Rumor: Pacioretty on the move?

[Habs Halifax]

Roslovic was drafted 3 years ago, he's not just a "late 1st rounder" anymore. His value has only risen since then. Even Vesalainen wouldn't be considered just a "late 1st rounder" when you consider how he's playing this year. You're attaching these titles associated with their draft position in order to try and rationalize this trade from a Jet's fans standpoint.

I understand but that's the price if you want Patch and his goal scoring ability. I realize it's a high price to pay but we are not trading him for cheap.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I will take the bet that he does not get traded for this much.

2 of those, sure. Not all 3.

And as for St.L, Thomas will be a no. Others will be available.

I will take a bet that he doesn't get traded at all.

 

[Tripod]

I understand but that's the price if you want Patch and his goal scoring ability. I realize it's a high price to pay but we are not trading him for cheap.

And if you wait till summer, his value goes down due to only 1 playoff run vs 2.

So it's not like Montreal has nothing to lose by NOT dealing him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Prospect value isn't statically tied to their draft slot if their performance doesn't matchup. In the case of both of those players valuing them as late 1st's with low probability of being impact players ranges from ignorant to willfully disingenuous.

Farthest thing from a Jets fan.

Well the Habs drafted Poehling with the 25th pick and I keep getting told he is nothing special . You can't have it both ways where our late 1st round picks are nothing special while the Jets late first round picks are

 

[Tripod]

I will take a bit that he doesn't get traded at all.

And that would not shock me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And if you wait till summer, his value goes down due to only 1 playoff run vs 2.

So it's not like Montreal has nothing to lose by NOT dealing him.

We will see what he wants for a contract extension after July 1st. I personally would give him 5 years at $6.5M max (age 31-35). If he don't take it, we let him walk into next season as a pending UFA where he has to prove himself in order to cash in on his next deal. We will get our 1st and another piece at next year's deadline worse case.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I read 57 pages with barely a mention of the Jets. Mostly St. Louis fans insisting they weren't interested in Patches.

Then on page 56...

1st 2018 Connor Petan Dano for Pacioretty.

I know Jets got a great top 6 but..

Patches Scheif Wheeler
Laine Little Ehlers
Perreault Lowry Armia
Copp Roslovic/Depth trade (Letestu) Armia

Jets be sick.

Jets certainly have the prospects to make a deal for Pacioretty. I think one of the problems is many of our prospects are too good to be included in multi player deals. I'm down for moving the 2018 1st, & while Dano appears to have no place on the Jets roster he could easily succeed in Montreal. Would be a shame to give up on Petan with his game finally coming together, but each of these 3 pieces are likely available. As a package though it fails to meet what it takes to get Max. He's one of the best pure shooters in the NHL & is on a sweetheart deal at $4.5 million.

Adding Kyle Connor however is not going to happen. Connor’s freshman season in the NCAA equalled the 71 points that Buffalo Sabres forward Jack Eichel amassed for Boston University in 2014-15. Only Paul Kariya totalled more points as a freshman, scoring 100 points for Maine in 1992-93. 19-year-old Connor had an NCAA-leading 71 points (35 goals, 36 assists) in 38 games last season as a freshman at the University of Michigan.

More importantly are his NHL numbers. He's an NHL rookie with 17G-18A for 35 points in 48 games with a good portion of these totals being accumulated on Winnipeg's 4th line. No way does he enter this conversation. He's Patches equal at 21 years of age on a ELC.

....you're a jets fan?

Obviously you're a Habs fan. See above. Chevy turns down that deal the moment Connors name enters the mix. At this point I doubt Chevy trades Connor straight up for Pacioretty. His upside is off the charts.

Unfortunately, that does not help our problem at C.

Nic Petan is a center. I dont think you are getting this elite center back..

Any way to include Roslovic instead of Connor?

Can the Jets add Roslovic while they're at it if they're going to be so generous

I would say Connor's value is higher than Roslovic's. As a Habs fan, i don't think Jets trade Connor but Roslovic is a possibility.

I would be down with 2018 1st (late) and Roslovic.

I could see Roslovic enter the mix. Recent prospect evaluations had Connor the 3rd best prospect in the NHL with Roslovic rated 8th. Jack was scoring at a point per game pace in the AHL & looks to better defensively than Connor, which I guess should be expected when comparing centres to wingers.

Problem is the Jets are weak with right hand shooting forwards. Depth chart reads high end with the first four (Wheeler, Little, Scheifele, Laine), then a solid bottom sixer in Armia. After that it's Roslovic & a sharp drop off to low pedigree prospects Lipon, Spacek. The one surprise is 6th rounder Mason Appleton leading the AHL in scoring in his rookie year, although many could point at playing at the AHL level with Connor, Roslovic & Petan are the reasons his numbers are so high. Staying on topic the Jets are low on right shooting forwards in the organization. Roslovic is the one bright spot.

Not me, We are missing one piece in the asking price.

- Warm NHL ready body: Roslovic
- 1st round draft pick
- Top Prospect: Vesalainen

Too much? Patch stays a Habs.

It's a steep price. Vesalainen appears to be the real deal. With all these pieces at the Jets disposal, do they really need to go all in this year to acquire a Patches when the Jets current left wings Ehlers, Laine, Perreault & Connor are all outscoring him?

That said, Max Pacioretty is one of the leagues best shots & would immediately be the best left shot on the Jets. That option on the power play could free up a lot of room for Laine & Scheifele. A deal would make the Jets already potent offence the best in the NHL by a country mile.

Of note to Habs fans is that Jets captain Wheeler is Patches summer workout partner. The two are neighbours at their summer homes in Florida & their families are very tight. Their children play together.

Behind Enemy Lines: Blake Wheeler on Max Pacioretty

Wheeler would certainly approve of him joining the team & their relationship could bring out the best in Max & get him to the 50 goal mark that many expected of him. This relationship could easily result in a contract extension although at $7.5 million that money would be better spent on long term deals for Laine, Trouba, Morrissey & Hellybuyck

 

[Starat327]

We will see what he wants for a contract extension after July 1st. I personally would give him 5 years at $6.5M max (age 31-35). If he don't take it, we let him walk into next season as a pending UFA where he has to prove himself in order to cash in on his next deal. We will get our 1st and another piece at next year's deadline worse case.

Pacioretty would be absolutely dumb to sign that deal, especially given that he was so underpaid on his previous one. Its unlikely he takes a contract that isnt 7 years at length at least.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Well, Guillaume Lefrancois from LaPresse+ talked to 3 NHL scouts this week and they all agreed Patches would fetch at least a 1st + A prospect (minimum). That means at the very least a Thomas + 1st + (maybe) or Steel + 1st + (maybe) etc..

Petan is a dime a dozen in the league (depth guy) and Winnipeg's first isn't very attractive. If the ask really was a guy like Petan + 1st + minor piece, he would already have been moved.

Partira, partira pas... - La Presse+

Max Pacioretty's contract - valid for another season - offers one of the best value for a player who, let's face it, is 5th in the NHL for goals scored (157) since October 2013. "His best center has been David Desharnais, likes to remember our scout B. Those who covet him say: "If I can place it with my center No. 1, it can be even more sparkling."

Now, the flats. "In the PP, he looks a little bit lost, he never found his role, observes the scout B. [...] It remains to know if it's the guy to make the difference in the playoff. If he falls into a good team and the pressure to lead the offense is not directly on him, he will be correct. But if he is the one who has to pull the club, he can be disappointing. To those who believe a trade is inevitable, scout A warns. "He can also help the Canadiens attract the coveted center, saying [at this center] that he will have Pacioretty as a winger. One think of it well. "

As value, what gives? "If you dare to trade a guy at his peak, you need a first-round pick and an A prospect," slice our scout B. The C scout sees bigger. "A player similar to Evander Kane, but more interesting because of his contract. I think the Sabers are asking for top-notch hope, a draft pick and an NHL ready player. The Canadian could try to get the same thing. "

what fan has said to sell low? selling low imo is like 2nd+prospect or something. He is not valueless, but the equivalent of 3x first round picks or a team's top C prospect+1st is highly unlikely. Where is the precedent deal that had this cost from an acquiring team? Duchene/Turris/Schenn/Kessel did not cost 3x first rounder.

See one my post (I quoted it above). A guy from LaPress asked 3 NHL scouts from other team the value of Pacioretty. They all agreed he would fetch a 1st + A prospect + (maybe). So yeah, asking for A prospect C + 1st + warm body isn’t fat fetched

And if you wait till summer, his value goes down due to only 1 playoff run vs 2.

So it's not like Montreal has nothing to lose by NOT dealing him.

His value goes down but the team acquiring him can talk to him about an extension, which brings his value up to where it was before the TD

 

[Starat327]

I read 57 pages with barely a mention of the Jets. Mostly St. Louis fans insisting they weren't interested in Patches.

Obviously you're a Habs fan. See above. Chevy turns down that deal the moment Connors name enters the mix. At this point I doubt Chevy trades Connor straight up for Pacioretty. His upside is off the charts.

.. you must have misread me. That deal is exceptionally bad for the Jets, and I am far from a Habs fan.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's a steep price. Vesalainen appears to be the real deal. With all these pieces at the Jets disposal, do they really need to go all in this year to acquire a Patches when the Jets current left wings Ehlers, Laine, Perreault & Connor are all outscoring him?

That said, Max Pacioretty is one of the leagues best shots & would immediately be the best left shot on the Jets. That option on the power play could free up a lot of room for Laine & Scheifele. A deal would make the Jets already potent offence the best in the NHL by a country mile.

Of note to Habs fans is that Jets captain Wheeler is Patches summer workout partner. The two are neighbours at their summer homes in Florida & their families are very tight. Their children play together.

Behind Enemy Lines: Blake Wheeler on Max Pacioretty

Wheeler would certainly approve of him joining the team & their relationship could bring out the best in Max & get him to the 50 goal mark that many expected of him. This relationship could easily result in a contract extension although at $7.5 million that money would be better spent on long term deals for Laine, Trouba, Morrissey & Hellybuyck

No question it's a steep price to pay. But the Habs will not and should not trade Patch for cheap. He can easily score 30+ on a team with a deep top 6 and depth at center. I personally don't think he gets $7.5M but it depends on what he does next year I guess. This year he is tracking towards 25 goals and 50 pts on a struggling team with terrible depth at center. I think 5 years at $6.5M fits. If he wants more, 6 years at $6 or 7 years at just under $6M.

If I was the Jets, I would be hesitant as well. I would ask for another piece to come the other way. A 2nd rounder (Caps pick), McCarron, Ikonen, Lindgren... A piece like that. Or don't do anything and stay the course and take your chances with what they currently have. There will be other pieces available for cheaper but not as talented as Patch and the goal scoring ability he brings while playing a very responsible two way game.

 

[Snowman]

.. you must have misread me. That deal is exceptionally bad for the Jets, and I am far from a Habs fan.

Agreed. There is a less than zero chance the Jets make the suggested trade with Montreal for Patches. Absolutely will not happen.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I read 57 pages with barely a mention of the Jets. Mostly St. Louis fans insisting they weren't interested in Patches.

Then on page 56...



Jets certainly have the prospects to make a deal for Pacioretty. I think one of the problems is many of our prospects are too good to be included in multi player deals. I'm down for moving the 2018 1st, & while Dano appears to have no place on the Jets roster he could easily succeed in Montreal. Would be a shame to give up on Petan with his game finally coming together, but each of these 3 pieces are likely available. As a package though it fails to meet what it takes to get Max. He's one of the best pure shooters in the NHL & is on a sweetheart deal at $4.5 million.

Adding Kyle Connor however is not going to happen. Connor’s freshman season in the NCAA equalled the 71 points that Buffalo Sabres forward Jack Eichel amassed for Boston University in 2014-15. Only Paul Kariya totalled more points as a freshman, scoring 100 points for Maine in 1992-93. 19-year-old Connor had an NCAA-leading 71 points (35 goals, 36 assists) in 38 games last season as a freshman at the University of Michigan.

More importantly are his NHL numbers. He's an NHL rookie with 17G-18A for 35 points in 48 games with a good portion of these totals being accumulated on Winnipeg's 4th line. No way does he enter this conversation. He's Patches equal at 21 years of age on a ELC.



Obviously you're a Habs fan. See above. Chevy turns down that deal the moment Connors name enters the mix. At this point I doubt Chevy trades Connor straight up for Pacioretty. His upside is off the charts.











I could see Roslovic enter the mix. Recent prospect evaluations had Connor the 3rd best prospect in the NHL with Roslovic rated 8th. Jack was scoring at a point per game pace in the AHL & looks to better defensively than Connor, which I guess should be expected when comparing centres to wingers.

Problem is the Jets are weak with right hand shooting forwards. Depth chart reads high end with the first four (Wheeler, Little, Scheifele, Laine), then a solid bottom sixer in Armia. After that it's Roslovic & a sharp drop off to low pedigree prospects Lipon, Spacek. The one surprise is 6th rounder Mason Appleton leading the AHL in scoring in his rookie year, although many could point at playing at the AHL level with Connor, Roslovic & Petan are the reasons his numbers are so high. Staying on topic the Jets are low on right shooting forwards in the organization. Roslovic is the one bright spot.



It's a steep price. Vesalainen appears to be the real deal. With all these pieces at the Jets disposal, do they really need to go all in this year to acquire a Patches when the Jets current left wings Ehlers, Laine, Perreault & Connor are all outscoring him?

That said, Max Pacioretty is one of the leagues best shots & would immediately be the best left shot on the Jets. That option on the power play could free up a lot of room for Laine & Scheifele. A deal would make the Jets already potent offence the best in the NHL by a country mile.

Of note to Habs fans is that Jets captain Wheeler is Patches summer workout partner. The two are neighbours at their summer homes in Florida & their families are very tight. Their children play together.

Behind Enemy Lines: Blake Wheeler on Max Pacioretty

Wheeler would certainly approve of him joining the team & their relationship could bring out the best in Max & get him to the 50 goal mark that many expected of him. This relationship could easily result in a contract extension although at $7.5 million that money would be better spent on long term deals for Laine, Trouba, Morrissey & Hellybuyck

That’s one of the most well thought post I have read in a while. Good analysis & it gives a clear picture of the Jets situation and their possible interest on MP

 

[DRW204]

See one my post (I quoted it above). A guy from LaPress asked 3 NHL scouts from other team the value of Pacioretty. They all agreed he would fetch a 1st + A prospect + (maybe). So yeah, asking for A prospect C + 1st + warm body isn’t fat fetched



His value goes down but the team acquiring him can talk to him about an extension, which brings his value up to where it was before the TD

ok that's a couple scouts opinions. i am asking what ACTUAL deals that have come to fruition have involved 3 x first rounders and/or a Top C prospect going out the door for a Winger. Not to mention what team is in dire need to move a great C prospect for a W. STL have vehemently said no. ANA top 2 Cs will be 33+ by beg of 2018-2019 season. They need a high end C prospect more than a Winger that they wont be able to retain past 2019.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

.. you must have misread me. That deal is exceptionally bad for the Jets, and I am far from a Habs fan.

I guess I did. Sarcasm doesn't translate well with written text. Use a smiley next time!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Pacioretty would be absolutely dumb to sign that deal, especially given that he was so underpaid on his previous one. Its unlikely he takes a contract that isnt 7 years at length at least.

It's irrelevant to his next contract that he was underpaid in the previous one. If he plays another year with the Habs, he takes the risk with decline in stats due to no center to play with in his contract year. He will talk to his agent about this and trying to get another $1M in the open market a year later is risky... especially if he plays the majority of the year with the Habs.

#3 and #4 pieces in any teams top 6 is usually paid $5-$7M range. Patch for 5 years at $6.5M is a decent contract. I don't see many GM's giving him a higher AAV than that. His value worth is similar to Radulov and he got 5 years at $6.25M this past season. Oshie got $5.75M for 8 years. All player are similar in age when their contracts kick in and all players are #3 or #4 in their teams top 6.

 

[Hannibal]

First round pick
Jake Roslovic

Vs

Pacioretty

I think this is a possible scenario between Winnipeg and Montreal.

 

[Baksfamous112]

ok that's a couple scouts opinions. i am asking what ACTUAL deals that have come to fruition have involved 3 x first rounders and/or a Top C prospect going out the door for a Winger. Not to mention what team is in dire need to move a great C prospect for a W. STL have vehemently said no. ANA top 2 Cs will be 33+ by beg of 2018-2019 season. They need a high end C prospect more than a Winger that they wont be able to retain past 2019.

St-Louis FANS have said no. Doesn’t mean management has the same view.

I’m not going to argue because it’s pointless. Neither of us know what is on the table and what’s not. We’re only speculating right now on what our GMs has in mind

 

[Starat327]

I guess I did. Sarcasm doesn't translate well with written text. Use a smiley next time!

When someone with a Jets username posts a bad deal, and i question said person's fandom because of proposing such a lopsided deal against his team - its not sarcasm. I was legitimately questioning why a jets fan would propose that.

 

[Starat327]

It's irrelevant to his next contract that he was underpaid in the previous one. If he plays another year with the Habs, he takes the risk with decline in stats due to no center to play with in his contract year. He will talk to his agent about this and trying to get another $1M in the open market a year later is risky... especially if he plays the majority of the year with the Habs.

#3 and #4 pieces in any teams top 6 is usually paid $5-$7M range. Patch for 5 years at $6.5M is a decent contract. I don't see many GM's giving him a higher AAV than that. His value worth is similar to Radulov and he got 5 years at $6.25M this past season. Oshie got $5.75M for 8 years. All player are similar in age when their contracts kick in and all players are #3 or #4 in their teams top 6.

If you dont think hes going to be closed-minded to 'cheap' deals given how underpaid he was before, youre out to lunch. Hes not going to sign a 'fair' deal.

Top 5 goal scorers over the past 5 years dont get 5-6 million. They get paid 7+. You don't get to trade him as a"top 5 goal scorer" but only sign him as a "33-#4 forward. Hes going to expect to get paid for his production, and hes going to want that contract to basically end his career, cause he knows he wont have that type of value at 34.

 

[stl76]

I said this in the Nash thread, and I'll say it again here: I think GMs are going to be very hesitant to give up 2018 1sts or top prospects at the TDL and they are going to wait and wait and wait until finally one of the many veteran wingers on the market is traded and sets the price for the others. I also think that price will end up being a lot lower than the initial asks for these guys.

Lol @ an asking price of value equivalient to 3 1sts. The market just isn't there this year IMO. Now more than ever GMs are seeing the value of youth and cheap ELCs...

 

[Snowman]

First round pick
Jake Roslovic

Vs

Pacioretty

I think this is a possible scenario between Winnipeg and Montreal.

Not really. The Jets would not entertain trading Roslovic at all. You'll need to draft and develop your own first rounders.

 

[Omar]

And if you wait till summer, his value goes down due to only 1 playoff run vs 2.

So it's not like Montreal has nothing to lose by NOT dealing him.

Think of it this way. Habs can get a 1st plus a prospect for him next year. Why would they let him go now for the same price? There’s a premium to be paid for an extra playoff run.

 

[Starat327]

Think of it this way. Habs can get a 1st plus a prospect for him next year. Why would they let him go now for the same price? There’s a premium to be paid for an extra playoff run.

Not if he gets hurt, or has an even worse year next year.

That being said - they shouldnt feel 'forced' to make a move right now. But the possibility of the above exists.

 

[Habs Halifax]

what fan has said to sell low? selling low imo is like 2nd+prospect or something. He is not valueless, but the equivalent of 3x first round picks or a team's top C prospect+1st is highly unlikely. Where is the precedent deal that had this cost from an acquiring team? Duchene/Turris/Schenn/Kessel did not cost 3x first rounder.

Duchene/Turris/Schenn/Kessel were all different terms. You need to find a player with 2 years left like Duchene and perhaps Lucic. The other thing to factor in is what kind of 1st round pick. In the Jets trade I proposed, it's 3 pieces from the 25+ spot within the 1st round.

Lucic trade as a Pending UFA for a whole season: Bruins got a proven piece in Jones and the 13th pick. If the Jets gave me Roslovic and the 13th pick, I would consider it but I would want to see a larger sample size from Roslovic at the NHL level. There is a substantial difference between 25+ pick and the 13th pick and Jones > Roslovic. Bruins later traded Jones for another 1st and prospect Kuraly. The 1st ended up being the 29th pick I believe. So Lucic for one year got a 13th, 29th, and prospect Kuraly.

Duchene and Turris was a unique circumstance: But Sakic got his asking price and more!

Kessel had lots of term left but he Leafs wanted to dump him. They even retained salary to do it.

Blues stole Schenn from the Flyers. All 29 other NHL GM's would love a do over.

Patch for this years playoffs and next year for 3 late 1st round picks is not as far fetched as most will admit.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If you dont think hes going to be closed-minded to 'cheap' deals given how underpaid he was before, youre out to lunch. Hes not going to sign a 'fair' deal.

Top 5 goal scorers over the past 5 years dont get 5-6 million. They get paid 7+. You don't get to trade him as a"top 5 goal scorer" but only sign him as a "33-#4 forward. Hes going to expect to get paid for his production, and hes going to want that contract to basically end his career, cause he knows he wont have that type of value at 34.

Not if he scores 25 goals this year and 25 (+/-) goals next year. That means he is not a top 5 NHL goal scorer anymore. Maybe he tries to recoup some money with the Habs due being underpaid in his current contract but all 30 other NHL GM's don't care what his last contract was when they negotiate the next one.