Proposal: Panarin's RFA rights for Victor Rask

[hamzarocks]

Victor Rask is way better than Anisimov was at the time of the trade and TT is way better than Dano was at the time of the trade. It's not even close.

I'm sure Chicago would love a guy who would put up 60-70 points for them signed at $4 million a year for the next 6 years. It's not happening. Rask currently has one of the best contracts in the NHL versus his production.

Your overrating rask. Hes playing grest this season but he has never hit 60 or 70 pts before. Panarin is a top 5 winger in the game. He has hit 70 pts before and looks to hit 80 this season. As good as rask is, he's a mid number one center if his current level is the norm. Him being a center isn't enough to negate the fact that Panarin is simply the better player. The canes imo would have to add to rask to get Panarin(who shouldn't be traded the hawks need to find a way to keep him).

 

[migi]

If Canes can't add a player like Nolan Patrick in next summer (future 1C), I can't see them trading Rask for Panarin.

Value vise I would like Canes to add something like Aho, Hawks would add draft pick or some forward prospect. But Panarin for Rask is pretty even.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Your overrating rask. Hes playing grest this season but he has never hit 60 or 70 pts before. Panarin is a top 5 winger in the game. He has hit 70 pts before and looks to hit 80 this season. As good as rask is, he's a mid number one center if his current level is the norm. Him being a center isn't enough to negate the fact that Panarin is simply the better player. The canes imo would have to add to rask to get Panarin(who shouldn't be traded the hawks need to find a way to keep him).

Let me be clear, I absolutely want Panarin to re-sign. Period. Full stop.

However, it's seeming more unlikely at this point. I find it hard to believe his agent will ask for less than a $7m AAV, plus Panarin begins the day tied for the 10th most points among forwards.

Thinking he won't hit his schedule B bonuses again this season is unrealistic. If that carries over to next season, on top of the $7M+ contract, we're talking more than $10 million for Panarin next season.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Victor Rask is way better than Anisimov was at the time of the trade and TT is way better than Dano was at the time of the trade. It's not even close.

I'm sure Chicago would love a guy who would put up 60-70 points for them signed at $4 million a year for the next 6 years. It's not happening. Rask currently has one of the best contracts in the NHL versus his production.

Ok, so Rask potted 21 goals and 48 pts last year right?

At the same age, Anisimov potted 18 goals and 44 pts

Lets not pretend Rask is on another planet here.

Also, you keep undermining how much more SIGNIFICANTLY better Panarin is than Saad, so the quality of the pieces need to go up in return for him

Panarin has an ELITE release, shot, and hands.

We need to not take Rask's first 30 games of this season and presume thats the player he will be and continue to grow as for his career. Again, his stats are comparable to Anisimovs when he started out. He clearly didnt continue to progress the same way, and Tortorella said Anisimov was the best and smartest player he ever coached

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Carolina on the LW without Rask...

Panarin
Skinner
Aho

That certainly would be a competitive advantage, but it would be countered by the weakest center depth in the league. Worse yet, Carolina doesn’t have that great center prospect in the system that could conceivably step in soon and take his place. It's not a good fit at the moment.

 

[GoldiFox]

Your overrating rask. Hes playing grest this season but he has never hit 60 or 70 pts before. Panarin is a top 5 winger in the game. He has hit 70 pts before and looks to hit 80 this season. As good as rask is, he's a mid number one center if his current level is the norm. Him being a center isn't enough to negate the fact that Panarin is simply the better player. The canes imo would have to add to rask to get Panarin(who shouldn't be traded the hawks need to find a way to keep him).

Rask is 23 years old in his 3rd NHL season. He's shown consistent improvement and is close to matching Panarin's current pace while playing for the Hurricanes instead of the Blackhawks. Panarin is two years older than Rask, I'd expect him to be more productive at this point.

If Rask was making $7 million and only guaranteed for 2 more years then Panarin would be worth more. You seem to be conveniently glazing over the fact that Rask just signed a 6 year, $4 million per deal. Chicago fans should know best that this type of deal would be insanely valuable for them.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Ah, so Carolina only wants one top-end young forward. Gotcha.

I guess that's the better path to a championship roster.

If Carolina gives up Rask and goes not get a center back, their center depth is Jordan Staal followed by a bunch of scrubs (Derek Ryan, Jay McClement, Elias Lindholm). Carolina does not have anyone in the system ready to replace Rask right now at center, and they don't sign free agents.

Panarin is Panarin, so it's not an immediate "No", but it doesn't help Carolina nearly as much as you are implying.

Ok, so Rask potted 21 goals and 48 pts last year right?

At the same age, Anisimov potted 18 goals and 44 pts

That was Anisimov's best year.

Rask is on pace to crush that by 20 points this year.

They're not comparable.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

If Carolina gives up Rask and goes not get a center back, their center depth is Jordan Staal followed by a bunch of scrubs (Derek Ryan, Jay McClement, Elias Lindholm). Carolina does not have anyone in the system ready to replace Rask right now at center, and they don't sign free agents.

Panarin is Panarin, so it's not an immediate "No", but it doesn't help Carolina nearly as much as you are implying.



That was Anisimov's best year.

Rask is on pace to crush that by 20 points this year.

They're not comparable.

If you say so.
Again you are using a 30 game sample to project his career

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

If you say so.
Again you are using a 30 game sample to project his career

And you're using a completely different player to make the point that Rask's ceiling is at 48 points- which is asinine.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

And you're using a completely different player to make the point that Rask's ceiling is at 48 points- which is asinine.

Despite comparable production and key pieces of similar trade packages?
Yea lets ignore facts

Victor rask is suddenly a 1C

Take it to the bank.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Despite comparable production and key pieces of similar trade packages?
Yea lets ignore facts
.

Yes....

Anisimov only works if you assume that Rask's season last year was his ceiling/career year- and we should assume that in the midst of his clearly superior season because.....?

Comparing players- especially different players- based on what they did at similar ages is asinine. Watch: At the age of 22, Victor Rask had 48 points in 80 games, while Loui Eriksson had 31 points in 69 games [in a higher scoring era btw]. Ergo Rask > Eriksson???

You are only using Anisimov because it suits your argument, given he never improved on his 44 point 22 year old season.

And what kind of reductive reasoning is "similar trade packages"?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

That certainly would be a competitive advantage, but it would be countered by the weakest center depth in the league. Worse yet, Carolina doesn’t have that great center prospect in the system that could conceivably step in soon and take his place. It's not a good fit at the moment.

How far away is Carolina from competing?

Building around two of the top young players at their position is better than building around one, plus a solid young player.

Panarin > Rask

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Yes....

Anisimov only works if you assume that Rask's season last year was his ceiling/career year- and we should assume that in the midst of his clearly superior season because.....?

Comparing players- especially different players- based on what they did at similar ages is asinine. Watch: At the age of 22, Victor Rask had 48 points in 80 games, while Loui Eriksson had 31 points in 69 games [in a higher scoring era btw]. Ergo Rask > Eriksson???

You are only using Anisimov because it suits your argument, given he never improved on his 44 point 22 year old season.

And what kind of reductive reasoning is "similar trade packages"?

Or you need to consider it was an apt comparison for players of similar production, age, and trade comparison

Except you want to point out that anisimov didnt keep progressing, rask seemingly will always keep getting better, and STILL wont acknowledge that panarin is significantly better than saad so it still warrants a better trade package

But you clearly are vastly overstating rask

 

[Hawksfan2828]

How does taking that compensation help the team next season?

Plus Rask is proving to be a legit top-6 forward who looks like he'd fit the Hawks system.

It would give the Hawks picks and cap space - cap space that can be used to sign a UFA to fill his role (which cant be filled realistically - not even by Rask).

No way to this trade.

I'll take the picks and cap space.

Obviously the first and foremost goal is to get Panarin signed.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Chicago Are in a win now mode. Makes no sense at all to take the rfa compensation from an offersheet

It makes plenty of sense..

Hawks aren't going to get anyone in trade that is even close to Panarin for Panarin, so that point is moot unless a team wants to retain salary.

Hawks can go the UFA route in an attempt to find a replacement.

In a trade the Hawks are going to need a young cost controlled stud comming back +++.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Carolina down the middle without Rask...

Staal
TT
Ryan
McClement

That is another problem for the Hawks.

Where I Rask supposed to play?

Hawks have no legit LW'ers..

Down the middle the Hawks have:

Toews
Anisimov
Kruger
XXX

Rask would be a waste to play on the 3rd or 4th line and the same goes for Kruger.

One player is getting riped off on ice time in a deal like this.

No way to this deal.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Or you need to consider it was an apt comparison for players of similar production, age, and trade comparison

But it is not an apt comparison.

Literally the only thing Artem Anisimov and Victor Rask have in common is their production at age 22 in the NHL.

Except you want to point out that anisimov didnt keep progressing, rask seemingly will always keep getting better

I never said Rask will always get better, though his play this year indicates he's taken another step forward, which you dismissed as a small sample size because it didn't suit your argument.

What I am saying is, it is asinine to compare different players based on what they produced in the NHL at similar ages and then conclude that they will turn out as similar players.

Case in point, I can point to Loui Eriksson.

and STILL wont acknowledge that panarin is significantly better than saad so it still warrants a better trade package

That's not my beef here.

I'm posting because you said that Victor Rask is similar to Artem Anisimov, which is untrue.

How far away is Carolina from competing?

Building around two of the top young players at their position is better than building around one, plus a solid young player.

Panarin > Rask

Not when they play the same position.

Honestly Skinner for Panarin would make more sense, value wise, than Rask for Panarin: but Carolina LOVES Skinner, no way that will happen.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

But it is not an apt comparison.

Literally the only thing Artem Anisimov and Victor Rask have in common is their production at age 22 in the NHL.



I never said Rask will always get better, though his play this year indicates he's taken another step forward, which you dismissed as a small sample size because it didn't suit your argument.

What I am saying is, it is asinine to compare different players based on what they produced in the NHL at similar ages and then conclude that they will turn out as similar players.

Case in point, I can point to Loui Eriksson.



That's not my beef here.

I'm posting because you said that Victor Rask is similar to Artem Anisimov, which is untrue.

Good lord.

Its not even worth trying to objectively compare with you because you have such a crush on rask

He will always get better and be an all star

Hold out for a straight up mcdavid swap

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Good lord.

Its not even worth trying to objectively compare with you because you have such a crush on rask

He will always get better and be an all star

Hold out for a straight up mcdavid swap

You're not even responding to what I'm saying at this point.

Yes, saying Victor Rask is not Artem Anisimov = HE WILL ALWAYS GET BETTER!!!!111

 

[RememberTheRoar]

It would give the Hawks picks and cap space - cap space that can be used to sign a UFA to fill his role (which cant be filled realistically - not even by Rask).

No way to this trade.

I'll take the picks and cap space.

Obviously the first and foremost goal is to get Panarin signed.

The Hawks won't fully fill Panarin's void by going the UFA route either. The issue remains the same, money.

That's why getting a cost-controlled, capable player is the better option.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

I would love to know how Rask is worth a near PPG player?

Panarins value is way more than that....

That's another problem with this trade proposal - the value isn't there.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I would love to know how Rask is worth a near PPG player?

Panarins value is way more than that....

That's another problem with this trade proposal - the value isn't there.

If you're talking to me, Panarin >> Rask: the problem is that it wrecks Carolina's center depth (Rask being the only young, talented center in their system) to get a guy who plays a position at which they already have talent, which they will then have to pay through the nose to keep.

In a vacuum, Carolina adds, but this isn't a vacuum....

 

[GoldiFox]

Good lord.

Its not even worth trying to objectively compare with you because you have such a crush on rask

He will always get better and be an all star

Hold out for a straight up mcdavid swap

Maybe a hint to who is overrating who would be every Canes poster and multiple outside posters saying that this is a bad deal for Carolina. It seems the only ones who think it's a good deal for Carolina are Hawks posters who are also throwing out laughable offers like Rask + Aho or Rask + TT + 1st.

Of course Panarin is the better player right now. That isn't all that matters. Contract $$ and term are huge factors when it comes to trade value. Rask is signed for $4 million a year for 6 years and is in the middle of a breakout year. Panarin is 25 years old and only has 2 (or 3?) guaranteed RFA years left at a rate that will be north of $7 million. That's a huge $$ and term gap which is extremely important to a small market team.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

How far away is Carolina from competing?

Building around two of the top young players at their position is better than building around one, plus a solid young player.

Panarin > Rask

Rask is better than just a solid young player. Does he cool off a bit offensively and finish under his current 82 game pace? I’d take that bet. Still, he has the skill and the chemistry with Skinner to be a 55-60 point center in this league.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Rask is a better player than Panarin. However, when you look at organizational makeup, Carolina would have a hard time making that trade, even 1 for 1. Maybe that changes if they get a lucky lottery combination or a Jones-Johansen like swap presents itself (involving Faulk or Hanifin.) As it stands, swapping out Rask for Panarin doesn’t really advance Carolina's development now or in the future.

 

[GoldiFox]

I would love to know how Rask is worth a near PPG player?

Panarins value is way more than that....

That's another problem with this trade proposal - the value isn't there.

How in the world would one near PPG player be worth a near PPG player? Solid analysis here.

It's fine that Chicago fans don't watch the Canes but come on. At least check HockeyDB.