Ownership Commitment to Winning

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
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And some more general reading on the topic:

Mark Stone’s One-Year Deal Signals The End Of His Time With Senators [Opinion]


How signing bonuses impact Senators' chances of keeping Duchene, Stone - Sportsnet.ca

There are some term specifics from various levels of "insiders", but I don't have time to look further.


None of that answers the question i asked you though does it?

That's a whack of media speculation. We don't know what terms were offered to Stone. It may be he left because of a lack of bonus money, he may have left due to a lack of a commitment to winning, he may have left because he doesn't like Eugene, or any other reason.

He mentioned the commitment to winning when he agreed to terms with LV.

Personally my hope is that it was purely related to bonus money because both the teams and agents will be whispering that to Bettman. But we don't know that for certain
 
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DrunkUncleDenis

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Mar 27, 2012
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None of that answers the question i asked you though does it?

That's a whack of media speculation. We don't know what terms were offered to Stone. It may be he left because of a lack of bonus money, he may have left due to a lack of a commitment to winning, he may have left because he doesn't like Eugene, or any other reason.

He mentioned the commitment to winning when he agreed to terms with LV.

Personally my hope is that it was purely related to bonus money because both the teams and agents will be whispering that to Bettman. But we don't know that for certain
Don't be pedantic. Obviously none of us here know the details. Was a loaded question for you to ask. But there was plenty of rumblings throughout this process. I think I provided plenty of evidence of why the bonus structure was the main issue for Stone.
 

Silencio

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Nov 6, 2006
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I like McPhees comment on acquiring Mark Stone. A shot at the Senators as an organization

While I'm all for kicking Dorion and co. while they're down, McPhee made some terrible trades/couldn't win anything in Washington before lucking into the most favourable conditions ever given to an expansion team. Not sure he's really one to talk.
 

Acidrain66

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Jun 13, 2018
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While I'm all for kicking Dorion and co. while they're down, McPhee made some terrible trades/couldn't win anything in Washington before lucking into the most favourable conditions ever given to an expansion team. Not sure he's really one to talk.
Well he did built a winner Washington and Vegas did went to the finals in their first year.
 
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PeterSidorkiewicz

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While I'm all for kicking Dorion and co. while they're down, McPhee made some terrible trades/couldn't win anything in Washington before lucking into the most favourable conditions ever given to an expansion team. Not sure he's really one to talk.

You aren't going to win em all when it comes to trading. McPhee put competitive contenders on the ice year in and year out, to me that's what you ask for with a GM. Yes he did have that one terrible trade though in Washington that he will probably never live down.
 

Cosmix

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Another way of looking at this is this market cannot afford to ice a competitive team with an 85+ million cap.

And this is a problem.

Idk why there is an expectation that it is on Melnyk to float the gap between revenues and where expenses would be spending to the cap plus beefed up operations.

I am not going to say people are bad fans, i don't go often enough myself. But this market is collapsing and there is a risk that it becomes unsustainable.

Hopefully by Thursday we have some positive news

I tend to agree with you regarding team revenues and financing issues. Small market Canadian teams cannot match the big teams in player compensation. Plus there are the tax issues.

The best we can hope for is an ownership change to someone who has the financial resources to support an NHL team.

Once ownership is addressed, the other issues including a new GM and management team, plus coaching can be addressed.
 

Cosmix

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Don't be pedantic. Obviously none of us here know the details. Was a loaded question for you to ask. But there was plenty of rumblings throughout this process. I think I provided plenty of evidence of why the bonus structure was the main issue for Stone.

I suspect signing bonus was a big issue for both Stone and Duchene, along with not signing past and current stars (no commitment to putting a high quality roster on the ice). The team is not making competitive offers consisting of salary, bonus and no trade clauses.
 

JD1

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Sep 12, 2005
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Don't be pedantic. Obviously none of us here know the details. Was a loaded question for you to ask. But there was plenty of rumblings throughout this process. I think I provided plenty of evidence of why the bonus structure was the main issue for Stone.

obviously none of us knows the details but you presented it as fact...it's speculation, not fact. it might be well rumoured speculation but it isn't fact

stone didn't comment on not being able to come to terms. he did comment on a commitment to winning. had he commented on the former I'd be more inclined to accept the speculation

either way it doesn't matter. the team is hard pressed to remain competitive
 

Pangu

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Jun 20, 2005
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People should just ask their MPs to implement a wealth tax on Canadian multi-millionaires living in tax havens. Its a fair policy and it would mostly serve to help the good folks of Ottawa in getting rid of this terrible ownership group.
 

Transplanted Caper

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This cycle isn't going to end until there's new ownership.

Period.

We all know this.

Whether you think it's Melnyk's fault or not, the fanbase has turned on him and no longer trusts a word out of his mouth, and they're going to spend their dollars elsewhere.

This is essentially it, from my perspective.

Granted, I'm not as connected to the thinking of the fanbase as any of you, but growing up and living here, I think one of the bigger mistakes the national media, ownership, and management are making is viewing this as a two year story. It's not. It's a 16 year story. Yes, Melnyk came in and saved the team, and yes he was rightly praised for it at the time, but it didn't take long (as far back as the Cup run if not before) for the bloom to come off the rose a bit.

The team was contending, management was experienced and stable, and fans were filling the arena, so it wasn't as big a deal that Melnyk was, let's say, the team's idiot uncle. He said dumb things, people would roll their eyes, and in the back of their minds wished someone else owned the team. He was an irritant. The fans loved the team, but Melnyk wasn't exactly Mike Ilitch, for instance.

Since then, things have obviously only gotten worse. Longtime players leaving, especially Alfredsson, have burned away any shred of credibility Melnyk had left, credibility he already set on fire each time he opened his mouth in the last several years. And while not centrally (or publicly in terms of commentary) the only reason for the fan's disdain for Melnyk, Alfredsson certainly serves as a pretty telling anecdote for it. He grew up in another country, but loves Ottawa enough to raise his family here and become a Canadian citizen, but wants nothing to do with Melnyk. If Alfredsson doesn't trust the organization, why should anyone else?

I think the fanbase has reached a breaking point (a point that's a long time coming and built up over years) because there's no one left. Even as Melnyk irritated and annoyed and angered people, there was always someone the fans could take seriously. Whether it was Bryan Murray, or Alfredsson, or Karlsson, or Stone, or even going back to people like Jacques Martin. Yeah, players and coaches and managers have been critiqued over the years, that's part of being a fan, but at least when they spoke or were doing their job fans were left with the sense, however low a bar it is, that this organization resembled a normal hockey operation.

And as talented as the young pieces are, they're young, and they're new, and they haven't built up a long-term connection with fans (this is obviously not anyone's fault, just the nature of tenure). They can't speak for the team and build that credibility, and nor should they have to.

Until Melnyk goes, I don't see anything changing. Yes, there's good young pieces, yes there are good prospects coming, yes draft pick capital is important, but it only works and fans are only going to believe in it if the organization is functional enough to bring it all together, and there's no evidence ownership or management can do that, let alone even acknowledge the problems are systemic and the last 2 years are a symptom, and not the disease.
 

hawthy

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Mar 31, 2010
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Caught it on TGOR.
Paraphrasing here but said that a player of Stones caliber are rarely ever available. Those type of guys are the guys you draft, build, retain and keep for their entire career

"Players this good aren't available through trade very often. Usually you draft a player like this, and you hold onto him and he plays his whole career with you."

- George McPhee
 

Calvin123

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Sep 18, 2006
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This is essentially it, from my perspective.


Until Melnyk goes, I don't see anything changing. Yes, there's good young pieces, yes there are good prospects coming, yes draft pick capital is important, but it only works and fans are only going to believe in it if the organization is functional enough to bring it all together, and there's no evidence ownership or management can do that, let alone even acknowledge the problems are systemic and the last 2 years are a symptom, and not the disease.

This post captures everything almost perfectly. Awesome post. So well done it's hard to believe you could be a Leaf's fan ;)
 

NyQuil

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Jan 5, 2005
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This post captures everything almost perfectly. Awesome post. So well done it's hard to believe you could be a Leaf's fan ;)

He's one of the good ones. (look at that Joined date!)

You're always welcome around here @Transplanted Caper.

It's long-suffering guys like you that I choose to think about when Matthews scores his boatloads of goals. ;)

You deserve a little excitement and optimism.
 

coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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July 2019, sign Chabot to an 8 yr deal. Get a credible coach who picks his own coaching staff (hint: Alain Vigneault).

Actions, no more talk. That would commence a new commitment to winning.

Sign some UFA vets or trade for older , serviceable players. Get Methot back here to captain the team. He can be the new Cunneyworth teaching the young prospects like Alfie, Redden, Phillips, Bonk, Yashin, etc...

That , to me, looks like a commitment to winning. And Dorion only talk about prospects and scouting. Find someone else to represent the team on the mic. Melnyk get a partner who pushes him into relative obscurity focusing on Lebreton.
 

Cosmix

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July 2019, sign Chabot to an 8 yr deal. Get a credible coach who picks his own coaching staff (hint: Alain Vigneault).

Actions, no more talk. That would commence a new commitment to winning.

Sign some UFA vets or trade for older , serviceable players. Get Methot back here to captain the team. He can be the new Cunneyworth teaching the young prospects like Alfie, Redden, Phillips, Bonk, Yashin, etc...

That , to me, looks like a commitment to winning. And Dorion only talk about prospects and scouting. Find someone else to represent the team on the mic. Melnyk get a partner who pushes him into relative obscurity focusing on Lebreton.

You had me up to when you said to get “Methot” back. Methot is just about done as a player.

More is required including a new owner with deep pockets, a new GM and management team, and a new experienced successful coaching staff.
 

InTkachukWeTrust

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Nov 10, 2013
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It's definitely true there's no commitment to winning by this owner because I believe he doesn't want to own the team anymore.

I believe the league isn't letting Melnyk sell the team right ow because they're not getting the value they want

I'm sure there's buyer who want to "buy low" on the team. Melnyk would be dumb to sell at this low and leave probably 100m+ on the table.

Bettman will speak to buyers and get them to anti up. I would bet the Sens sell for 550mil because let's be honest that's what's their worth, not these 400mil offers.
 

topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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Yep agree with most everything here,you cant budget your way to anything more than being a budget team....Iam not saying spend like a drunken sailor ...But give the team the resources to build up to a cup team,and make sure we arent being beaten in the race for any type of talent that we require...This fanbase deserves this ,at the very least
 

Gil Gunderson

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May 2, 2007
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It's definitely true there's no commitment to winning by this owner because I believe he doesn't want to own the team anymore.

I believe the league isn't letting Melnyk sell the team right ow because they're not getting the value they want

I'm sure there's buyer who want to "buy low" on the team. Melnyk would be dumb to sell at this low and leave probably 100m+ on the table.

Bettman will speak to buyers and get them to anti up. I would bet the Sens sell for 550mil because let's be honest that's what's their worth, not these 400mil offers.
I think he still wants to own it but expects a Vegas-like miracle every year.
 
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Upgrayedd

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Oct 14, 2010
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Yep agree with most everything here,you cant budget your way to anything more than being a budget team....Iam not saying spend like a drunken sailor ...But give the team the resources to build up to a cup team,and make sure we arent being beaten in the race for any type of talent that we require...This fanbase deserves this ,at the very least

Agreed, the Sens are a "budget" team in that they do everything seemingly aimed at spending as little as possible and then label it a budget whereas real teams set a known budget at the beginning of a period using forecasts etc... and work towards tangible goals.
 
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