Confirmed with Link: Pacioretty Traded to Vegas for Tomas Tatar, Nick Suzuki, 2019 2nd Part II

[PaulD]

What is Galchenyuk though really? A 50 point guy? I think Poehling will be better than that myself.

Did ypou think that about Chucky at one time too?

 

[jaffy27]

Lol if we wanted to tank we could have traded Radulov and Markov at the deadline before they were free agents. That way we have Kotka+whatever we get for Radulov and Markov+a better 1st in 2017 because we traded Radulov and Markov

But we weren’t cause we won the division that year......

 

[The Great Weal]

But we weren’t cause we won the division that year......

St.Louis traded Shattenkirk and Stastny despite being in a playoff spot. If bergevin sees that neither Markov or Radulov are willing to negotiate to his standards then he needs to get assets for them.

 

[groovejuice]

St.Louis traded Shattenkirk and Stastny despite being in a playoff spot. If bergevin sees that neither Markov or Radulov are willing to negotiate to his standards then he needs to get assets for them.

Seems obvious, doesn't it?

 

[jaffy27]

St.Louis traded Shattenkirk and Stastny despite being in a playoff spot. If bergevin sees that neither Markov or Radulov are willing to negotiate to his standards then he needs to get assets for them.

I’m sure if Bergevin explained it that way to the public while 1st in our division, this fanbase, especially HF, would’ve been on board with it, Bergevin would’ve been “Praised”, for trading Markov and Radulov while being atop the division!!

Ughhhhh.......no b’y

BTW, where was St-Louis in regards to standings when they decided to trade away the disappointment that is Shattenkirk (atrocious with NYR) and Stastny who has 0pts in 3 games for Vegas.

St-Louis was out of the playoff picture and had loss 6 in a row when they traded Statsny.

Habs on the other hand were in a playoff spot and had a Radulov who constantly praised Montreal and a lifer in Markov

Circumstances were very different.

 

[groovejuice]

I’m sure if Bergevin explained it that way to the public while 1st in our division, this fanbase, especially HF, would’ve been on board with it, Bergevin would’ve been “Praised”, for trading Markov and Radulov while being atop the division!!

Ughhhhh.......no b’y

BTW, where was St-Louis in regards to standings when they decided to trade away the disappointment that is Shattenkirk (atrocious with NYR) and Stastny who has 0pts in 3 games for Vegas.

St-Louis was out of the playoff picture and had loss 6 in a row when they traded Statsny.

Habs on the other hand were in a playoff spot and had a Radulov who constantly praised Montreal and a lifer in Markov

Circumstances were very different.

You think trading those players for assets would yield a more negative response than letting them walk for nothing? I don't see much logic there, honestly.

 

[jaffy27]

You think trading those players for assets would yield a more negative response than letting them walk for nothing? I don't see much logic there, honestly.

Trading them for assets in a down year....yes

Trading Radulov while we’re in first is stupid.

 

[The Great Weal]

I’m sure if Bergevin explained it that way to the public while 1st in our division, this fanbase, especially HF, would’ve been on board with it, Bergevin would’ve been “Praised”, for trading Markov and Radulov while being atop the division!!

Ughhhhh.......no b’y

BTW, where was St-Louis in regards to standings when they decided to trade away the disappointment that is Shattenkirk (atrocious with NYR) and Stastny who has 0pts in 3 games for Vegas.

St-Louis was out of the playoff picture and had loss 6 in a row when they traded Statsny.

Habs on the other hand were in a playoff spot and had a Radulov who constantly praised Montreal and a lifer in Markov

Circumstances were very different.

He could tell the media what he basically told them in the end anyways.

"I feel like Markov and Radulov were asking for too much and weren't willing to negotiate to my standards. This was not the plan but we feel that we need to receive something for players of their caliber instead of losing them for nothing. As you know I have and always will emphasize my importance on youth."

I'm not sure where they were when they made the trade. I do know that they still made the playoffs without Shattenkirk and were like 1 point shy without Stastny. Also who cares how those guys are doing now? They got traded as rentals, not long term commitments.

Bergevin also said that we would fall off our chair if we knew Radulovs demands in January. He always said, and still does, how important the future is to him.

 

[groovejuice]

Trading them for assets in a down year....yes

Trading Radulov while we’re in first is stupid.

Letting him walk for nothing isn't more stupid?

 

[Chr1s97]

Letting him walk for nothing isn't more stupid?

Yes but it was hypothetical at the time. You couldn't know in advance whats kind of contract Radu was looking to have. He probably said to MB that he was open to negotiations at the end of the year but didnt tell him what he was looking to get like money. Who knows with a great run in playoff maybe he would've been willing to let a bit of money on the side. Anywayy he decided to go to another team at the end of the year and he would've been really stupid to trade him while the team was doing well with him.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Am I really? Maybe you should take a closer look.

I could have included Toronto in that lot but they did make the playoff twice in the past decade, although they top (6) ~6 times ou of 10 and top (11) 8/10

Yes, you totally are.

maybe you should take a look back at your original post...

a decade is 10 years. And 11th or 6th, is not top 5.


I mean, if you reach a little more, just a little, you'll fit the Habs too in that category, you know...

 

[groovejuice]

Yes but it was hypothetical at the time. You couldn't know in advance whats kind of contract Radu was looking to have. He probably said to MB that he was open to negotiations at the end of the year but didnt tell him what he was looking to get like money. Who knows with a great run in playoff maybe he would've been willing to let a bit of money on the side. Anywayy he decided to go to another team at the end of the year and he would've been really stupid to trade him while the team was doing well with him.

You're omitting the fact that Bergevin could have started talking contract during the season. It was pretty clear what a fine acquisition Radulov was. That was the first miscalculation. The next was not getting him signed before he was UFA. What Bergevin did after that was pure folly. An embarrassment.

There's absolutely no way to let Bergevin off the hook for that trio of screw ups, IMO. Each one worse than the previous.

 

[Chr1s97]

You're omitting the fact that Bergevin could have started talking contract during the season. It was pretty clear what a fine acquisition Radulov was. That was the first miscalculation. The next was not getting him signed before he was UFA. What Bergevin did after that was pure folly. An embarrassment.

There's absolutely no way to let Bergevin off the hook for that trio of screw ups, IMO. Each one worse than the previous.

Yes I agree, dont get me wrong I dont support bergevin's behaviour in alot of case including this one. IMO trading in the middle of the years while we playin well wouldve been stupid.
But refusing to give the men the money that he worked his ass off to worth.. that is wayyy more stupid. I think that is where MB made his mistake in that scenario refusing to give him the 1 or 1,5 m difference between the clan especially on top of that when you decide to go drop 4,5 on a washed up dman the same summer.

 

[groovejuice]

Yes I agree, dont get me wrong I dont support bergevin's behaviour in alot of case including this one. IMO trading in the middle of the years while we playin well wouldve been stupid.
But refusing to give the men the money that he worked his ass off to worth.. that is wayyy more stupid. I think that is where MB made his mistake in that scenario refusing to give him the 1 or 1,5 m difference between the clan especially on top of that when you decide to go drop 4,5 on a washed up dman the same summer.

That's why it's so bad. Bergevin went balls out into an antagonistic negotiation and obviously had no Plan B.

 

[Scriptor]

You think trading those players for assets would yield a more negative response than letting them walk for nothing? I don't see much logic there, honestly.

Well said. because, honestly, it doesn't matter what gets done in MON, there is always backlash and negativity. What,s worse is the hindsight posturing that the fan base would have understood the other move instead. BS. More lambasting would have taken place.

It's not a question about what was better as a move. It's always a question of what can be used at the moment to berate and insult the team and management to its fullest, mostly under the pretence of being more knowledgeable than those in place in a professional capacity.

Logic? Really?

I don't think that being a paid management type automatically makes you more knowledgeable than an armchair GM of a fan, but I would lean towards thinking that the armchair GM of a fan -- who isn't aware of all that may be surrounding a move -- is dead on more knowledgeable 110% of the time as some posters seem to pass themselves off as being.

 

[Runner77]

Yes but it was hypothetical at the time. You couldn't know in advance whats kind of contract Radu was looking to have. He probably said to MB that he was open to negotiations at the end of the year but didnt tell him what he was looking to get like money. Who knows with a great run in playoff maybe he would've been willing to let a bit of money on the side. Anywayy he decided to go to another team at the end of the year and he would've been really stupid to trade him while the team was doing well with him.

Please tell me we're not going to re-open that can of worms that has led to endless posts asserting alternate "facts" that no one can agree on in here.

 

[The Great Weal]

Yes but it was hypothetical at the time. You couldn't know in advance whats kind of contract Radu was looking to have. He probably said to MB that he was open to negotiations at the end of the year but didnt tell him what he was looking to get like money. Who knows with a great run in playoff maybe he would've been willing to let a bit of money on the side. Anywayy he decided to go to another team at the end of the year and he would've been really stupid to trade him while the team was doing well with him.

Lmao what?

Bergevin himself said that we would fall off a chair if we saw his demands in January and that he wouldn't budge. I don't know about you, but I tell Radulov that he had until the deadline to change his mind.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Lmao what?

Bergevin himself said that we would fall off a chair if we saw his demands in January and that he wouldn't budge. I don't know about you, but I tell Radulov that he had until the deadline to change his mind.

or what ? you threaten to trade him to another PO team, an arguably better team ?

THATs scary!

 

[The Great Weal]

or what ? you threaten to trade him to another PO team, an arguably better team ?

THATs scary!

Lol I couldn't give a f*** where we traded him. He would have returned a kings ransom and thats all that matters to me.

 

[Chr1s97]

I misread my bad. I thought you was saying that MB said that he wouldve fell off his chair if he knew what radulov was looking for.

 

[groovejuice]

Lmao what?

Bergevin himself said that we would fall off a chair if we saw his demands in January and that he wouldn't budge. I don't know about you, but I tell Radulov that he had until the deadline to change his mind.

Players almost always come in with a huge ask and the GM with a miniscule offer. This is nothing new and describes pretty much all negotiations.

So a large ask by Radulov means absolutely nothing on its own without knowing if Bergevin even made a counter offer.

We certainly saw the thrust of Bergevin's tactics at the end of season though. That's not hypothesis.

 

[Runner77]

Players almost always come in with a huge ask and the GM with a miniscule offer. This is nothing new and describes pretty much all negotiations.

...

 

[The Great Weal]

Players almost always come in with a huge ask and the GM with a miniscule offer. This is nothing new and describes pretty much all negotiations.

So a large ask by Radulov means absolutely nothing on its own without knowing if Bergevin even made a counter offer.

We certainly saw the thrust of Bergevin's tactics at the end of season though. That's not hypothesis.

It always happens. However, we get the impression through what Bergevin himself said, and what sources were saying, that Radulov wanted an absurd contract at first and wasn't even willing to budge. Bergevin could have put in his "take it or leave it" offer to Radulov before the deadline.

 

[groovejuice]

It's not a question about what was better as a move. It's always a question of what can be used at the moment to berate and insult the team and management to its fullest, mostly under the pretence of being more knowledgeable than those in place in a professional capacity.

I'm quite sure that you're aware that the pro-management continent is every bit as vociferous as it's critics. They are also just as likely to be as wrong and biased as the other camp.

There are excellent posters and knowledgeable advocates on both sides. Suggesting otherwise is completely inaccurate and in itself heavily biased.

 

[groovejuice]