P-L Dubois Part 2

[Viqsi]

Anderson was an obvious 20-25 goal scorer. Long term at his age almost no risk.

Obvious by what measure, tho? I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion as it seemed that way to me as well, but I also saw potential reasons for worry that I considered unimportant. Kind of like with Wennberg. (Specifically, I was worried about his extremely low assists count.) That and, frankly, his agent was playing hardball and trying to get much, much more than he was worth.

Johansen had a 33g 30a breakout season and looked every part of a #1C. No brainer long term.

This is another "the agent decided to unreasonably play hardball" situation. I'm pretty sure long term was the intent, but Overhardt was insisting on more than he was worth to go along with that term. There's "what you want" and "what you can get".

Cam Atkinson had two consecutive 20 goal seasons and was an obvious long term signing, but Jarmo did his RFAs must not be paid nonsense with him. Should have been long termed.

Concur, but he subsequently has been, and it's still for a good deal. I don't know if his agent was acting up like Overhardt did with Joey or if Kekalainen legit was trying to preserve the "second contract" ideal or whatever the heck came up there.

Wennberg had a very hot half season with many of his points on the PP. He had been given advantages of TOI that few received. Many question marks. Easy bridge decision. Just like Murray and Jenner were.

In Wennberg's case, I saw those worries, but didn't consider them to be that much of an issue because even outside of the PP he was doing well at even strength. He's got me extraordinarily frustrated because he's not producing at ES anymore either.

Jarmo (other than the gift of a contract Jones' agent allowed-Seth Jones should fire whoever his agent is) doesn't get that players are more valuable in their 20s than their 30s (most are on the downside by 32) and that young good RFAs should be long termed.

David Savard. Markus Nutivaara. Brandon Saad.

 

[Viqsi]

Random fun fact also discovered: Seth Jones (he of the steal of a contract for the organization who should fire his agent) and Alexander Wennberg (he of the steal of a contract for the player whose agent is a thief) have the same agent - Pat Brisson.

Bringing things back on topic, he's also the agent for PLD, so I suspect extension talks should be just fine in that regard.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Please, Johansen couldnt carry PLD jock strap at their respective ages.

PLD played with Artemi Panarin, a 30 goal 70 point+ per game player, and Cam Atkinson, a 30 goal 50-60 point per game player, in his first two seasons with ample amounts of PP time.

Johansen played with Nick Foligno and RJ Umberger up until his third season. Then broke out with 30 goals and 60 points.

I'd say PLD had it better and the comparisons aren't fair.

Not trying to downplay PLD's performance or stats. But let's be fair here.

 

[BakerMayfield]

PLD played with Artemi Panarin, a 30 goal 70 point+ per game player, and Cam Atkinson, a 30 goal 50-60 point per game player, in his first two seasons with ample amounts of PP time.

Johansen played with Nick Foligno and RJ Umberger up until his third season. Then broke out with 30 goals and 60 points.

I'd say PLD had it better and the comparisons aren't fair.

Not trying to downplay PLD's performance or stats. But let's be fair here.

PLD also plays with both of those 2 an average of just over 11 minutes per game.

Its not lime hes playing 30 minutes a game with them. That just makes the fact hes destroying Johansens career pace makes it even more impressive.

Johansen even now, far more developed than PLD is, has only amassed 159 points since his first full season in nashville and hes been playing along Forsberg and Arvidsson, a couple of 30+ goal scorers themselfs.

It would be absolutely ridiculous to have Johansen above PLD at any point in their careers really.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

PLD also plays with both of those 2 an average of just over 11 minutes per game.

Its not lime hes playing 30 minutes a game with them. That just makes the fact hes destroying Johansens career pace makes it even more impressive.

Johansen even now, far more developed than PLD is, has only amassed 159 points since his first full season in nashville and hes been playing along Forsberg and Arvidsson, a couple of 30+ goal scorers themselfs.

It would be absolutely ridiculous to have Johansen above PLD at any point in their careers really.

You're welcome to have that opinion. I disagree. PLD is making a push, but I want to see him next year without Panarin before making a judgement. As of right now, I take Johansen.

 

[BakerMayfield]

You're welcome to have that opinion. I disagree. PLD is making a push, but I want to see him next year without Panarin before making a judgement. As of right now, I take Johansen.

Good luck with that lol

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Good luck with that lol

PLD is likely to get over 60 points this year. Johansen has done that 4 times (and likely a 5th this year).

PLD is a hell of a player and someone to watch going forward. But so is Johansen. Hurt feelings on this board/fanbase aside, that's just facts.

 

[InfiniteElement]

Understand it's only his 2nd year, but is anyone else concerned about PLD's production without Panarin next year? When he was moved from the top line, I remember not being too impressed. Almost seemed to be a product of Panarin - anyone else think similarly? Love the guy, but I hope he continues to improve.

 

[Old Guy]

Duchene quoted as saying PLD reminds him of Kopitar. Went on to say how difficult it was to play him on New Year's Eve.

That's not a 10 year player trying to suck up to a 2nd year. That's honest words. Me likey.
Also, this has to be a nugget to put on the scales when Duchene begins to weigh his future team. Who knows how much, but this can't hurt.

 

[Monk]

Understand it's only his 2nd year, but is anyone else concerned about PLD's production without Panarin next year? When he was moved from the top line, I remember not being too impressed. Almost seemed to be a product of Panarin - anyone else think similarly? Love the guy, but I hope he continues to improve.

To be honest... no, I'm not worried about it from a PLD standpoint. I do have some concern generally about removing someone of Panarin's caliber from the team (Duchene helps, if he stays).

I agree that we may very well see a small drop in PLD's point production, but I think that'd be true of basically any center in the NHL who goes from playing with Panarin to playing with Dzingel/Jenner/Wennberg/Foligno/whoever the heck replaces him. I don't see that as a reflection of PLD's ability, but as an indicator of just how damn good Panarin is.

 

[Sore Loser]

PLD looks fine. He will probably see a production drop off, but he's far more than just an offensive player. He's legitimately a top-2 center in this league.

 

[InfiniteElement]

Yep, agree he's a quality center and would be on any team (maybe not Toronto or Pittsburgh)'s top 2 lines. Just don't think he can carry a line, but definitely has room to grow/develop still.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Agree with others that statistically he likely will lose a few points without Bread, but still feel good about him.

 

[blahblah]

PLD looks fine. He will probably see a production drop off, but he's far more than just an offensive player. He's legitimately a top-2 center in this league.

His ceiling is higher than that, he's not generational (Crosby, McDavid) but he has the potential to be elite. If we sign Duchene, he could learn a lot. If he gets the minutes he'll end up being a ppg player.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Understand it's only his 2nd year, but is anyone else concerned about PLD's production without Panarin next year? When he was moved from the top line, I remember not being too impressed. Almost seemed to be a product of Panarin - anyone else think similarly? Love the guy, but I hope he continues to improve.

Concerned? Yes. But we won't know obviously until next year. At the very least he looks like a high end top 6 centerman.

 

[MoeBartoli]

To be honest... no, I'm not worried about it from a PLD standpoint. I do have some concern generally about removing someone of Panarin's caliber from the team (Duchene helps, if he stays).

I agree that we may very well see a small drop in PLD's point production, but I think that'd be true of basically any center in the NHL who goes from playing with Panarin to playing with Dzingel/Jenner/Wennberg/Foligno/whoever the heck replaces him. I don't see that as a reflection of PLD's ability, but as an indicator of just how damn good Panarin is.

I agree there may be a drop off, not receiving some sweet set-ups Panarin delivers. But as I've maintained previously, I think his biggest adjustment will be he'll need to carry the puck into the O-Zone more, a duty Bread often handles.

As @Sore Loser said, he's definitely a top 2 line center.

As an aside, I thought Duchene's comparison of PLD to Kopitar was interesting and a nice compliment.

 

[majormajor]

I see PLD as a Kopitar/Getzlaf hybrid, with more of a shot and less of a soft touch for passing (okay much less). He has some rare gifts. The guy protects the puck with his shoulders very well, and the way he can consistently roll off the cycle to get open and create a scoring opportunity is very rare. His short crossovers stepping around a guy, leaning in, is not something you see a lot of big guys able to do.

He had two points in two games without Panarin, and last game I saw it was Dubois doing a lot more work than Panarin in creating scoring chances for Cam. Nothing to worry about. He'll score less without Panarin, as anyone would. But it still might be 80 pts, Dubois has that much upside. His big challenge right now is conditioning. He's a big body and he struggles at times trying to keep up. I think puck carrying on the zone entry is something he is getting better and better at and I expect him to have little trouble there.

 

[Doggy]

Anyone concerned PLD plays over the line too much. I know he takes plenty of penalties but just feel like he’s a bit cheap. Hoping he toned it down with maturity.

 

[Maylo]

Looked likes 1st round B, rather than 1st line C in last 20 games in RS and playoffs.

 

[thebus88]

FYI: I will not be allowing Dubois bashing this summer.

Ok, thanks.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This is the player I am most concerned about going forward. For a big guy, you would think he would have thrived working in the tight confines of a Boston series, or at least not be held in check by it. He was completely neutralized by Boston and Tampa, outside of one game (game 4 vs TB). He is reliable defensively and that won't change, but his offensive game seemed to lean heavily on Panarin and Atkinson. He'll still have Cam, but he won't have the space he did last year. Big season upcoming for PLD. I am concerned for how it will go.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

"I love this scouting report from you. I will take it with a grain of salt. You're talking about an 18 year old junior player and call him a floater and lazy. Based on what? What you saw in one freaking game. And others are posting otherwise.

I remember a former CBJ player that you worshipped and thought would be a consistent 80 point player after the CBJ traded him. The guy the CBJ would regret trading. The team that got ripped off because the guy they got for him isn't a #1 dman. That guy was the epitome of a floater and a lazy player. But your same eyes didn't see that and now you want me to believe this. Lol."

I've watched him play in both games as well as in juniors. When Johansen was here he was a 1C and played great, don't act like you didn't love him when he was leading our team to the playoffs. You had this to say on him too "I've been critical of Joey. He has really taken a step lately. He has been far more aggressive. He's playing with a purpose. His faceoff skills are excellent. He can do a lot of things to make a difference in a game. I don't care if he ends up being a 1C or a hybrid all around beast. He has the potential to be a good player here for a long time."
Something went wrong and he had a bad season became a scapegoat and was traded for Jones who at the time was not playing at the level he is now. I like the trade now and Jones has become a great dman for us.

It's funny bc I thought PLD in these two games reminded me of Johansen from last season. I want him to be successful but I expect much much more out of a 3OA pick.

WJC don't tell anything about future success in the NHL, however having an average performance thus far in the tournament combined with a slow start in juniors, combined with a meltdown on the ice (when we were told he is a character guy) is giving me doubts on why we picked him instead of someone else.

He has time to turn it around but for all the praise he gets from people I expect more results. Still time left In The tourney to impress.

If you want to play that card I will take everything you say with a grain of salt considering you only have 10 posts from 2014-2015 way to stick with your team through the tough times.

Boy that aged well

 

[Monk]

This is the player I am most concerned about going forward. For a big guy, you would think he would have thrived working in the tight confines of a Boston series, or at least not be held in check by it. He was completely neutralized by Boston and Tampa, outside of one game (game 4 vs TB). He is reliable defensively and that won't change, but his offensive game seemed to lean heavily on Panarin and Atkinson. He'll still have Cam, but he won't have the space he did last year. Big season upcoming for PLD. I am concerned for how it will go.

I thought he played well in the Boston series. Came really close on a few just couldn't finish 'em off. I think he's one of those guys that will steadily improve year over year until his late 20s. He's only 20 right now.

 

[Cowumbus]

Zzzz

 

[Cowumbus]

Boy that aged well

Can’t tell if you are trying to say it didn’t or if you are giving me credit?

People called him a bust at 18 we all new that was dumb. His stats were bad for a 3OA and the bar for that high of a pick should be much higher than someone picked lower. Like I said, he had time to turn it around, and did. Glad he is doing well.