've been with this franchise to begin with. They had no business going in the 13-15 range. Senyshyn was seen as a mid-2nd rounder and was 40th on the aggregate of reputable lists. He was picked 25-30 spots too early. DeBrusk was seen as a late 1st rounder and was 26th on the aggregate of the reputable lists. He went 10-15 spots before he was supposed to. It's not their fault, though.

Jake DeBrusk's Rankings: 25 (RLR), 27 (ISS, FC), 28 (TSN, THN, HP)
Average Ranking: 27.2 (26th overall on the aggregate)

Zach Senyshyn's Rankings: 39 (ISS), 40 (TSN), 42 (FC), 46 (RLR), 47 (THN), 57 (HP)
Average Ranking: 45.2 (40th overall on the aggregate)

Mathew Barzal's Rankings: 8 (ISS), 9 (TSN, RLR, FC), 10 (THN), 12 (HP)
Average Ranking: 9.5 (10th overall on the aggregate)

Kyle Connor's Rankings: 5 (HP), 11 (THN), 12 (FC), 13 (TSN, ISS), 26 (RLR)
Average Ranking: 13.3 (12th overall on the aggregate)

 

[Dr Hook]

I think many people, including myself, would quit bringing it up if those were complicit in the abomination that was the 2015 1st round were held accountable and fired. Don Sweeney, Dean Malkoc, Cam Neely, and Scott Bradley.

What happened that night continues to relate to this year's squad. This is likely the last year of the window. If Sweeney were as smart as he actually thinks he is, or at the very least if he told Dean Malkoc to lay off the drugs and overruled him, the window would be much longer and the future would be much brighter. Not to mention, the idiocy at our draft table that night and not taking Barzal and Connor likely cost us the 2019 cup.

There is no hindsight with that 1st round. DeBrusk and Senyshyn are good kids who work hard, but they never should've been with this franchise to begin with. They had no business going in the 13-15 range. Senyshyn was seen as a mid-2nd rounder and was 40th on the aggregate of reputable lists. He was picked 25-30 spots too early. DeBrusk was seen as a late 1st rounder and was 26th on the aggregate of the reputable lists. He went 10-15 spots before he was supposed to. It's not their fault, though.

Jake DeBrusk's Rankings: 25 (RLR), 27 (ISS, FC), 28 (TSN, THN, HP)
Average Ranking: 27.2 (26th overall on the aggregate)

Zach Senyshyn's Rankings: 39 (ISS), 40 (TSN), 42 (FC), 46 (RLR), 47 (THN), 57 (HP)
Average Ranking: 45.2 (40th overall on the aggregate)

Mathew Barzal's Rankings: 8 (ISS), 9 (TSN, RLR, FC), 10 (THN), 12 (HP)
Average Ranking: 9.5 (10th overall on the aggregate)

Kyle Connor's Rankings: 5 (HP), 11 (THN), 12 (FC), 13 (TSN, ISS), 26 (RLR)
Average Ranking: 13.3 (12th overall on the aggregate)

I get where you are coming from, I sincerely do. But I also know that contained within the assertions that the Bruins would have won a cup, or extended a Cup window, based on a single draft, are a shitload of assumptions that can neither be proven or disproven. Was it a bad draft year? Absolutely. But it was one draft and several years ago now. And like I said above, if you want to let it continue to disrupt your enjoyment of Bruins hockey, that's your choice, but if even you are 100% right about everything here, it's done and over with.

There has been turnover in the scouting staff since then, and by a significant margin. There have been changes to the player development staff as well. I think the club knows they squandered a great opportunity there. I wouldn't hold my breath hoping that Sweeney gets fired, because I don't think that's likely unless the teams misses the playoffs for a couple straight seasons, and whatever they did in 2015, they are better than that. If Sweeney stays, then Cam is staying too. So we just have to keep on supporting our team and hope for better.

 

[Blowfish]

I get where you are coming from, I sincerely do. But I also know that contained within the assertions that the Bruins would have won a cup, or extended a Cup window, based on a single draft, are a shitload of assumptions that can neither be proven or disproven. Was it a bad draft year? Absolutely. But it was one draft and several years ago now. And like I said above, if you want to let it continue to disrupt your enjoyment of Bruins hockey, that's your choice, but if even you are 100% right about everything here, it's done and over with.

There has been turnover in the scouting staff since then, and by a significant margin. There have been changes to the player development staff as well. I think the club knows they squandered a great opportunity there. I wouldn't hold my breath hoping that Sweeney gets fired, because I don't think that's likely unless the teams misses the playoffs for a couple straight seasons, and whatever they did in 2015, they are better than that. If Sweeney stays, then Cam is staying too. So we just have to keep on supporting our team and hope for better.

Let me ask you this, do you agree the team would be better today with Connor and Barzal versus Senyshyn and Debrusk? Passage of time or not, the team would be absolutely better.

Zboril wasn't much of a reach so leave him out of the discussion.

BTW it's far from disrupting my enjoyment of the bruins (as you keep saying).

 

[Dr Hook]

Let me ask you this, do you agree the team would be better today with Connor and Barzal versus Senyshyn and Debrusk? Passage of time or not, the team would be absolutely better.

Zboril wasn't much of a reach so leave him out of the discussion.

BTW it's far from disrupting my enjoyment of the bruins (as you keep saying).

Well clearly you know the answer to that (assuming either gets the same opportunities and development track here in Boston, and no one gets injured etc etc), but it was still just one bad draft, not something to keep moaning about for years. But that's fine. I am out of this thread- I knew better than to post here to start with. You guys need to have your place to vent about this without polluting other threads and if I don't agree with you, I don't need to be posting in here

 

[Blowfish]

Well clearly you know the answer to that (assuming either gets the same opportunities and development track here in Boston, and no one gets injured etc etc), but it was still just one bad draft, not something to keep moaning about for years. But that's fine. I am out of this thread- I knew better than to post here to start with. You guys need to have your place to vent about this without polluting other threads and if I don't agree with you, I don't need to be posting in here

That's the point it is very clear..but yes I love this thread as it allows me to vent! No worries Hook. Just some friendly banter.

 

[MattFromFranklin]

I get where you are coming from, I sincerely do. But I also know that contained within the assertions that the Bruins would have won a cup, or extended a Cup window, based on a single draft, are a shitload of assumptions that can neither be proven or disproven. Was it a bad draft year? Absolutely. But it was one draft and several years ago now. And like I said above, if you want to let it continue to disrupt your enjoyment of Bruins hockey, that's your choice, but if even you are 100% right about everything here, it's done and over with.

There has been turnover in the scouting staff since then, and by a significant margin. There have been changes to the player development staff as well. I think the club knows they squandered a great opportunity there. I wouldn't hold my breath hoping that Sweeney gets fired, because I don't think that's likely unless the teams misses the playoffs for a couple straight seasons, and whatever they did in 2015, they are better than that. If Sweeney stays, then Cam is staying too. So we just have to keep on supporting our team and hope for better.

The issue is that at the time it was viewed by many with functioning brains in the hockey community as an extremely deep draft and we had 3 selections in the top 15 and essentially whiffed on all 3 picks. Quite a few said it was the deepest since 2003. DeBrusk is technically a "hit," but that's nothing to brag about considering that Barzal and Connor are not only vastly superior players now, but were vastly superior players at the time of the draft. Dean Malkoc, who Dom said was the driver behind the 3 1st round selections, is still here. Ryan Nadeau, who was also here at the time, is still here as a scout.

This franchise will never have the opportunity to pick with 3 selections in the top 15 of a loaded 1st round ever again. You swap out DeBrusk and Senyshyn for Barzal and Connor and the team is not only much better right now but has a much longer window. Depth scoring is still a big issue with this team. That 1st round will be a big reason why Sweeney gets canned in the next 2-3 years when the team either has to rebuild or Sweeney once again whiffs on FA signings with the cap space previously occupied by Bergeron, Moore, and Foligno.

 

[Dr Hook]

The issue is that at the time it was viewed by many with functioning brains in the hockey community as an extremely deep draft and we had 3 selections in the top 15 and essentially whiffed on all 3 picks. Quite a few said it was the deepest since 2003. DeBrusk is technically a "hit," but that's nothing to brag about considering that Barzal and Connor are not only vastly superior players now, but were vastly superior players at the time of the draft. Dean Malkoc, who Dom said was the driver behind the 3 1st round selections, is still here. Ryan Nadeau, who was also here at the time, is still here as a scout.

This franchise will never have the opportunity to pick with 3 selections in the top 15 of a loaded 1st round ever again. You swap out DeBrusk and Senyshyn for Barzal and Connor and the team is not only much better right now but has a much longer window. Depth scoring is still a big issue with this team. That 1st round will be a big reason why Sweeney gets canned in the next 2-3 years when the team either has to rebuild or Sweeney once again whiffs on FA signings with the cap space previously occupied by Bergeron, Moore, and Foligno.

I am not defending that draft, not now after Jake has regressed and Seny is pretty much a bust for where he was picked- him being a good bottom 6 guy somewhere is not a win in my view, but it wont even be here, and that makes it worse. But as I said to Blowfish, my bad for posting in here to start with since I am not bugged by it anymore but different strokes for different folks and you guys should have your space to beat this horse for as long as you want

 

[McGarnagle]

I get where you are coming from, I sincerely do. But I also know that contained within the assertions that the Bruins would have won a cup, or extended a Cup window, based on a single draft, are a shitload of assumptions that can neither be proven or disproven. Was it a bad draft year? Absolutely. But it was one draft and several years ago now. And like I said above, if you want to let it continue to disrupt your enjoyment of Bruins hockey, that's your choice, but if even you are 100% right about everything here, it's done and over with.

There has been turnover in the scouting staff since then, and by a significant margin. There have been changes to the player development staff as well. I think the club knows they squandered a great opportunity there. I wouldn't hold my breath hoping that Sweeney gets fired, because I don't think that's likely unless the teams misses the playoffs for a couple straight seasons, and whatever they did in 2015, they are better than that. If Sweeney stays, then Cam is staying too. So we just have to keep on supporting our team and hope for better.

There's too much butterfly effect to really definitively state they would've/wouldn't have fared better in other years.

If they have Connor and/or Barzal in the lineup, does Sweeney need to trade for Coyle and/or Johansson in 2019? And do they still make that run? Etc.

The one I always go back to as being almost 100% sure it cost us at least one cup between 2010 and 2014 is drafting Hamill over Couture. But even then, what would his presence in the system have prompted Chiarelli to do, does he still acquire Kelly, make the Wheeler/Peverly deal, does he get Jagr in 2013 or go a different strategy? Trade Seguin earlier, later? You can never tell. And then there's the series of reconstructed possibilities where one player being on the ice at a certain point in time instead of another one perhaps results in that player getting injured when they otherwise wouldn't have.

So you can never say definitively one way or the other. But you can make that argument that the chances of success would be greatly improved, just not guaranteed.

 

[Fenian24]

How long do you reckon this goes on? We are coming up on 7 years now.

Next Cup win, so 39 more years

 

[Dr Hook]

Next Cup win, so 39 more years

Oh Lord LOL I feel bad for you guys.

 

[MattFromFranklin]

There's too much butterfly effect to really definitively state they would've/wouldn't have fared better in other years.

If they have Connor and/or Barzal in the lineup, does Sweeney need to trade for Coyle and/or Johansson in 2019? And do they still make that run? Etc.

The one I always go back to as being almost 100% sure it cost us at least one cup between 2010 and 2014 is drafting Hamill over Couture. But even then, what would his presence in the system have prompted Chiarelli to do, does he still acquire Kelly, make the Wheeler/Peverly deal, does he get Jagr in 2013 or go a different strategy? Trade Seguin earlier, later? You can never tell. And then there's the series of reconstructed possibilities where one player being on the ice at a certain point in time instead of another one perhaps results in that player getting injured when they otherwise wouldn't have.

So you can never say definitively one way or the other. But you can make that argument that the chances of success would be greatly improved, just not guaranteed.

They could've kept Krejci until Barzal's ELC was up. Considering that Krejci and Bergeron missed over 30 games combined during Barzal's Calder-winning year and that Krejci was good, but not great, Barzal likely would've been the 2nd line center by the middle or latter part of that season. Krejci also could've been dealt that summer, as his name was reportedly on the block but Sweeney tried to unload Backes instead.

They also could've drafted DeBrincat the next year, like many on this board were calling for.

2017-2018
Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
Connor-Barzal-DeBrincat
Backes-Krejci-Heinen

In 2018-19 they likely would've made a move for MoJo as they would've needed a replacement for Backes, who was useless that season.

2018-2019
Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
Connor-Barzal-DeBrincat
Heinen-Krejci-MoJo

Even if they didn't draft DeBrincat as well, MoJo could've been easily been added to play with Barzal and Connor and Sweeney would've made another trade (or FA signing) to complete the 3rd line with Krejci and Heinen.

 

[Fenian24]

They could've kept Krejci until Barzal's ELC was up. Considering that Krejci and Bergeron missed over 30 games combined during Barzal's Calder-winning year and that Krejci was good, but not great, Barzal likely would've been the 2nd line center by the middle or latter part of that season. Krejci also could've been dealt that summer, as his name was reportedly on the block but Sweeney tried to unload Backes instead.

They also could've drafted DeBrincat the next year, like many on this board were calling for.

2017-2018
Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
Connor-Barzal-DeBrincat
Backes-Krejci-Heinen

In 2018-19 they likely would've made a move for MoJo as they would've needed a replacement for Backes, who was useless that season.

2018-2019
Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
Connor-Barzal-DeBrincat
Heinen-Krejci-MoJo

Even if they didn't draft DeBrincat as well, MoJo could've been easily been added to play with Barzal and Connor and Sweeney would've made another trade (or FA signing) to complete the 3rd line with Krejci and Heinen.

You were doing so good until the Heinen part.

 

[Blowfish]

And this disaster team all comes back to this day.