Rumor: Pacioretty on the move?

[Habs Halifax]

the Duchene trade's return for COL was higher obviously with the 3rd team involved and NSH wanting the piece from OTT. I don't think COL's return can be compared to Patches, but OTT's cost of acquisition in acquiring can (cond 2018 1st/Bowers/2019 3rd/Hammond)

So what Sakic got in return don't count but what the Sens paid counts? You can't use the Duchene trade at all if you want to use the Turris and the sign/trade factor. That's BS! What the Sens traded away would not of gotten Duchene if there was only two trade partners. Sakic would of never accepted that deal and Duchene might still be with the Avs.

 

[EdAVSfan]

the Duchene trade's return for COL was higher obviously with the 3rd team involved and NSH wanting the piece from OTT. I don't think COL's return can be compared to Patches, but OTT's cost of acquisition in acquiring can (cond 2018 1st/Bowers/2019 3rd/Hammond)

Ottawa’s cost of acquisition for Duchene was TURRIS, a cond. 1st, Bowers, a3rd and Hammond.

But it was done for more than just a hockey trade. It was done with serious financial motives.

Unless some kind of super unique circumstance appears with Pacioretty, it’s not comparable. That, and Ottawa thought they were getting a 1C.

It’s a far different market for a winger. There’s lots of them. And generally, as assets, they’re lower down on the value meter.

If Pacioretty was pretty much the only guy available, then sure. But with several options we know of, plus all the ones we don’t know of, it could be flooded.

How many aggressive buyers are we expecting this deadline, who need LW?

 

[DRW204]

So what Sakic got in return don't count but what the Sens paid counts? You can't use the Duchene trade at all if you want to use the Turris and the sign/trade factor. That's BS! What the Sens traded away would not of gotten Duchene if there was only two trade partners. Sakic would of never accepted that deal and Duchene might still be with the Avs.

Yes it does if that's you argument, then COL didnt just trade Duchene. they traded Duchene and Turris to receive that haul. do u have a supposed piece equivalent to turris to garner an equivalent haul?

Ottawa’s cost of acquisition for Duchene was TURRIS, a cond. 1st, Bowers, a3rd and Hammond.

But it was done for more than just a hockey trade. It was done with serious financial motives.

Unless some kind of super unique circumstance appears with Pacioretty, it’s not comparable. That, and Ottawa thought they were getting a 1C.

It’s a far different market for a winger. There’s lots of them. And generally, as assets, they’re lower down on the value meter.

If Pacioretty was pretty much the only guy available, then sure. But with several options we know of, plus all the ones we don’t know of, it could be flooded.

How many aggressive buyers are we expecting this deadline, who need LW?

i agree. it is difficult to dissect it fully and compare it to a deal with 2 teams for patches (esp with OTT clearly not wanting turris). but one thing is for sure neither of the teams gave up their top prospect (none of Chabot, Brown, Chlapik, White or Tolvanen, Fabbro were included). Sakic got a great haul in aggregate still

 

[Starat327]

Radulov took the deal with the Stars because it was the best offer and they have less taxes than most. Habs would of had to give Radulov well north of $7M to match the take home clear pay he would of got in Montreal.

At the end of the day, the rate for a #3 or #4 guy in your top 6 is somewhere between $5-$7M and I would give Patch no more than $6.5M. JVR is asking for 6x6.

You have a recorded conversation with his agent that said he took the best offer available? Or a link to him saying that this was the highest offer he got, and money was the only consideration?

Right - So you keep dancing around this and im not sure why. If he's your #3 or #4 guy in your line up - you arent moving multiple A grade pieces for him. Schenn was a #4 kind of guy - and he, along with a cap dump, got two firsts.

So again, which is it? Is he going to be cheap to re-sign because he isnt the top 5 goal scorer that hes been made out to be, and is more of a #3-4 guy, or is he going to cost a Kovalchuk style package to rent, because hes a top 5 scorer, and will likely be expensive to sign?

 

[Habs Halifax]

In this specific case I'd strongly disagree with those calling Poehling nothing special. He was a steal at 25, and would have been my pick at 17 had Liljegren not been available. He was severely underrated because of people failing to factor in that late birthday 1st eligibles (the majority of players drafted out of the NCAA) are a full season more experienced.

On principle- what are you seven years old? Of course you can have it both ways. If team X's late 1st rounder's play is far exceeding expectations and team Y's is just matching expectations or failing to do so than they're not worth the same. Pretty damn simple concept..

OK Mr 4thline. Poehling was underrated due to playing in the NCAA as a 17 year old against men. He graduated from HS early so he could play with his two older brothers. The lack of offensive numbers was a concern but Poehling was playing with much older players and he has since addressed this in his 2nd year. He is a pretty safe bet to be a middle 2 center if he keeps this up.

I don't blame the Jets fans for not liking this deal. Heck, 99% of the proposed deals on these boards are never liked by the other teams fan base. I remember proposing a Sergachev and a 2017 1st (Poehling) for Drai back in Oct of 2016 and the Oilers called it the worse trade proposal ever. You not liking the deal for Patch means nothing to me.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Yes it does if that's you argument, then COL didnt just trade Duchene. they traded Duchene and Turris to receive that haul
i agree. it is difficult to dissect it fully and compare it to a deal with 2 teams for patches. but one thing is for sure neither of the teams gave up their top prospect (none of Chabot, Brown, Chlapik, White or Tolvanen, Fabbro were included)

In full agreement. Sakic waited a full year to try to get particular prospects. He didn’t, and eventually “settled” for a prospect just a touch below blue chip. And only accepted it because of the sheer quantity added to it.

Although I’m pretty sure Girard was close to, if not Nashville’s top prospect. He was just redundant for them.

Right now, I’m not sure what Pacioretty goes for. Seems like they’ll only trade him for a homerun deal. So they’re even sure which direction they’re going in. Seems very hesitant to make a mistake.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes it does if that's you argument, then COL didnt just trade Duchene. they traded Duchene and Turris to receive that haul. do u have a supposed piece equivalent to turris to garner an equivalent haul?

The only thing I will agree is we can't use the circumstance in that 3 way deal in any way. When you omit what Sakic got (more than his asking price) and then focus at what the Sens paid, it's not a fair evaluation. Sakic would of never agreed to that deal if he had to accept what the Sens offered and did not get what the Preds also game him.

Come on man.

 

[surixon]

Neither would the Habs without that A graded prospect.

Good keep your player we don't need him.

 

[branch]

Ottawa’s cost of acquisition for Duchene was TURRIS, a cond. 1st, Bowers, a3rd and Hammond.

But it was done for more than just a hockey trade. It was done with serious financial motives.

Unless some kind of super unique circumstance appears with Pacioretty, it’s not comparable. That, and Ottawa thought they were getting a 1C.

It’s a far different market for a winger. There’s lots of them. And generally, as assets, they’re lower down on the value meter.

If Pacioretty was pretty much the only guy available, then sure. But with several options we know of, plus all the ones we don’t know of, it could be flooded.

How many aggressive buyers are we expecting this deadline, who need LW?

Turris = Expiring UFA
1st = Good value
Bowers = OK piece but hardly a blue chipper. Remember Phillippe Paradis (1st rounder) being traded in his D+1
3rd= w/e
Hammond = Trash

Duchene has also been ppg for the last 20 games

 

[DRW204]

In full agreement. Sakic waited a full year to try to get particular prospects. He didn’t, and eventually “settled” for a prospect just a touch below blue chip. And only accepted it because of the sheer quantity added to it.

Although I’m pretty sure Girard was close to, if not Nashville’s top prospect. He was just redundant for them.

Right now, I’m not sure what Pacioretty goes for. Seems like they’ll only trade him for a homerun deal. So they’re even sure which direction they’re going in. Seems very hesitant to make a mistake.

I tried looking for NSH prospect rankings from the summer 2017. Kamenev was ranked 5th and Girard was ranked 8th in one.

For OTT Bowers was 6th

My overarching point is that top prospects don't get dealt nor do 3 x first rounders equivalent, Duchene deal is an example of that no matter how you slice it. Now 2 x first round equivalents for Patches, that's a fair deal IMO from a team with a dire need at top 6W

 

[EdAVSfan]

I tried looking for NSH prospect rankings from the summer 2017. Kamenev was ranked 5th and Girard was ranked 8th in one.

For OTT Bowers was 6th

My overarching point is that top prospects don't get dealt nor do 3 x first rounders equivalent, Duchene deal is an example of that no matter how you slice it. Now 2 x first round equivalents for Patches, that's a fair deal IMO from a team with a dire need at top 6W

I’m not exactly sure what we’re discussing anymore.

I’m not disagreeing with you.

I’m of the position that Pacioretty won’t get that kind of package either.

 

[4thline]

Patch for this years playoffs and next year for 3 late 1st round picks is not as far fetched as most will admit.

1st + Lemieux (31st overall) Dano (27th overall) seems to fit that bill no?

JVR is asking for 6x6.

Worth 12% more in salary, 100% more in trade. #Habenomics

 

[EdAVSfan]

Turris = Expiring UFA
1st = Good value
Bowers = OK piece but hardly a blue chipper. Remember Phillippe Paradis (1st rounder) being traded in his D+1
3rd= w/e
Hammond = Trash

Duchene has also been ppg for the last 20 games

Ummm, is there a particular point to this post?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

 

[4thline]

OK Mr 4thline. Poehling was underrated due to playing in the NCAA as a 17 year old against men. He graduated from HS early so he could play with his two older brothers. The lack of offensive numbers was a concern but Poehling was playing with much older players and he has since addressed this in his 2nd year. He is a pretty safe bet to be a middle 2 center if he keeps this up.

I don't blame the Jets fans for not liking this deal. Heck, 99% of the proposed deals on these boards are never liked by the other teams fan base. I remember proposing a Sergachev and a 2017 1st (Poehling) for Drai back in Oct of 2016 and the Oilers called it the worse trade proposal ever. You not liking the deal for Patch means nothing to me.

Lol touchy touchy. The bolded is literally what I said. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm higher on Poehling than you.

The underlined has nothing to do with this line of discussion. You said "you can't have it both ways" as disagreement to the idea that post draft not all players drafted late in the 1st remain equal in value and bound to the late 1st round valuation. It was dumb.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I tried looking for NSH prospect rankings from the summer 2017. Kamenev was ranked 5th and Girard was ranked 8th in one.

For OTT Bowers was 6th

My overarching point is that top prospects don't get dealt nor do 3 x first rounders equivalent, Duchene deal is an example of that no matter how you slice it. Now 2 x first round equivalents for Patches, that's a fair deal IMO from a team with a dire need at top 6W

As a side note:

Top prospects for Nashville Predators

 

[Pongs21]

I feel patches will return more in line with what Kessle returned.

 

[Iceman]

50 pages... jeez.

 

[DRW204]

The only thing I will agree is we can't use the circumstance in that 3 way deal in any way. When you omit what Sakic got (more than his asking price) and then focus at what the Sens paid, it's not a fair evaluation. Sakic would of never agreed to that deal if he had to accept what the Sens offered and did not get what the Preds also game him.

Come on man.

why do you think Sakic wanted a 3 way trade? wasn't it reported no team was willing to give a top prospect? There was weeks of rumors of him asking for Chabot and a top prospect from NYI (supposed Barzal) obviously no team obliged (in retrospect Girard has been really good). Maybe @EdAVSfan can weigh in.

The point with the Duchene example, as well as the many others that have been cited is that the acquiring team's top prospect were not moved.

As a side note:

Top prospects for Nashville Predators

i was going off this one that was posted on HF Predators TSP: Nashville Predators Prospects - Last Word on Hockey

 

[rent free]

50 pages... jeez.

60 dawg

 

[Baksfamous112]

Good keep your player we don't need him.

Good. Keep your 4th liners, we have enough of them already on the Habs

 

[Iceman]

60 dawg

50 more me but it's like 40 too many... wait until he gets traded if ever, lol.

 

[Benstheman]

Pacioretty won't be traded before TD. Too many options for byers and cheaper ones.

Pacioretty will have more suitors this summer while other teams can negotiate an extension with him.

 

[sansabri]

I feel patches will return more in line with what Kessle returned.

Lol.

 

[Tripod]

1st + Lemieux (31st overall) Dano (27th overall) seems to fit that bill no?

Funny, that will be looked at and be told no, not enough, yet it fits the overpayment they want.

Of course the issue is that those guys don't have that value anymore.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Funny, that will be looked at and be told no, not enough, yet it fits the overpayment they want.

Of course the issue is that those guys don't have that value anymore.

We’ll give you McCarron (25th), De la Rose (32nd) and 2019 1st (top 10 protected) + 2018 3rd for Simmonds.

According to you, that would be an overpayment but we’ll do it anyway just because I’d like to do the Flyers a favor