Rumor: Ozhiganov

[Ciao]

That first package you suggested seems ridiculous to me. Stay at home top pairing defensemen do not cost 20-21 year old proven first liners with elite potential, a first round pick and a top prospect. What I'm arguing is that with his history we should not be willing to pay the price Vancouver wants. With how good ur scouting and development has been since Hunter and Dubas came, the Leafs could already have the answer in Liljegren, or a player they draft within the next few years. The best thing about not overpaying for players with red flags is that having good scouting and development will often get you a player near that calibre for free if you have the patience.

I like this approach. The Leafs should develop their own talent at all positions.

 

[Cams]

I like this approach. The Leafs should develop their own talent at all positions.

Yes, while augmenting via trade or signing at a reasonable cost (esp trades). Can't build through the draft forever/exclusively, but you can't be handing out 1st, 2nd and prospect(s) too soon (which happens to be the situation right now - too soon).

 

[Zine]

Hmm..
I've been sceptical of Oz, but looked into it and what some posters are saying seemed to be true.
As soon as his connection was made to sign with Toronto, his ice time seems to have dropped significantly.

2016-17 season: 17:32
2016-17 playoffs: 15:37
2017-18 season: 14:15
2017-18 playoffs: 9:11

No wonder his stats have tanked. He's down over 3 minutes a game of regular season TOI and down almost half from last season to this year's playoffs.


Russian "coaching" at it again?

Oh good lord. Educate yourself before coming to conspiracy theory-like conclusions.

Ozhiganov’s role was reduced because CSKA added 3 olympic quality Dmen to this year’s roster (Marchenko, Nesterov and Robinson).
As such, every returning player (other than Kiselevich, the 4th olympian on the blueline) saw their ice time drop.

Regarding Ozhiganov’s play, meh. He has good size and raw talent, but I question his hockey sense big time. Someone who always leaves you wanting more.

 

[deletethis]

Ozhiganov’s role was reduced because CSKA added 3 olympic quality Dmen to this year’s roster (Marchenko, Nesterov and Robinson).
As such, every returning player (other than Kiselevich, the 4th olympian on the blueline) saw their ice time drop.

Did you watch Marchenko and Nestorov actually play NHL defense as recently as 2016-17? If this dude ain't better than both of them, it's got to be a hard pass. Only a conspiracy to limit the player's usage could possibly explain why an NHL team would continue to be interested.

Oh good lord. Educate yourself before coming to conspiracy theory-like conclusions.

RBAY

Further more, Ozhiganov has been a healthy scratch this playoffs playing in only 5 of 21 games. He was the 7th-8th defenseman on their depth chart.

 

[Zine]

Did you watch Marchenko and Nestorov actually play NHL defense as recently as 2016-17? If this dude ain't better than both of them, it's got to be a hard pass. Only a conspiracy to limit the player's usage could possibly explain why an NHL team would continue to be interested.



RBAY

Further more, Ozhiganov has been a healthy scratch this playoffs playing in only 5 of 21 games. He was the 7th-8th defenseman on their depth chart.

Ozhiganov's attractiveness is his raw tools and size (especially for the small ice) probably moreso than his current level of play. Nonetheless, yes, he's currently not as good as the players ahead of him on CSKA stacked blueline.

This situation reminds me of Vancouver and Edmonton's interest in Tryamkin and Paigin; like Ozhiganov, huge guys with untapped potential who were moderate-level KHLers before leaving for the NHL. Tryamkin immediately excelled at NHL level, Paigin was awful. It's a crapshoot, not some 'Russian conspiracy' to keep the man down.

 

[Al14]

The icing thing is a running joke between Salt and myself

Gardiner is massively underrated on here because he makes the odd mistake trying to make things happen and how he's the one getting beaten over the head for game 7 when our goaltender was an absolute sieve is just incredible

He's a 50 point line driving 2nd pair defenseman who's carrying his partner and the primary puck mover on his pair

Unless he wants something ridiculous contract wise we should sign him asap

Sign Carlson and push Zaitsev down don't get rid of Gardiner

Interesting take. I find that Gardiner makes an odd mistake all too frequently for my liking. He prefers to let the fore checkers have the puck instead of risking being hit. He is often too slow to get to the puck on a shoot in, and, often fails to move the puck effectively using his skating or passing abilities.

JMHO.

 

[cannucky]

I want him to play good D. We don't need more offensive skill and crappy D.

Couldn't agree more , 1 Reilly is already 1 too many .

 

[saltming]

Interesting take. I find that Gardiner makes an odd mistake all too frequently for my liking. He prefers to let the fore checkers have the puck instead of risking being hit. He is often too slow to get to the puck on a shoot in, and, often fails to move the puck effectively using his skating or passing abilities.

JMHO.

I humbly share your humble opinion. It actually drives me nuts.

 

[nuck]

Do you really think, that anybody having a conversation about Tanev, is unaware of the player he is, and his history?

It's like saying.. hey, we're are going downhill skiing... and you reply, but did you know there will be snow on the ground?

We aren't talking about earth shattering breaking news here.

If Tanev were a 82 game player, with his capabilities, we'd be talking about Marner or Nylander, Lily and a first.... to obtain him. Nobody is talking about that, and even Vancouver fans wouldn't.

He's a first round pick, and a couple of conditional picks based on games played... up to 2018 1st, 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd... if he player more than 60 or 70 games. Shared risk.

I don't think he costs quite that much, although the Canucks may have been fishing for that, hence him still being there. A 1st and a decent prospect I think. Yes he is hurt a lot but as long as he can roll out for the playoffs he works for me. If the Jets are actually interested in moving Myers the Leafs have two options. I know fans don't make the trades but it is interesting the Jets board is not nearly as high on Myers as the Canucks board is on Tanev. I like either one, and neither scalps the Leafs enough to keep them out of the FA market. I am pretty happy with Hainsey's play this year but he logged too many minutes and it caught up with him. He will be a nice injury fill in for Tanev or Myers.

 

[shortfuze]

Stop falling for the propaganda about Tanev! He's a decent journeyman who should be virtually worthless because he's paid at least $1.5M too much for what he delivers.

Doesn’t journeyman mean he has been around the league? Traded quite a few times.

 

[Kiwi]

Interesting take. I find that Gardiner makes an odd mistake all too frequently for my liking. He prefers to let the fore checkers have the puck instead of risking being hit. He is often too slow to get to the puck on a shoot in, and, often fails to move the puck effectively using his skating or passing abilities.

JMHO.

He's a 50 point defenseman that plays the most even strength minutes on this team, tilts the ice in our favour and carrys a partner who can't move the puck to save himself and he's by far our 2nd best defenseman

That far out ways his negatives

I humbly share your humble opinion. It actually drives me nuts.

May I humbly say your wrong Salt

Your so used to guys icing the puck and treating moving the puck out of there own zone like it's a contagious disease you've forgotten what a good defenseman looks like

 

[saltming]

May I humbly say your wrong Salt

Your so used to guys icing the puck and treating moving the puck out of there own zone like it's a contagious disease you've forgotten what a good defenseman looks like

Haha touché
Perhaps my friend but don't get me wrong. I feel gardiner is a gifted hockey player and can move the puck like few others. I'm just talking about how he usually saunters back for the puck letting the forechecker catch him.
Granted he still wins the puck back a lot but why even give the forechecker a chance?
At least after polak ices the puck he icea the forechecker too haha

 

[Kiwi]

Haha touché
Perhaps my friend but don't get me wrong. I feel gardiner is a gifted hockey player and can move the puck like few others. I'm just talking about how he usually saunters back for the puck letting the forechecker catch him.
Granted he still wins the puck back a lot but why even give the forechecker a chance?
At least after polak ices the puck he icea the forechecker too haha

Gardiner is one of those guys you've got to love for the things he does do rather than the things he doesn't

We're a better team with Gardiner on the ice and if Zaitsev is the other 2nd pairing D on this team Gardiner has to be stapled to him 5v5, there is no better option whilst Dermott is developing on the bottom pair

 

[deletethis]

Doesn’t journeyman mean he has been around the league? Traded quite a few times.

No it doesn't. It means "servicable, mediocre but useful".

 

[LeafFever]

Couldn't agree more , 1 Reilly is already 1 too many .

Rielly is a true #1 D.

 

[ULF_55]

Interesting take. I find that Gardiner makes an odd mistake all too frequently for my liking. He prefers to let the fore checkers have the puck instead of risking being hit. He is often too slow to get to the puck on a shoot in, and, often fails to move the puck effectively using his skating or passing abilities.

JMHO.

Gardiner is as good as he is bad.

Unfortunately, in the playoffs you can't just brush off mistakes like you can during the 82 game marathon.

You can't even say match him up with a good d-partner, because he gets beat by his own man, makes one on one blunders and poor decisions that are costly when you never know which Andersen is in net.

Perhaps a team that is struggling to make the playoffs could have a better use than a team like the Leafs that should be close to a playoff guarantee for the next decade.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Doubt he is used in the AHL, because the Leafs don't need RHD down there.

I still think ideally he makes Carrick expendable and becomes the 7th defenseman with the ability to step into the lineup. I think he PK's so he could give Hainsey some breaks and properly replace Polak.

However I am not so sure if he's the only answer on defense if he just directly replaces Polak and does nothing else.

Ya, hope there's something better brewing and this is not our only hope/option.

 

[saltming]

Gardiner is one of those guys you've got to love for the things he does do rather than the things he doesn't

We're a better team with Gardiner on the ice and if Zaitsev is the other 2nd pairing D on this team Gardiner has to be stapled to him 5v5, there is no better option whilst Dermott is developing on the bottom pair

The bolded could be said for every player from hyman to polak.
Again I'm not saying I dislike gardiner, I'm saying his lazy backchecks have got to go.
Consider it constructive criticism.

 

[Kiwi]

The bolded could be said for every player from hyman to polak.
Again I'm not saying I dislike gardiner, I'm saying his lazy backchecks have got to go.
Consider it constructive criticism.

Unfortunately for those two you mentioned there not in the same stratosphere talent wise as Gardiner, he's a match winner, he may make some pretty egregious mistakes but his game breaking/game controlling ability more than makes up for it

His flaws are being massively overblown and are one of the elements that make him a fantastic player

 

[saltming]

Unfortunately for those two you mentioned there not in the same stratosphere talent wise as Gardiner, he's a match winner, he may make some pretty egregious mistakes but his game breaking/game controlling ability more than makes up for it

His flaws are being massively overblown and are one of the elements that make him a fantastic player

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to accept gardiner and his brain farts you should extend that to all the players.
I get he's super talented but the other cogs are just as important.
Who was a better player in the playoffs? Hyman or Matthews? (I am not saying any slight here as I think Matthews was injured) but my point is if you pick and choose who is worth of your evaluation process it's a full blown bias.

 

[Kiwi]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to accept gardiner and his brain farts you should extend that to all the players.
I get he's super talented but the other cogs are just as important.
Who was a better player in the playoffs? Hyman or Matthews? (I am not saying any slight here as I think Matthews was injured) but my point is if you pick and choose who is worth of your evaluation process it's a full blown bias.

I'm willing to overlook mistakes if the player tilts the ice in our favour and adds something valuable to the team

Cogs are fine but to get the best out of guys like Hyman and Zaitsev you need line driving players to staple the to, there not going to show there talents without the Gardiner and Matthew's types pulling them along

Gardiner drives his pair, Rielly drives his pair and hopefully Dermott will drive his pair eventually, those are the guys you keep and build around not the complementary pieces

 

[saltming]

I'm willing to overlook mistakes if the player tilts the ice in our favour and adds something valuable to the team

Cogs are fine but to get the best out of guys like Hyman and Zaitsev you need line driving players to staple the to, there not going to show there talents without the Gardiner and Matthew's types pulling them along

Gardiner drives his pair, Rielly drives his pair and hopefully Dermott will drive his pair eventually, those are the guys you keep and build around not the complementary pieces

Agreed but you need varied ingredients to make a tasty dish.
What's good for one should be good for all

 

[Trapper]

I humbly share your humble opinion. It actually drives me nuts.

Our D men are good on an individual basis, (do your Corsi or whatever advanced stats) but IMO are inconsistent. Sometime wildly inconsistent and at the worst times. So you're never 100% sure when it hits. When you put that together on a team, 1 of 6 ok, 2 of 6, 3 of 6, it becomes trouble and you need to change the makeup.
It's the same for forwards, good individual talent but can't win puck battles/up intensity/200 foot awareness. 4 out of 12, 5/6/7 out of 12, problem.

 

[Kiwi]

Agreed but you need varied ingredients to make a tasty dish.
What's good for one should be good for all

When a guys moving the puck up ice he's going to turn it over sometimes, that's the nature of the game

People get on Gardiner's ass because he makes mistakes, I would point out that he's the one passing the puck out of his own zone, he doesn't flip the puck to center or wring it around the boards every play

That's a good thing

 

[saltming]

Our D men are good on an individual basis, (do your Corsi or whatever advanced stats) but IMO are inconsistent. Sometime wildly inconsistent and at the worst times. So you're never 100% sure when it hits. When you put that together on a team, 1 of 6 ok, 2 of 6, 3 of 6, it becomes trouble and you need to change the makeup.
It's the same for forwards, good individual talent but can't win puck battles/up intensity/200 foot awareness. 4 out of 12, 5/6/7 out of 12, problem.

Agreed. It specifically jakes lazy backchecks could be easily remedied. I'm not asking him to not have brain farts. I'm asking him to skate as fast as he can back to the puck so he has more time to think of what to do with it.