Rumor: Panarin unwilling to re-sign?

[CBJFan827]

It's not insane. I'm intrigued. I hope so.

 

[CBJx614]

It's one of many possibilities yes.

 

[Crede777]

Crede. Why do you disagree with those two positions?

Because I think the situation is too complex to try to force such a simplistic view of it.

First off, getting a season worth of Panarin is not "nothing." It has (immense) value. Now, whether or not you feel that value outweighs the real (not potential) package that we can get for him comes down to personal valuation of team success this season versus what you think we are going to get for him.

Second, GM's don't think like we would on these boards. To an outsider, letting someone go for nothing in return, particularly an important player, seems like all loss. However, teams put differing amounts of value into things like opening up cap space, maintaining roster cohesion, etc.

Third, no two player-team situations are the same. For instance: The Jackets situation with Panarin is very different from the Islanders situation with Tavares. For one, Tavares had been with that organization for almost a decade as opposed to Panarin who has been with the franchise for just over a year. Two, the Islanders had failed to make the playoffs leading up to Tavares leaving and the team wasn't really close. The Jackets meanwhile have been very successful. In fact, Jarmo's post-season interviews indicate that the players and management are convinced that they're much better than they showed this season. What worked and didn't work for the Islanders has relatively little bearing on the Jackets. Had Tavares stayed, that doesn't mean Panarin is more or less likely to stay next season.

 

[thebus88]

Guys, I'm sure Columbus IS an awesome city.

He's gone.

My new theory is actual "heat" is what he's looking for. Flip flops and t-shirt after practice and pool/hot tub after games. All year "vacation". LA, FLA, TB. Maybe "sleeper" teams like ANA, DAL, ARI. Maybe CAR or SJ. The "list" might be bigger than we think. The entire issue is HIM making some sort of "decision". But he cant be forced into making it.

 

[CBJFan827]

Latest crazy not-at-all-happening headcanon, prompted by bus.

Let's say W. Karlsson's agent is playing hardball on a new contract with VGK. They look to trade him.

Unsigned Karlsson + minor prospect + conditional draft pick (1st if he resigns, 2nd or 3rd if he doesn't) for Panarin. Maybe there's some way to get Nick Suzuki coming back our way.

Do we say no? We certainly get to fix our complex about him! I'd probably want more back from Vegas. Maybe Karlson+Haula+conditional pick as the ideal return.

Milano/Duclair-Karlsson-Atkinson
Foligno-Dubois-Bjorkstrand
Jenner-Wennberg-Anderson
Dubinsky-Nash-Milano/Duclair/Davidsson/Sedlak/Robinson

That would be a crazy top 9, for sure.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Latest crazy not-at-all-happening headcanon, prompted by bus.

Let's say W. Karlsson's agent is playing hardball on a new contract with VGK. They look to trade him.

Unsigned Karlsson + minor prospect + conditional draft pick (1st if he resigns, 2nd or 3rd if he doesn't) for Panarin. Maybe there's some way to get Nick Suzuki coming back our way.

Do we say no? We certainly get to fix our complex about him!

Milano/Duclair-Karlsson-Atkinson
Foligno-Dubois-Bjorkstrand
Jenner-Wennberg-Anderson
Dubinsky-Nash-Milano/Duclair/Davidsson/Sedlak/Robinson

That would be a crazy top 9, for sure.

We take it and run all the way to the bank.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So here's a silly hypothetical that came to mind that y'all can either derisively dismiss or desperately cling to as desired...

Plenty of us here have been going on the presumption that since Panarin really wants to test free agency, that means he doesn't want to be here. That's mostly because the one generally leads to the other. But this is already an unusual situation given the way he's notified the team. So here's a hypothetical.

Let's say, when it came to coming to America, he looked at the major cities and kind of dismissed most of the rest, because he's not yet aware that the NHL = unlike the KHL - isn't Moscow, St. Pete, and Everyone Else. He plays there for a while and finds it interesting. Then he gets traded here, has a blast, and realizes just how much possibility he missed out on with all the other cities in the NHL. "If Columbus is this good... what else did I miss?"

In such a scenario, he'd be wanting to see what else is out there... but Columbus would still be on the list of possible cities. "I took a broader look this time, and decided to stay."

That would fit with all of the (admittedly very sparse) facts we presently have. Easily shaken with new data (because, again, facts are sparse), but so are all the other theories we're working with.

Thoughts?

I think it's entirely possible he knows this is a big decision not only about his career and about his life and he wants to make sure he gets it right and he's overthinking the situation. I don't think him staying is likely, but it's not impossible.

Because I think the situation is too complex to try to force such a simplistic view of it.

First off, getting a season worth of Panarin is not "nothing." It has (immense) value. Now, whether or not you feel that value outweighs the real (not potential) package that we can get for him comes down to personal valuation of team success this season versus what you think we are going to get for him.

Second, GM's don't think like we would on these boards. To an outsider, letting someone go for nothing in return, particularly an important player, seems like all loss. However, teams put differing amounts of value into things like opening up cap space, maintaining roster cohesion, etc.

Third, no two player-team situations are the same. For instance: The Jackets situation with Panarin is very different from the Islanders situation with Tavares. For one, Tavares had been with that organization for almost a decade as opposed to Panarin who has been with the franchise for just over a year. Two, the Islanders had failed to make the playoffs leading up to Tavares leaving and the team wasn't really close. The Jackets meanwhile have been very successful. In fact, Jarmo's post-season interviews indicate that the players and management are convinced that they're much better than they showed this season. What worked and didn't work for the Islanders has relatively little bearing on the Jackets. Had Tavares stayed, that doesn't mean Panarin is more or less likely to stay next season.

In a culture in which everything has been commodified, it's difficult to measure and compare the less-tangible value of the things you're talking about. That's why many default to "can't lose him for nothing," because there is no clear way to commodify the alternative(s).

 

[blahblah]

Guys, I'm sure Columbus IS an awesome city. He's gone.

Living here, it's fine. I doubt I will live here the rest of my life. How you classify it is subjective' I certainly wouldn't go with awesome.

Having said that he's actually not gone yet, he's mostly going to leave. As far as Panarin, he's already won the Cup and he's still pretty young. His priorities are his priorities. If that doesn't mean Columbus, OH; see ya!

 

[Crede777]

Shifting the discussion a bit, I find it interesting that he doesn't want to be seen as a pariah in Columbus.

That's nice but I'm going to boo anyone who makes the team worse either directly or indirectly. If his decision to leave makes the team worse, boooooooo....

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Ultimately if he walks for nothing, at least the CBJ obtain cap relief from what is beginning to look like a terrible Saad contract. If he put up those numbers in Columbus like he did in Chicago last season they'd be in much worse shape.

 

[Hello Johnny]

As far as Panarin, he's already won the Cup and he's still pretty young.

huh?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Shifting the discussion a bit, I find it interesting that he doesn't want to be seen as a pariah in Columbus.

That's nice but I'm going to boo anyone who makes the team worse either directly or indirectly. If his decision to leave makes the team worse, boooooooo....

Ultimately, if he doesn't like our city and doesn't want to play here, he falls into Adam Foote, Jeff Carter territory in my opinion. If it really is no issue with the coach, the players, the fans or the organization like he claims, then I take it personally about the city.

He could seriously have a chance to be successful and be a cup contender for at least the next few years. It almost sounds like he doesn't care about winning a cup. CBJ could and seem willing to pay him just as much as any other team feasibly could. They claim its nothing like a big city or living by water etc. They also claim there is no list. If Columbus isn't good enough, he has to know what sort of places are good enough. I don't buy the thought that he doesn't know what he wants. If he knows Columbus isn't it, he knows more than he claims.

I know everyone says it is within his right to make these choices as a UFA and he told the team he didn't want to negotiate a new contract to be fair and open with them but his indecisiveness is causing a huge issue. Be a big boy and figure out what you want. I could think of far bigger life problems than being on the verge of a potential 8 year 88 million dollar contract and spending it in a city that isn't a "perfect paradise" for you. My sympathy runs thin on this situation.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

Will the Jackets every get a star player who is also a leader and makes the team his?
Pittsburgh is certainly no vacation paradise and they have had 2 sets of leaders in the past/present. Wings have had Yzerman, Lidstrom, etc. I suppose the difference is that they drafted all of those guys. Seems our best shot was Nash who although was aa great player, was never in the same league as those guys.
I know it's Panarin's right to live how and where he wants, but as a Jackets fan it pisses me off that we are all still waiting for the savior.

 

[Jackets16]

Will the Jackets every get a star player who is also a leader and makes the team his?

You just described Seth Jones.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

You just described Seth Jones.

I hope so but only time will tell.

 

[blahblah]

huh?

Oops, sorry. Feels like he's been around forever, my bad.,

 

[EspenK]

San Jose Sharks, Toronto Maple Leafs Could Take Swing At Acquiring Columbus Blue Jackets Wing Artemi Panarin In Trade

Friedman takes a speculative guess as to who might trade for Bread even without a signing commitment. Interesting thought, especially Toronto. If they decided to go for broke this year who might they trade?

Nylander? - If they got rid of him Panarin could take his place on the wing and if he decided to stay the $ saved on Nylander's contract could be used to re-sign Bread. Jackets have $ to extend him.

Matthews? - Now that would shake things up. Rumors about a rift with Babcock is about the only reason to trade him and I think Toronto would have to have an agreement to re-sign Bread in place.

A package consisting of Kadri and some combination of Andreas Johnson, Travis Dermott, Zach Hyman and draft choices.

A guy can dream right?

 

[Toe Pick]

I don't know; maybe we can look after the entire FO was reorganized, with something other than multiple head coaches ago, and after back to back playoff appearances? Do I really have to have this conversation? We are a completely different franchise than we were.

If you can't see how Carter isn't even a relevant conversation I don't really know what to tell you. He wouldn't have been happy with well over half of the franchises out there. Yes, the entire world was wondering why Foote went back to the franchise that he spent most of his life (no ****ing duh).



I'm sorry you've now "triggered" me. This is just asinine. There isn't any comparison with those cases. ****.

"Triggered you" -- oh, the horror.

Foote (MacLean)
Carter / Nash (Howson)
Panarin / Cole (Jarmo)

Yes, every single one of these players has "excuses" for moving on -- "Carter was Carter," "no-f***ing-duh Foote back to Colorado," Nash was tired of losing, Panarin wants a beach, and who knows why Cole took a reported lower offer to go to Colorado -- I guess it was the mountains. If they didn't have an excuse they would have signed and or not requested a trade out.

And here's your no-f***ing-duh newsflash for the day -- the ones that did resign also have excuses for staying here, however this topic was not about those that chose to stay.

Do I think the Jackets will survive as a franchise, of course. Do I think players will sign here in the future, yes.

You stated there is no evidence of players wanting out and I clearly pointed there out there IS --under every regime that's been here regardless of coach or state of the franchise. And for the majority -- these are the major building blocks, faces of the franchise types. And now Bob is standing in the batter's box.

You can choose to ignore it but I guarantee all of these situations have been discussed behind closed doors. It would be naive to not consider each case and what can be done better to attract/retain top talent. Because quite frankly, especially in this Panarin case, and somewhat to your point, the franchise has never been in a better state yet it's still not good enough. That IS cause for concern.

 

[CBJfan4evr]

I don't see any reason to trade Bob unless you get a good offer. Goalies don't have much of a trade market. Even if we're looking to move on from him (which I don't think is set in stone) unless we're out of it at the deadline we should just keep him for this year.



I guess it's possible but the Russian article, Portzline article and the Dispatch article were posted a few hours from each other using much of the same quotes. I don't think Jarmo and Milstein talk enough for them to engage in conversations every day. Plus, all of this information was reportedly given to Jarmo at the Monday meeting so none of it was a surprise in all likelihood.

Seems to me that both Panarin and Bob are gone. On the positive side we'll very quickly end up with a massive amount of cap space. The FO is gonna have to spin up the marketing engine to try to convince us fans that we have the bricks to complete the job. I started to write a Jarmo rant but didn't want to inflame the masses . I 'll just say that if this goes down the way it looks like it will the seat is going to get very hot for Jarmo and Davidson in their contract year.

 

[KJ Dangler]

"Triggered you" -- oh, the horror.

Foote (MacLean)
Carter / Nash (Howson)
Panarin / Cole (Jarmo)

Yes, every single one of these players has "excuses" for moving on -- "Carter was Carter," "no-****ing-duh Foote back to Colorado," Nash was tired of losing, Panarin wants a beach, and who knows why Cole took a reported lower offer to go to Colorado -- I guess it was the mountains. If they didn't have an excuse they would have signed and or not requested a trade out.

And here's your no-****ing-duh newsflash for the day -- the ones that did resign also have excuses for staying here, however this topic was not about those that chose to stay.

Do I think the Jackets will survive as a franchise, of course. Do I think players will sign here in the future, yes.

You stated there is no evidence of players wanting out and I clearly pointed there out there IS --under every regime that's been here regardless of coach or state of the franchise. And for the majority -- these are the major building blocks, faces of the franchise types. And now Bob is standing in the batter's box.

You can choose to ignore it but I guarantee all of these situations have been discussed behind closed doors. It would be naive to not consider each case and what can be done better to attract/retain top talent. Because quite frankly, especially in this Panarin case, and somewhat to your point, the franchise has never been in a better state yet it's still not good enough. That IS cause for concern.

As mentioned prior, Foote , Carter, our franchise was a joke at that point. That sounds not the case anymore, and 99% of players would have no problem going to a team that was a cup contender. Once we actually break thru in the playoffs Columbus will be seen as a destination , that is a legitimate place you can go, and win the cup.

As for Panarin , It’s just a rare case. He said on record , he doesn’t care about the money , and I believe that . It’s not about his ego , or being paid as a top player . He came from a small town raised by his grandparents , very poor, and family, and community , is what is important to him . I would imagine , he would gladly take less , to go to a place like the Panthers, where they have a lot of Russian players, and Miami has a large Russian community , plus there are beaches, etc .

 

[Maylo]

Some level headed thoughs from Alex Zhitnik, not everything lost on russian side. Agree with him.


- How are you as a person who knows about the NHL virtually all, reacted to the ultimatum of Artemiy Panarin agent to his club?
-If we talk about my opinion, the side of Panarin, choosing public tactics in negotiations, involving the media, and entangling "Columbus" with various dates, behaves very aggressively. Usualy it's very atypical for NHL.

- Are there any risks in the ultimatum of Panarin?
They're obvious. In the NHL quite often hockey player signs a contract-blockbuster for the year before his entry into the market of UFA, So right now it seems to be the perfect time not for big words, but for quiet negotiations.
If a player enters the autumn without a new contract, he takes on many risks. God forbid, a weak season or an injury - and summer 2019 your price becomes much lower. Especially since Panarin has no good Cup history-with "Chicago" and "Columbus" he went to the playoffs three times, but each time he lost in the first round.
Finally, you have to remember that money loves silence. And now the whole story unfolds in the media, it is hot, it's public.
- According to rumors, he wants to play in big cities. Is there any logic here?
- Maybe domestic reasons, but not sports reasons. In the NY region "Rangers", "Islanders", "New Jersey" are going through some rebuild. Even with the Vegas phenomenon, the Stanley Cup will not come to New York clubs in the coming years. Also there is "Los Angeles" and "Florida". "Kings" may be will have a chance on the trophy, but the "Panthers " closer to the" Rangers" or "Islanders".
Therefore, if we talk about pure sport, Panarin needs to stay in "Columbus". One of the youngest and most progressive NHL teams, the only problem of which is the lack of an elite center forward.

- Maybe side of the player just doesn't like the city?
- Columbus is a comfortable city with a million population, it certainly differs from 15-20 million megacities of New York or Los Angeles level. At the same time, it can not be compared with very small towns of the Buffalo level. I do not think there is a problem here.

- And what about coach John Tortorella?
- I worked with him right after the exchange from "Los Angeles" to "Buffalo", where he was in charge of the defence. Emotional, hard trainer, energetic! Just like what our russian players need.

Алексей Житник: «У ультиматума Панарина есть много рисков» | russia-hockey.ru

 

[Crede777]

I agree 100% with Zhitnik as you translated him. We are obviously missing a piece of the puzzle with Panarin because, as all have seem to agreed besides Portzline, Panarin's statements do not add up.

Enjoys teammates and coach.
Very competitive and young team.
Team is willing to offer max years and tons of money.
Does not love city but doesn't hate it.
Therefore I am leaving...?

 

[CBJFan827]

I agree 100% with Zhitnik as you translated him. We are obviously missing a piece of the puzzle with Panarin because, as all have seem to agreed besides Portzline, Panarin's statements do not add up.

Enjoys teammates and coach.
Very competitive and young team.
Team is willing to offer max years and tons of money.
Does not love city but doesn't hate it.
Therefore I am leaving...?

Viqsi headcanon confirmed

 

[KJ Dangler]

I agree 100% with Zhitnik as you translated him. We are obviously missing a piece of the puzzle with Panarin because, as all have seem to agreed besides Portzline, Panarin's statements do not add up.

Enjoys teammates and coach.
Very competitive and young team.
Team is willing to offer max years and tons of money.
Does not love city but doesn't hate it.
Therefore I am leaving...?

Proof is in the pudding though. He won’t negotiate with the jackets , yet he wants it resolved prior to camp. He doesn’t want to be here , and wants a sign and trade , or he will play out season , and walk for nothing . So whether it’s the city , coach , we will never know . He’s trying to have it both ways , so the fans don’t hate him , bottom line , he doesn’t want to be here , or he would handle things differently . I want to despise him , but then I look at how this team is constructed , great regular season goalie , elite defenseman , and absolute no help for him at the forward position . Why Jarmo hasn’t balanced out this team , is beyond me . Panarin may look at this team totally different if we were to ship off a talented defenseman, not jones , to Toronto , for a player like Nylander . Or we made a move to aquire Duchene from Ottawa . Someone that actually has a skill set that can keep up with Panarin . Yet , it appears that Jarmo wants to go into this season praying that Pld doesn’t have a sophomore slump , and can man the first line , and that Wennberg will develop some type of compete level , and be a legitimate #2 center . Maybe Panarin is as skeptical as most here are .

 

[major major]

Proof is in the pudding though. He won’t negotiate with the jackets , yet he wants it resolved prior to camp. He doesn’t want to be here , and wants a sign and trade , or he will play out season , and walk for nothing . So whether it’s the city , coach , we will never know . He’s trying to have it both ways , so the fans don’t hate him , bottom line , he doesn’t want to be here , or he would handle things differently . I want to despise him , but then I look at how this team is constructed , great regular season goalie , elite defenseman , and absolute no help for him at the forward position .

You keep putting your words in Panarin's mouth. I don't think he has those issues. If anything he likes to be the leader of the offense and not have to play second-fiddle to anyone. I can believe that he wants to live somewhere else. I also wouldn't want to live in Columbus, so I get that.

Why Jarmo hasn’t balanced out this team , is beyond me . Panarin may look at this team totally different if we were to ship off a talented defenseman, not jones , to Toronto , for a player like Nylander . Or we made a move to aquire Duchene from Ottawa . Someone that actually has a skill set that can keep up with Panarin . Yet , it appears that Jarmo wants to go into this season praying that Pld doesn’t have a sophomore slump , and can man the first line , and that Wennberg will develop some type of compete level , and be a legitimate #2 center . Maybe Panarin is as skeptical as most here are .

I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Dubois is better than Duchene from now on. Or if Wennberg is back at the 60 pt level. We had so many other guys well below career norms, I think it's not honest to put it as if slumping is the norm. It's no more honest than claiming the end of season spurt, when they led the league in goal scoring, is the norm.