Proposal: Panarin's RFA rights for Victor Rask

[Hawksfan2828]

If you're talking to me, Panarin >> Rask: the problem is that it wrecks Carolina's center depth (Rask being the only young, talented center in their system) to get a guy who plays a position at which they already have talent, which they will then have to pay through the nose to keep.

In a vacuum, Carolina adds, but this isn't a vacuum....

I was just saying in general but.......

The Hawks have the same problem with Rask - where are we supposed to play him with Toews, Anisimov and Kruger down the middle?

I really don't see any deal involving Rask and Panarin working...

Even if it was Rask for Panarin Carolina would have to add a prospect and a 1st round pick. Then the value is there.

24 year old PPG players don't exactly grow on trees so if the Hawks cant sign Panarian (I think Bowman will get a deal done) there will be no shortage of teams being interested in trading for him.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I was just saying in general but.......

The Hawks have the same problem with Rask - where are we supposed to play him with Toews, Anisimov and Kruger down the middle?

I really don't see any deal involving Rask and Panarin working...

Even if it was Rask for Panarin Carolina would have to add a prospect and a 1st round pick. Then the value is there.

24 year old PPG players don't exactly grow on trees so if the Hawks cant sign Panarian (I think Bowman will get a deal done) there will be no shortage of teams being interested in trading for him.

I would see Rask playing on Toews wing, not as a center with the Hawks. Or if he stays at center, he pairs with Kane while Anisimove goes up with Toews.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

I would see Rask playing on Toews wing, not as a center with the Hawks. Or if he stays at center, he pairs with Kane while Anisimove goes up with Toews.

Well, the Canes would have to add more than Rask. Rask would have to be a starter.

I would do Rask and Faulk (50% retained) for Panarin.... Maybe.

Hanifin and Rask I would do... Maybe lol.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well, the Canes would have to add more than Rask. Rask would have to be a starter.

I would do Rask and Faulk (50% retained) for Panarin.... Maybe.

Ok, this thread has officially jumped the shark now.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Ok, this thread has officially jumped the shark now.

Well, you want a 24-year-old ppg player...

It's scary to think what Panarin could do when he's 26,27,28...

 

[GoldiFox]

Well, the Canes would have to add more than Rask. Rask would have to be a starter.

I would do Rask and Faulk (50% retained) for Panarin.... Maybe.

Hanifin and Rask I would do... Maybe lol.

Do we have a deal if the Canes throw in Hanifin and Aho?

I can't tell what is trolling and what is serious here anymore.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Do we have a deal if the Canes throw in Hanifin and Aho?

I can't tell what is trolling and what is serious here anymore.

Rask for Panarin is trolling.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well, you want a 24-year-old ppg player...

It's scary to think what Panarin could do when he's 26,27,28...

You want?

1) A Canes fan didn't start this thread.
2) nitpick, but Panarin is 25, not 24
3) I'm not naive enought to assume Panarin would have the score at the same rate in Carolina as he does in Chicago.
4) I'd rather keep my 50-60 point Center who is 23 years old and my 45-50 point #1RD who is 24 years old vs. an 80 point winger. It's scary to think what they can do when they are 25, 26, 27, 28.

 

[GoldiFox]

Well, you want a 24-year-old ppg player...

It's scary to think what Panarin could do when he's 26,27,28...

Rask is 23 and on pace for 68 points. Scary to think what he could do when he's Panarin's age.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Rask for Panarin is trolling.

Rask and Faulk at 50% is worse.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Rask and Faulk at 50% is worse.

Oh well, I mean I didn't start the thread and I don't think the Hawks and Canes are good trade partners.

Yeah, Hawks would probably have to add a prospect or pick in this scenario.

It's a lot closer than Rask straight up for Panarin tho..

It would have to be Rask, very good prospect and a 1st round pick for Panarin..

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Oh well, I mean I didn't start the thread and I don't think the Hawks and Canes are good trade partners.

Yeah, Hawks would probably have to add a prospect or pick in this scenario.

No, that's not even close. Faulk is a #1RD, at 24 years old on a sweetheart of a contract. I get that Chicago may not need him, but other "lesser" D have gotten really good returns (Larsson for Hall, Jones for Johansson). If the Canes trade Faulk in the near future, I'd be shocked if it wasn't for a top line forward, not as part of a package.

Look at it this way. In your proposal, Canes would be giving up 100-110 points (50-60 Rask, 50 Faulk) in exchange for 80 points (Panarin) while getting the older player at the same time. Then, they'd be taking on $10M+ in salary (Panarin + 50% of Faulk) and sending out just over $6.5M. No "pick and prospect is going to balance that out. That's just plain bad.

It's a lot closer than Rask straight up for Panarin tho..

No, it's not. I'm not saying Rask for Panarin is good, it's not, but yours is even worse.

It would have to be Rask, very good prospect and a 1st round pick for Panarin..

No, it wouldn't. Because the Canes wouldn't give that up for him so you can say it "would have to be", but it's not realistic.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Oh well, I mean I didn't start the thread and I don't think the Hawks and Canes are good trade partners.

Yeah, Hawks would probably have to add a prospect or pick in this scenario.

It's a lot closer than Rask straight up for Panarin tho..

It would have to be Rask, very good prospect and a 1st round pick for Panarin..

Disagree, simply because the Canes are one of the few teams that can afford a Panarin extension.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Disagree, simply because the Canes are one of the few teams that can afford a Panarin extension.

The problem is, the Canes are deep at D and weak at F. Trading 1 forward+ (Rask+) for a better forward (Panarin) is robbing Peter to pay Paul. I could be way off here, but I think if the Canes end up trading for a top line F (not necessarily Panarin), it will be one of their D going the other way.

 

[JustABlackhawksFan]

Disagree, simply because the Canes are one of the few teams that can afford a Panarin extension.

None of us actually know at this point what Panarin is asking for.... other than the report this summer that it was 6 yrs/6+ mil.

But now everybody is just automatically assuming it's gonna be north of 7 mil but we don't actually know that, do we? Gaudreau didn't get that, and Kucherov DEFINITELY didn't get that.

I get that as Hawks fans it's in our nature to be pessimistic or whatever about getting a guy re-signed because of the cap situation (I guess because if you expect the worst you'll be pleasantly surprised when the worst doesn't happen?), but I actually really do think Bowman is going to get Panarin locked down.

Chicago fans absolutely LOVE him. The outcry at trading Panarin would be worse, way worse, than any other capocalypse trade, including Saad. ESPECIALLY if they traded him at the draft which is taking place in Chicago this year. Can you imagine.

As to this trade proposal.... well, it seems Canes fans don't want to trade Rask, and Hawks fans think the value one-for-one is not good, so maybe this trade just won't work out.

 

[Roboturner913]

As a Carolina fan I like Panarin a lot, really tempting but I don't like the idea of weakening the team at center. That's never a good idea. I also don't care for the idea of trading a player as productive as Rask on a cheap long-term deal and only get the *rights* to Panarin. He could decide he'd rather go back to Russia or whatever and then we're screwed.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Rask is better than just a solid young player. Does he cool off a bit offensively and finish under his current 82 game pace? I’d take that bet. Still, he has the skill and the chemistry with Skinner to be a 55-60 point center in this league.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Rask is a better player than Panarin. However, when you look at organizational makeup, Carolina would have a hard time making that trade, even 1 for 1. Maybe that changes if they get a lucky lottery combination or a Jones-Johansen like swap presents itself (involving Faulk or Hanifin.) As it stands, swapping out Rask for Panarin doesn’t really advance Carolina's development now or in the future.

True, but he's not elite. Panarin is elite.

If I were building a roster to compete in a few years, I'd load up on as much high-end talent first, then figure out how to make the pieces fit second.

The Canes aren't in a bad spot going forward, but they aren't ready to compete just yet. So why would you hesitate adding another elite talent in exchange for a very good talent?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

None of us actually know at this point what Panarin is asking for.... other than the report this summer that it was 6 yrs/6+ mil.

But now everybody is just automatically assuming it's gonna be north of 7 mil but we don't actually know that, do we? Gaudreau didn't get that, and Kucherov DEFINITELY didn't get that.

I get that as Hawks fans it's in our nature to be pessimistic or whatever about getting a guy re-signed because of the cap situation (I guess because if you expect the worst you'll be presently surprised when the worst doesn't happen?), but I actually really do think Bowman is going to get Panarin locked down.

Chicago fans absolutely LOVE him. The outcry at trading Panarin would be worse, way worse, than any other capocalypse trade, including Saad. ESPECIALLY if they traded him at the draft which is taking place in Chicago this year. Can you imagine.

As to this trade proposal.... well, it seems Canes fans don't want to trade Rask, and Hawks fans think the value one-for-one is not good, so maybe this trade just won't work out.

All very good points man. I'm really just brainstorming what could be had IF things go bad.

As for the $7M number, that seems realistic if Panarin lets his agent do all the talking. Saad did the same thing, and it priced him out of Chicago.

Also, that schedule B bonus could be the nail in the coffin. Panarin enters the night tied for 10th among forwards.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

As a Carolina fan I like Panarin a lot, really tempting but I don't like the idea of weakening the team at center. That's never a good idea. I also don't care for the idea of trading a player as productive as Rask on a cheap long-term deal and only get the *rights* to Panarin. He could decide he'd rather go back to Russia or whatever and then we're screwed.

Are teams allowed to work out a verbal deal before the trade is official, or is that against the rules?

 

[Roboturner913]

The Canes aren't in a bad spot going forward, but they aren't ready to compete just yet. So why would you hesitate adding another elite talent in exchange for a very good talent?

$

At each players current pace, I can get 65ish points out of Rask for $4 million a year, or 80ish points out of Panarin for $7 million a year.

Break it down into moneyball type numbers, and I'm paying 61,538 per unit for Rask, as opposed to 87,500 per unit for Panarin.

 

[TLEH]

Rask is 23 and on pace for 68 points. Scary to think what he could do when he's Panarin's age.

Panarin HAS 106 points in 112 games. 43+63. Rask is not close to Panarin. Rask is a great young player on an even greater deal, I even have his jersey. I love his game, I wish the Hawks took him in the second round that year. His value is important to a small market Canes team with that contract, but his value really isn't that close to Panarin's. That Faulk stuff is just trolling I would hope..

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Panarin HAS 106 points in 112 games. 43+63. Rask is not close to Panarin. Rask is a great young player on an even greater deal, I even have his jersey. I love his game, I wish the Hawks took him in the second round that year. His value is important to a small market Canes team with that contract, but his value really isn't that close to Panarin's. That Faulk stuff is just trolling I would hope..

Yes. Which I don't think Canes fans are taking into consideration here. We're talking about one of the top scoring/most dynamic hockey players in the world. The ONLY reason he MAY not be a life-long Hawk is because of the cap.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

No, that's not even close. Faulk is a #1RD, at 24 years old on a sweetheart of a contract. I get that Chicago may not need him, but other "lesser" D have gotten really good returns (Larsson for Hall, Jones for Johansson). If the Canes trade Faulk in the near future, I'd be shocked if it wasn't for a top line forward, not as part of a package.

Look at it this way. In your proposal, Canes would be giving up 100-110 points (50-60 Rask, 50 Faulk) in exchange for 80 points (Panarin) while getting the older player at the same time. Then, they'd be taking on $10M+ in salary (Panarin + 50% of Faulk) and sending out just over $6.5M. No "pick and prospect is going to balance that out. That's just plain bad.



No, it's not. I'm not saying Rask for Panarin is good, it's not, but yours is even worse.



No, it wouldn't. Because the Canes wouldn't give that up for him so you can say it "would have to be", but it's not realistic.

The Canes have nothing to really make such a trade worth it that would work from both sides from my perspective if I was the Hawks GM.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The Canes have nothing to really make such a trade worth it that would work from both sides from my perspective if I was the Hawks GM.

And that's fine. Rask and Faulk at 50% is still a terrible deal for Carolina. Not sure how you can't recognize that.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Disagree, simply because the Canes are one of the few teams that can afford a Panarin extension.

Well, there are many teams that could take on his extension.

If the Hawks do trade Panarin they need to get a top 6 winger, top prospect and a 1st or 2nd round pick back in the deal..