Ovechkin not in the top 50 in goalscoring

[Iapyi]

Were do these ideas come from? Check out some of WHLs leading scorers of all time, and compare their stats to what they had in the NHL. You have guys that were 0.5 ppg players in the NHL that suddenly became 1.4 ppg players in the WHA, and when they later merged back to the NHL they...drumroll...went back to 0.5 ish territory.

You should have read the entire post as it accommodated and recognized the fact the WHA was a weaker league. Of course many people only see what they want to see. Sometimes ya gotta open your

 

[Iapyi]

And you know why Ovechkin doesnt get assists. Right?

LOL - Ovechkin has 589 career assists thus far in the NHL. You should maybe do a 14 second reference search before making such asinine claims.

 

[Beukeboom]

You should have read the entire post as it accommodated and recognized the fact the WHA was a weaker league. Of course many people only see what they want to see. Sometimes ya gotta open your

Fair enough. But how then could Hull's goals be roughly transitioned? He benefited from the easier competition for sure.

 

[Iapyi]

Fair enough. But how then could Hull's goals be roughly transitioned? He benefited from the easier competition for sure.

I would suggest it depends on how much weight one would give the WHA #s. I suspect it would be hard to find a consensus on it.

 

[aufheben]

Awwww. You are literally the only person who holds this despicable attitude. Personally, I know numerous hockey people who agree with me. It may help you to grow once you realize that this internet forum is NOT a microcosm of hockey opinion and knowledge. It's calculated that close to 90% of the posters here have never even played hockey. That in it's own right is okay but the nuances of the game are more important then a little bit of sizzle.

Accept it or not.

Link?

 

[Iapyi]

Link?

Gaetz.

 

[McShogun99]

25 years after Ovi breaks Gretzky’s record you’ll see people talking about how Ovi had it easy during the early 2000’s because players in 2055 are better defensively and have better systems.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Is he top 50 yet?

 

[aufheben]

Gaetz.

I think my internet is out of batteries, I clicked your link and nothing happened?

 

[Beukeboom]

I think my internet is out of batteries, I clicked your link and nothing happened?

Hence the nickname "the Missing Link"

 

[Iapyi]

I think my internet is out of batteries, I clicked your link and nothing happened?

Hmmm. Rather than being out of batteries maybe the ones you're using have run out of charge. Did you try putting new ones in? Other than that sorry I can't help anymore but I hope you figure it out.

 

[bobc222]

It is completely false that it is completely false about him not being a very good overall player.

Being a good overall hockey player means that, on balance, your overall contribution to your team is well above an average player. Ovechkin's contributions are well above an average player. I believe the term you are looking for is well-rounded. However, just because you believe Ovechkin isn't well-rounded doesn't make him "not very good overall"--certain attributes (see: GOAL SCORING), matter more than other attributes when assessing how "good" a player is overall. It is simply not the case that fighting, puck deflections etc are nearly as important as goal scoring.

Thus, because Ovechkin is so dominant in one particular trait that also happens to be one of the most important traits, and good at a number of other important traits, he is a good player overall, even if he isn't elite at every single particularity related to ice hockey.

 

[Iapyi]

Being a good overall hockey player means that, on balance, your overall contribution to your team is well above an average player. Ovechkin's contributions are well above an average player. I believe the term you are looking for is well-rounded. However, just because you believe Ovechkin isn't well-rounded doesn't make him "not very good overall"--certain attributes (see: GOAL SCORING), matter more than other attributes when assessing how "good" a player is overall. It is simply not the case that fighting, puck deflections etc are nearly as important as goal scoring.

Thus, because Ovechkin is so dominant in one particular trait that also happens to be on of the most important traits, and good at a number of other important traits, he is a good player overall, even if he isn't elite at every single particularity related to ice hockey.

That's one of the beauties of the English Language, many
terms can be interpreted different. Ovechkin clearly has value.

 

[TeeTee]

This whole post puzzles me.

"for all the lame sauce bellyaching we hear about how poor Ovechkin has had to miss games [partially at least because of him wanting more money leading to an entire season being missed and portions of two (2) - not that he was the sole player in on this]"
-> If you are talking about Ovechkin, this is false. He missed the first season because of a lockout, not a choice. And then missed parts of 3 seasons due to another lockout + COVID. Not anything to do with his own choices or from being injured.

"Hull played 7 seasons [] really only 6 seasons as he only played in 4 games in 78-79 [] He scored 303 goals in the WHA, these goals could roughly be transitioned to the NHL."
-> Hull played in the WHA in his 34 to 39 year old seasons, and there is no way you can translate those WHA goals into NHL goals. The WHA was a joke at the time. There were guys who couldn't score more than 20 goals in the NHL that went to the WHA and potted 50. Ovechkin has 2 more goalscoring titles than Hull had, despite playing a more competitive international NHL.

"Phil Esposito - won the goal scoring title an incredible six (6) times in a row. It really is odd how he gets so little fan fare but a large casual fan base crusade which disparages him simply because he was on the same team as Bobby Orr has had a negative impact. Ovechkin has never been able to really come close to this achievement."
-> 7 Rockets in 8 years is just as impressive of an achievement than 6 in a row. So is 9 overall rockets vs. 6. Ovechkin did all that without having a top-4 player of all time feeding him. Ovechkin's goal finishes blow him out of the water.

"Ovechkin is a good goal scorer, though not particularly good as an overall player, which all of the above guys were."
-> Ovechkin is not just a "good" goalscorer, he is at minimum one of the best all time, and at best THE best all time. And it is also completely false that he is not good as an overall player. That's just laughable. He's been top-20 in points every year of his career (might have been one that he wasn't), won NINE rockets, and has 50% more goals than anyone since coming into the league, and has won THREE harts and Lindsays. If that doesn't make him a good player 'overall' - then there might only be a few good players in league history.

You say he is more than a goal scorer and then cite his accomplishments as a goal scorer to somehow prove your point?

 

[Iapyi]

You say he is more than a goal scorer and then cite his accomplishments as a goal scorer to somehow prove your point?

I'm intrigued by how defensive some people get at any slight trace of criticism to their idols.

Players like Ovechkin and E.Karlsson are/were good at certain aspects of the game. Good for them. However, as soon as a factual critique enters the equation some people act like their idol can do no wrong and go off on tangents trying to "protect" them. Often these harangues include personal attacks.

What this does is generate a lot of needless animosity which creates useless pissing matches and all but effectively eliminates constructive dialogue.

 

[Fataldogg]

Now we will need to rename the thread "Ovechkin not in the top-2 in goal scoring."

 

[Aliceanna]

There will come a day that Alexander Ovechkin is not a threat to the top goal scorers in the league, but I submit that it is not this day.

These boards are famous for not understanding that he has ups and downs or when those ups and downs come. He generally starts fairly slow (for him). Especially in a shortened season. Often with a new coach (this is his 7th or 8th--even I can't keep them all straight--new coach in his 15-year career). Then, he starts becoming more consistent, right around the halfway mark of the season--regardless of when that halfway mark comes. Until he explodes all over everything and everyone for a while, before calming down a bit, sometimes then having a late-season mini-explosion, especially when a particular milestone is in sight (be it a season or career marker).

This is a short season, starting in mid-January, so it's weird and out of rhythm and how can we know how he'll do? Well, we do have a previous season to judge him against. One that also started in mid-January. Granted, he was 8 years younger, but he also had 6 fewer Rocket Richard trophies then (not counting the one he earned that season. He had earned 2 total before that season).

The last time Ovi played in a season that started in mid-January, he had an abysmal start. He wasn't scoring, he looked slow and out of sorts. Some people blamed the "new" coach, but he'd played under that coach the entire prior season. He didn't score his first goal until the 5th game. He only had 5 goals by his 13th game. After 20 games, he only had 8 goals and these boards were melting down about him. At 25GP of that season, the same point where he is now, Alexander Ovechkin had 9 goals.

There were 23 games left in that season. Ovechkin ended the season with 32 goals. The first 25 games, he scored at a .36 GPG rate. The remaining 23 games, he scored at a 1.43 GPG rate.

I do not believe he will do that this year. Obviously. That's freaking insane! But over the whole season? That's a GPG rate of .67 a good bit, but still only a bit, above his career GPG rate of .61.

This season, which started in mid-January, in which Ovi had an entirely new coach and new system, he had 2 goals in his first 5 games. He had scored 6 in his first 13. After 20 games, he only had 8 goals and these boards were melting down about him. At 25GP of this season, Alexander Ovechkin has 12 goals.

He probably won't score at a 1.43 GPG for the remaining 27 games the Caps have to play this season. But he doesn't have to. If he scores at his career average .61 rate for the rest of the season, he'd get 28 for the season, and would surpass Marcel Dionne (731) for 4th on the All-Time list with 734.

However, Ovi loves a milestone, and he's never had a season where he didn't score 30 goals. I can't imagine he'd want to let Covid make this the first one. He'd have to score at a total .67 GPG rate for his remaining 27 games to hit 30. Maybe that's tough, considering his slow start, and 8 years ago, he had to score at such a ridiculously high rate to achieve a final overall .67. But this season, he only has to have an overall season GPG rate of .58 to get there.

It's certainly easy to imagine, if you're used to watching him play.

I wanted to revisit this post, because the numbers are very interesting. Since I made this post on March 17, Ovi has played in 16 games. He has scored 12 goals. That's a GPG of .75.

He only needs one goal to tie Marcel Dionne and 2 to pass him and hold 5th all-time.

He needs 6 goals in the remaining 11 games to end the season with 30, which would be the 16th straight season he's scored 30 or more goals, the most in NHL history. He needs a GPG rate of .55 to accomplish that.

Matthews will likely win the Rocket this season, but Ovi will probably be 2nd (he's currently 3rd in the race), and if he keeps his scoring pace at the .75GPG he's been at since St. Patrick's Day, he'll end with the number Matthews is at now, 32.

 

[RorschachWJK]

This thread has aged extremely well...

 

[AssaultPK]

Why are people still always doubting the STANLEY CUP CHAMPION great 8?

 

[Gurglesons]

It's pretty funny to see Crosby top ten in PPG and Ovechkin top 3 in goals as per usual even at their age.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

It's pretty funny to see Crosby top ten in PPG and Ovechkin top 3 in goals as per usual even at their age.

I think that people will continue to make the "Sid/Ovi is done as a top player," "What's wrong with the Pens/Caps," "Insert other thread title here," etc every year until they inevitably are right, since at some point both the players and the teams will succumb to Father Time, just so they can get their, "Told ya" posts in.

Imagine calling yourself a fan of the sport and then spending all of your time looking for ways to tear down rare and tremendous talents that come around only so often. Must suck to go through life like that.

 

[Iapyi]

I think that people will continue to make the "Sid/Ovi is done as a top player," "What's wrong with the Pens/Caps," "Insert other thread title here," etc every year until they inevitably are right, since at some point both the players and the teams will succumb to Father Time, just so they can get their, "Told ya" posts in.

Imagine calling yourself a fan of the sport and then spending all of your time looking for ways to tear down rare and tremendous talents that come around only so often. Must suck to go through life like that.

So true. Conversely it must suck to go through life doing the opposite and not acknowledging areas of non-strength and pretending a player is more then they are. Looking for ways to inflate a players value instead of just accepting what they are.

 

[PaulD]

Bruins Caps game.
OV shot gets blocked . He stops skating and watches as the play go the other way. Floating back as Bergevin scores. 5-3 Bruins.
OV a minus -3 after two periods.
Don't worry OV . Lost More powerplays coming your way.

 

[Iapyi]

Bruins Caps game.
OV shot gets blocked . He stops skating and watches as the play go the other way. Floating back as Bergevin scores. 5-3 Bruins.
OV a minus -3 after two periods.
Don't worry OV . Lost More powerplays coming your way.

Either 2 or 3 of the goals against were essentially/partially his fault. But he has a great shot!!!

 

[PaulD]

Either 2 or 3 of the goals against were essentially/partially his fault. But he has a great shot!!!

Yea. Saw that.
Pkay full two minute poweplys with his stick up . Ha !

0ver 700 goals off 4 million shots