GDT: Panthers @ Avs | March 3rd 7 PM MST | Daily Press Edition

[Thepoolmaster]

The Avs losing the Corsi and winning the game I think is because when they do win they get an early lead and then pray that they can hold on.

I would like to see them push the play more in the third period. I think everyone does. It's not uncommon for teams to turtle but the Avs biggest problem is poor break outs leading to icings/turnovers keeping it in the zone longer than they should. Again nothing new there.

The Avs seem to rarely win when they win Corsi because they don't seem to get the late goal they need when they are pushing the play when they are down. They were really good at this in the year they won the central. The wild are also really good at this (why they always beat the Avs in the third period).

Hopefully this is something they improve on to push for the playoffs. If not to win those games at least get the loser points that the wild have.

 

[ArWKo]

I still don't understand the mentality or instruction this team is getting going into third periods and playing with leads. They were never really winning in possession last night, but in the first and second the clearly kept things respectably level and you could tell on the ice. The the third period comes around and it's an absolute horror show. We saw after MacK's penalty shot that they had some life in them still, and honestly it was probably the only reason (other than Picks) that they kept the Panthers off the board in that period.

I don't know if this is a mental issue with this team or if they're being coached to play this way, but whatever it is, it needs to end now.

They're the highest event team when leading by 1 (938 CA - All Situations, 744 CA - 5v5), the next closest in those stats are the Rangers (hey look, another team regularly bailed out by their goaltending).

In the 3rd period of all games, again Avs with the highest event-against numbers (1314 CA - All Situations, 988 - 5v5) next closest in the league in those categories are Edmonton (1241 CA All Situations) and Buffalo (945 CA 5v5) - not exactly teams you want to be in the company of.

Something HAS to give with this 3rd period/playing with a lead style that the Avs have. It's not even a matter of buying into Corsi as a main indicator of good or bad play - they have shown they can win game losing the possession battle and regardless of your thoughts of what that does or doesn't mean, it's clear from their 3rd period and leading by 1 numbers that this team just turtles when they are up or late in games.

It's for sure a recipe for disaster come playoffs if they can make it, and it certainly isn't helping them get there either.

 

[chet1926]

I still don't understand the mentality or instruction this team is getting going into third periods and playing with leads. They were never really winning in possession last night, but in the first and second the clearly kept things respectably level and you could tell on the ice. The the third period comes around and it's an absolute horror show. We saw after MacK's penalty shot that they had some life in them still, and honestly it was probably the only reason (other than Picks) that they kept the Panthers off the board in that period.

I don't know if this is a mental issue with this team or if they're being coached to play this way, but whatever it is, it needs to end now.

They're the highest event team when leading by 1 (938 CA - All Situations, 744 CA - 5v5), the next closest in those stats are the Rangers (hey look, another team regularly bailed out by their goaltending).

In the 3rd period of all games, again Avs with the highest event-against numbers (1314 CA - All Situations, 988 - 5v5) next closest in the league in those categories are Edmonton (1241 CA All Situations) and Buffalo (945 CA 5v5) - not exactly teams you want to be in the company of.

Something HAS to give with this 3rd period/playing with a lead style that the Avs have. It's not even a matter of buying into Corsi as a main indicator of good or bad play - they have shown they can win game losing the possession battle and regardless of your thoughts of what that does or doesn't mean, it's clear from their 3rd period and leading by 1 numbers that this team just turtles when they are up or late in games.

It's for sure a recipe for disaster come playoffs if they can make it, and it certainly isn't helping them get there either.

I can tell you exactly what the issue is when it comes to playing with a lead in the 3rd period. The Avs know they are a bad possession team and they know they pretty much have to play a perfect period to close it out. So what happens...the complete opposite of what should happen. They get nervous and uptight because no one wants to be that guy who screws up and costs the team. So basically everyone goes into super conservative mode and sits back and just lets whatever happen.

Good teams/winning teams just continue to play their game, they might be a little less concerned with pinching in from the points but for the most part they play their normal game. Because they know even if we happen to make a mistake, it's ok we'll just get it back. Plus they have confidence in each other that if a dman decides to pinch in in the offensive zone that a forward will rotate back to take his spot. They rely on each other to be responsible, something we can't do because any given play somebody will do something dumb and no one will cover for them.

Until the Avs realize it's just another period, and the only way to be successful is to just play that period like the other two, they're going to continue to struggle closing out games.

I think some of this also falls on Roy. I don't think he has the confidence that we will close out a game playing our game so he makes us go into shell mode where no one crosses center ice, if you have the puck you dump it in and retreat back to center ice. This puts no pressure on the other team, as they are free to exit their zone with speed making it difficult for our guys who are standing still at center ice to keep up.

We are stuck in a vicious cycle right now where, the coach doesn't trust us to finish a game playing our game (rightfully so as we shown that we like to blow it a lot), we have players that are too nervous/scared they are going to make a mistake which just makes them play worse, and on top of that we don't have the confidence that even if we screw up we'll figure out a way to get it back because no one this team is clutch. So right now we are kind of stuck when it comes to holding leads.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

I still don't understand the mentality or instruction this team is getting going into third periods and playing with leads. They were never really winning in possession last night, but in the first and second the clearly kept things respectably level and you could tell on the ice. The the third period comes around and it's an absolute horror show. We saw after MacK's penalty shot that they had some life in them still, and honestly it was probably the only reason (other than Picks) that they kept the Panthers off the board in that period.

I don't know if this is a mental issue with this team or if they're being coached to play this way, but whatever it is, it needs to end now.

They're the highest event team when leading by 1 (938 CA - All Situations, 744 CA - 5v5), the next closest in those stats are the Rangers (hey look, another team regularly bailed out by their goaltending).

In the 3rd period of all games, again Avs with the highest event-against numbers (1314 CA - All Situations, 988 - 5v5) next closest in the league in those categories are Edmonton (1241 CA All Situations) and Buffalo (945 CA 5v5) - not exactly teams you want to be in the company of.

Something HAS to give with this 3rd period/playing with a lead style that the Avs have. It's not even a matter of buying into Corsi as a main indicator of good or bad play - they have shown they can win game losing the possession battle and regardless of your thoughts of what that does or doesn't mean, it's clear from their 3rd period and leading by 1 numbers that this team just turtles when they are up or late in games.

It's for sure a recipe for disaster come playoffs if they can make it, and it certainly isn't helping them get there either.

After the game in Roy's press conference he said he was not happy with the 3rd period and basically said the team has to learn how to play with a lead and that they don't perform well yet when they have a lead in the 3rd.

If the coaching staff was instructing the players to sit back and go into a shell and play conservatively he would not have shown the dissatisfaction he showed. At least in last night's game, and I suspect in all games like last night, the players are the ones that are going into a shell and playing to not lose instead of playing to win.

 

[tigervixxxen]

In the 3rd when they miraculously get the puck they don't even try to keep it, they just try to get a scoring chance and turn it right back over. Of course they don't want to play this way but it's like they don't know how to counter balance another team's push it momentum.

 

[Freudian]

I think it's clear that the instructions to the players when defending a lead is to get the puck deep and keep shifts short. But you can't play that way for 20 minutes. It's just an endless siege. Especially if the team is afraid to stand up in the neutral zone and at the blue line. It's just wave after wave coming at you.

I thought Avs played fairly well the last five minutes but the fifteen before that were terrible. You can't give up any ambition to possess the puck.

Avs did have some good chances (MacKinnon penalty shot, Duchene/Iginla 2 on 1 and Mitchell with a chance on a 3 on 2) but Luongo bailed Florida out. If Avs score one of those, perhaps it looks different.

 

[Metallo]

Hmm

So we played a washed up injured Tanguay instead of calling up Rantanen?

 

[Metallo]

After the game in Roy's press conference he said he was not happy with the 3rd period and basically said the team has to learn how to play with a lead and that they don't perform well yet when they have a lead in the 3rd.

If the coaching staff was instructing the players to sit back and go into a shell and play conservatively he would not have shown the dissatisfaction he showed. At least in last night's game, and I suspect in all games like last night, the players are the ones that are going into a shell and playing to not lose instead of playing to win.

Patty, for them to learn you have to teach. They may be dumb but you have to teach them nonetheless.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

I think it's clear that the instructions to the players when defending a lead is to get the puck deep and keep shifts short. But you can't play that way for 20 minutes. It's just an endless siege. Especially if the team is afraid to stand up in the neutral zone and at the blue line. It's just wave after wave coming at you.

I thought Avs played fairly well the last five minutes but the fifteen before that were terrible. You can't give up any ambition to possess the puck.

Avs did have some good chances (MacKinnon penalty shot, Duchene/Iginla 2 on 1 and Mitchell with a chance on a 3 on 2) but Luongo bailed Florida out. If Avs score one of those, perhaps it looks different.

There's nothing wrong with getting the puck deep and keeping shifts short. Just because they get the puck deep doesn't mean they can't forecheck and keep the pressure on while cycling out the players every 30 seconds.

The problem with the Avs is turning the puck over time and time and time again in their own zone and through the neutral zone. Rather than make a decent breakout pass and getting the puck deep in our O-zone the Avs want to chip it out of their D-zone when they get a lead and frequently they chip it right to the opposing team either in our own D-zone or in the neutral zone. The opposition ends up keeping the puck in the Avs D-zone for extended periods of time and the Avs end up with a tired group of 5 skaters that get hemmed in their D-zone, they can't defend well, and shot after shot after shot on net occurs and eventually good scoring chances against.

The key is to get the puck out of the D-zone quickly and transition to the attack zone so they don't get a barrage of shots against. Getting the puck in deep and forechecking is a great way to keep the pressure on the opposition instead of them keeping the puck in our zone all the time.

 

[the_fan]

The Avs won? Great, let me check the goaltender stats: .950 save%. Ah, yes - like clockwork. The only way this team wins hockey games is if they get spectacular goaltending.

Anyway, liked the first period, 2nd was meh, 3rd was Pickard. Happy to have the two points.

I think the Avs have the most basic system or should we just call it "have goalie bail us out" system.

If anyone wondered what system Avs use, its simple. Rely on goaltending, break out of the zone anyway you can (nothing set) go score goals, that's pretty much it. As far as defense goes, it's block shots at any cost... again, nothing set.

Another words this team is playing more like beer league hockey than NHL

 

[AvsGuy]

lol I only saw highlights from this game, what in the holy gravy happened in that 3rd period

 

[hoserthehorrible]

Patty, for them to learn you have to teach. They may be dumb but you have to teach them nonetheless.

Maybe the coaching staff isn't teaching the players well enough but they are definitely not instructing the team to sit back, play conservatively, turn the puck over time and time again, and let the goalie stop 24 shots in the 3rd period.

There's a big difference between not being able to get your players to execute the game plan properly and just flat out giving them a horrible game plan. The mentality around these boards is that the Avs coaching staff has the wrong strategy and it's the coaching staff that needs a better system vs the players executing better.

 

[Metallo]

Maybe the coaching staff isn't teaching the players well enough but they are definitely not instructing the team to sit back, play conservatively, turn the puck over time and time again, and let the goalie stop 24 shots in the 3rd period.

There's a big difference between not being able to get your players to execute the game plan properly and just flat out giving them a horrible game plan. The mentality around these boards is that the Avs coaching staff has the wrong strategy and it's the coaching staff that needs a better system vs the players executing better.

Good coaching is more detailed oriented than the overall strategy. You have to teach team and individual tactics. I'm not sure they teach that much.

Lemaire could take a bunch of glorifed AHLers and make them play a proper system and have a sound defensive structure. I want some of that (not Lemaire but structure).

 

[hoserthehorrible]

Good coaching is more detailed oriented than the overall strategy. You have to teach team and individual tactics. I'm not sure they teach that much.

Lemaire could take a bunch of glorifed AHLers and make them play a proper system and have a sound defensive structure. I want some of that (not Lemaire but structure).

Have you been to many Avs practices? Roy and the coaching staff are constantly providing individual instructions to players all the time. Not only do they have individual skills drills but during team strategy drills they blow the whistle and stop the play all the time to provide individual instructions on what the player should have done differently.

The team employs a pretty decent goalie coach that provides individual coaching to each goalie. The team employs a coach that runs the defense and also has another guy, Adam Foote - perhaps you've heard of him, to work with the D-men individually on their skills, techniques, and overall games.

There's a number of young guys that are learning to play the game the right way and they haven't completely figured it out yet. Duchene may never figure it out. MacKinnon may never figure it out. Barrie may never figure it out. if this is all true it's not because the coaching staff doesn't know what to do or isn't trying to teach them the right way.

 

[henchman21]

So we played a washed up injured Tanguay instead of calling up Rantanen?

You have to think at this point that they are wanting the extra ELC year more than anything else.

 

[AvsFanRCN]

Have you been to many Avs practices? Roy and the coaching staff are constantly providing individual instructions to players all the time. Not only do they have individual skills drills but during team strategy drills they blow the whistle and stop the play all the time to provide individual instructions on what the player should have done differently.

The team employs a pretty decent goalie coach that provides individual coaching to each goalie. The team employs a coach that runs the defense and also has another guy, Adam Foote - perhaps you've heard of him, to work with the D-men individually on their skills, techniques, and overall games.

There's a number of young guys that are learning to play the game the right way and they haven't completely figured it out yet. Duchene may never figure it out. MacKinnon may never figure it out. Barrie may never figure it out. if this is all true it's not because the coaching staff doesn't know what to do or isn't trying to teach them the right way.

I think Holden is a good example that there is some good instruction going on in practices, at least on the defence side of things. Personally I haven't been to or watched any practices since I live in BC, but I wouldn't be surprised if Foote is the reason his game has improved from "why is he even on this team" bad from last year, to, "hey, Holden is actually a decent second pairing defender" this year.

 

[Freudian]

The Panthers broadcast said that Roy was laying into the players during a break in the third, so obviously he wasn't happy with how they were playing and I don't think anyone thinks Roy want them to play this passive with a lead.

But coaching/systems is also about teaching the players how to support each other with or without the puck. If the players know what to do in every situation, it's much easier to hang on to a lead and we don't get these situations where the players just play hot potato with the puck.

 

[Pokecheque]

Patty, for them to learn you have to teach. They may be dumb but you have to teach them nonetheless.

Yup.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Landy's shoulder was never hurt. It was just the main focus of an upcoming magazine photoshoot so he wasn't willing to use it.

No chill at all lol

 

[hoserthehorrible]

The Panthers broadcast said that Roy was laying into the players during a break in the third, so obviously he wasn't happy with how they were playing and I don't think anyone thinks Roy want them to play this passive with a lead.

But coaching/systems is also about teaching the players how to support each other with or without the puck. If the players know what to do in every situation, it's much easier to hang on to a lead and we don't get these situations where the players just play hot potato with the puck.

You can tell a player a hundred times what to do in each situation but in the heat of the game the players are the ones that are making split decisions. Some guys make great decisions, some don't. Some guys learn to make great decisions through time and experience and coaching. Some simply never figure it out.

If you watch the Avs practices you'll see they are constantly instructing the players what to do in various situations and trying to get them to learn the game at the highest level. Some are making progress faster than others. Some aren't.

The coaching staff knows what to do in most, if not all situations. They're trying to teach the players to make the right decisions at the right time. Perhaps they aren't the greatest teachers, perhaps they are, that's not the point I'm trying to make.

The Coaches are definitely NOT instructing the team to sit back in the 3rd period, turn the puck over time after time after time, and let the opposing team throw 24 shots on goal in the 3rd period.

 

[S E P H]

Jagr was truly amazing last night, what he's able to still do, he looked like he was 30 instead of 44. His work ethic is outstanding and the main reason why he's in the position he's in. I can easily see him play at least two more years at his current pace. Perhaps one is probably going to be the ideal number, but depending on how much passion he has, two is not a hypothetical scenario. And depending on how much regresses, but if plays those two years at his current pace, I believe he can pass Gordie Howe for 2nd all time in goals as well.

As for the game, Avs looked good, but still another game where they can't play a full 60 minutes. It's perfectly acceptable to understand that Panthers had that desperate push, but a 20 minute penatly kill?! Come on now, that's unacceptable. We got some chances, but that was more in part of Florida going on all out attack than Avs generating themselves. I mentioned it during 2nd intermission, but man is Soderberg looking bad. Comeau didn't have a good game as well, and he has his faults, but he's had good games, Soderberg hasn't had one in about a month. We need him back on the PP, but I don't know if he deserves those minutes at his current form. As regards to the PP, I don't like Comeau on it, but I think Roy/Army see's Comeau as MacKinnon on that 2nd unit, where he can get a fast one timer off at the middle of the ice. Carl has an underrated release, but I think we can all agree here that Comeau has a better all-around shot.

Barrie looked great, but there are still some major flaws with him. One of them is he's trying out there to be physical in the corners. Dude it's just not working. I appreciate the effort, but his game has never once involved a physical checking aspect, he just doesn't have it. Instead of going in and trying to take the body, why doesn't he work on his stick work instead? It's a common misconception, but you don't need to be physical to be good, look at the Hawks and Keith in particular. I would like Barrie to use his stick more in terms of corner battles than going to take the body where he loses a lot of times. Sort of the skill we've seen from Bigras in his small sample size, Chris has been great in stealing and moving the puck in a flawless motion.

The other account I would like Barrie to work on is choosing his spots when jumping up. There were times in the third where we're with the lead and Barrie decides to bring out his inner Subban's "DGAF" and take it single-handily by himself....just to be caught. There were two really bad occasions that this happened in the third period alone. One of them resulted in a 2 on 1 where and thankfully Trocheck missed the net. Barrie needs to pick his spots better, you don't go ultra aggressive when there's 10 minutes left in the 3rd and your team is up a goal.

You know the Avs are a bad team, this is one of those games where Avs should have probably won 4-2, 5-2, or 3-1. They just don't know how to finish off teams, this was one of them that should have resulted in multiple goal lead, but came to a one goal game AGAIN. Along with this, Avs biggest flaw in the defensive end is they puck watch too much. It's not just Holden or Comeau doing this, it's Landeskog, it's Beauchemin, it's EJ Johnson, and it's MacKinnon. Actually going through games, Avs last multiple goal game happened against the Oilers where they got a fluke hand pass goal on February 20th. But Avs last "true" multiple game win was against the Star on the 23rd of January. A game where we got out shot 43 to 15. As for being out shot, rather get the two points than win the corsi with zero results as the Avs have been doing the last week. Even if it come with **** hockey, better than seeing your goalers let in weak ones when the team plays well.

 

[ArWKo]

BSN at practice saying that Avs practicing zone exits and it's more "chips that a Super Bowl party" which is not greatly encouraging.

 

[chet1926]

Jagr was truly amazing last night, what he's able to still do, he looked like he was 30 instead of 44. His work ethic is outstanding and the main reason why he's in the position he's in. I can easily see him play at least two more years at his current pace. Perhaps one is probably going to be the ideal number, but depending on how much passion he has, two is not a hypothetical scenario. And depending on how much regresses, but if plays those two years at his current pace, I believe he can pass Gordie Howe for 2nd all time in goals as well.

As for the game, Avs looked good, but still another game where they can't play a full 60 minutes. It's perfectly acceptable to understand that Panthers had that desperate push, but a 20 minute penatly kill?! Come on now, that's unacceptable. We got some chances, but that was more in part of Florida going on all out attack than Avs generating themselves. I mentioned it during 2nd intermission, but man is Soderberg looking bad. Comeau didn't have a good game as well, and he has his faults, but he's had good games, Soderberg hasn't had one in about a month. We need him back on the PP, but I don't know if he deserves those minutes at his current form. As regards to the PP, I don't like Comeau on it, but I think Roy/Army see's Comeau as MacKinnon on that 2nd unit, where he can get a fast one timer off at the middle of the ice. Carl has an underrated release, but I think we can all agree here that Comeau has a better all-around shot.

Barrie looked great, but there are still some major flaws with him. One of them is he's trying out there to be physical in the corners. Dude it's just not working. I appreciate the effort, but his game has never once involved a physical checking aspect, he just doesn't have it. Instead of going in and trying to take the body, why doesn't he work on his stick work instead? It's a common misconception, but you don't need to be physical to be good, look at the Hawks and Keith in particular. I would like Barrie to use his stick more in terms of corner battles than going to take the body where he loses a lot of times. Sort of the skill we've seen from Bigras in his small sample size, Chris has been great in stealing and moving the puck in a flawless motion.

The other account I would like Barrie to work on is choosing his spots when jumping up. There were times in the third where we're with the lead and Barrie decides to bring out his inner Subban's "DGAF" and take it single-handily by himself....just to be caught. There were two really bad occasions that this happened in the third period alone. One of them resulted in a 2 on 1 where and thankfully Trocheck missed the net. Barrie needs to pick his spots better, you don't go ultra aggressive when there's 10 minutes left in the 3rd and your team is up a goal.

You know the Avs are a bad team, this is one of those games where Avs should have probably won 4-2, 5-2, or 3-1. They just don't know how to finish off teams, this was one of them that should have resulted in multiple goal lead, but came to a one goal game AGAIN. Along with this, Avs biggest flaw in the defensive end is they puck watch too much. It's not just Holden or Comeau doing this, it's Landeskog, it's Beauchemin, it's EJ Johnson, and it's MacKinnon. Actually going through games, Avs last multiple goal game happened against the Oilers where they got a fluke hand pass goal on February 20th. But Avs last "true" multiple game win was against the Star on the 23rd of January. A game where we got out shot 43 to 15. As for being out shot, rather get the two points than win the corsi with zero results as the Avs have been doing the last week. Even if it come with **** hockey, better than seeing your goalers let in weak ones when the team plays well.

Got to agree with you on Jagr, the guy is unreal. Truly one of the 5 best players to play the game. Can you imagine if he hadn't had multiple lockouts and a 3 year KHL stint what his numbers would look like. I wish the Avs had brought him in instead of Iginla. Just look what he has done for young guys there. Barkov is a completely different player this year compared to seasons past. He could have been a great role model for MacK.

Also got to agree with you on the part us being a bad team. There is no reason we shouldn't have won by at least 2+ goals last night. Same problems plague us, no ability to step on a teams throats while they are down. We are in full control last night up 3 to 1, hadn't allowed a shot in 8 minutes, and our captain, of all people, leaves his point man completely uncovered to waltz in for an easy goal. Then immediately takes a tripping penalty 20 seconds later to put them on the PP. So basically we went from full control with them producing nothing, to giving up an easy goal and then giving them a PP to swing the momentum fully. And to top it off Barrie, another "core" player gets super lazy with 5 seconds left in the 2nd, takes a bad penalty to put them on the PP and give them momentum for a 3rd period push.

And to top the whole thing off despite playing like trash in the 3rd period, we get multiple odd man rushes and a penalty shot from one of our best players to try and build a 2 goal lead, and we get nothing. This team just has no ability to finish off a team. **** 1 goal makes it 4-2, we stop the bleeding and game is over.

Another disturbing trend is we can't blow teams out. Our most lopsided win since January 1 was a 4-1 win over LA or 3-0 game over NJ, but on the other hand we've lost games 4-0 to Calgary, 6-3 to Chicago, 4-0 to Tampa, 6-1 to San Jose, 4-1 to Buffalo, 5-1 to Vancouver. You can't always play one goal games with empty netters to pad the lead. You got to have some nights here and there where you just crush someone and get your players a little rest/and or a little mental break. Trying to grind out 1 goal games is not a recipe for success. All the good teams have nights where they just crush the other team, which allows them to get confidence and get their players some rest.

 

[dahrougem2]

BSN at practice saying that Avs practicing zone exits and it's more "chips that a Super Bowl party" which is not greatly encouraging.

It doesn't help when it seems like Bigras is the only player actively looking for a pass to a forward.

Beauchemin has become the new Hejda. I love how Beauch plays but he just rings pucks around the boards or fires them off the glass the second he can.

EJ either wants to flip it high up the middle, rifle a stretch pass down the ice or skate it.

Barrie wants to skate it first, skate it second, and then look to make a cross-ice pass third

Holden isn't ever fully sure if he actually has the puck, and if he does, you can bet he's going to either rifle it around the boards or try to skate it to the red line and maybe even further.

Bodnarchuk sucks.

Really, it's astonishing how this team is tied for a wild-card spot. We've played better hockey than this, but I find myself staring wide-eyed at the games whenever I see a clean breakout under pressure that doesn't involve the boards/glass/high flip. Actual passing from this team under pressure is extremely rare to see.

 

[Foppa2118]

Patty, for them to learn you have to teach. They may be dumb but you have to teach them nonetheless.

Yea cause the guy that spends almost the entire game talking to players after they come back from shifts, and motioning towards the ice, is just rambling in French about his glory days.