Confirmed Trade: [OTT/PIT] Matt Murray for Jonathan Gruden and 2020 2nd round pick

[Pinto Bean]

Last I checked they got a second, which is way higher than any of the predictions coming out of Pgh.

Sens had to give up a second and they will have to pay him a huge contract and pray he somehow rebounds.

Sens are taking all the risks here, meanwhile the Pens got back a nice asset to draft another young goalie and avoided investing a big contract into a struggling goalie.

Maybe MM if he went to a young ready made contender like Col I could see him rebounding.

He isn’t the type that will carry a bottom feeder like the Sens anywhere IMHO.

They got a late 2nd. You can perceive the value of a 50s+ pick all you like. I won't speak for what random fans were wanting for him but I certainly saw people asking for way more than a late 2nd.

If the Sens offer him a term of 3 years or less, then I don't really see any risk at all for the Sens. If he sucks then thats fine, Sens will be bad anyways and he'll just help with that all while giving us an actual goalie who can play some games while allowing our prospect G's develop.

If he bounces back then the Sens now have the goalie of the future. This is the whole low risk-high reward thing I keep talking about which you conveniently keep ignoring because you don't want the deal to look good for the Sens in anyway.

If they do offer him a massive term contract then I do see the risk in that, but at this point, none of that has happened. You like to focus so much on the negative contractual implications because its really the only potential negative aspect of the deal for the Sens, but that hasn't even come to reality yet. It's all just speculation on your part.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

They got a late 2nd. You can perceive the value of a 50s+ pick all you like. I won't speak for what random fans were wanting for him but I certainly saw people asking for way more than a late 2nd.

If the Sens offer him a term of 3 years or less, then I don't really see any risk at all for the Sens. If he sucks then thats fine, Sens will be bad anyways and he'll just help with that all while giving us an actual goalie who can play some games while allowing our prospect G's develop.

If he bounces back then the Sens now have the goalie of the future. This is the whole low risk-high reward thing I keep talking about which you conveniently keep ignoring because you don't want the deal to look good for the Sens in anyway.

If they do offer him a massive term contract then I do see the risk in that, but at this point, none of that has happened. You like to focus so much on the negative contractual implications because its really the only potential negative aspect of the deal for the Sens, but that hasn't even come to reality yet. It's all just speculation on your part.

Feel free to look up any Pgh media related to predictions of the Murray trade and see for yourself.

No one ever mentioned a first or top prospect, including all the fans I spoke with or heard on the radio.

Predictions were mostly a third at best, or just dumping him off before he screwed them in arbitration.

And it seems you don’t like hearing the reality of how MM has played the last few years, so you would prefer I pretend he’s played stellar hockey?

It’s not my problem you are having trouble coming to terms with who MM currently is.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lol now that Murray isn't on Pittsburgh, he has great career numbers and the Penguins got a terrible return. Very interesting 180 degree flip after all we heard was how bad Murray was and how the Penguins would get nothing for him.

Do people just genuinely hate the Penguins this much that they need to do these kind of mental gymnastics?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Pittsburgh media was predicting the Pens were going to lose Murray for nothing.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Murray needs a psychologist. He's not been right since his dad died. He's a big goaltender but plays like he's Darren Pang in net. When he's not confident, he makes himself so small in net and backs up against the pipes. His glove hand is below average. The worst thing about him is he makes the same mistake over and over again by making himself small in the net. He will drive you nuts leaving the upper corners exposed big time when he's hugging the post. Some players figured it out and it always looked like a damn glitch goal from NHL 20.

If Murray gets his confidence back he's a wall back there. If he doesn't get his confidence back, good luck. We haven't seen confident Murray in a few seasons.

 

[Pinto Bean]

Lol now that Murray isn't on Pittsburgh, he has great career numbers and the Penguins got a terrible return. Very interesting 180 degree flip after all we heard was how bad Murray was and how the Penguins would get nothing for him.

Do people just genuinely hate the Penguins this much that they need to do these kind of mental gymnastics?

117 Wins in 199 Games with a .914 save percentage. Anyone saying he didn't have great career numbers before or now are misinformed or lying to themselves

 

[Pinto Bean]

Feel free to look up any Pgh media related to predictions of the Murray trade and see for yourself.

No one ever mentioned a first or top prospect, including all the fans I spoke with or heard on the radio.

Predictions were mostly a third at best, or just dumping him off before he screwed them in arbitration.

And it seems you don’t like hearing the reality of how MM has played the last few years, so you would prefer I pretend he’s played stellar hockey?

It’s not my problem you are having trouble coming to terms with who MM currently is.

What? I don't like hearing the reality of how MM has played the last few years? You realize I've said like 5 times now that Matt Murray has been struggling. Which is why the Sens got him for so cheap.

This seems like a top tier case of reading what you want to read rather than taking in what is actually said. I challenge you to go back to my posts and read what actually has been said cause clearly your blind hatred for the perception of this deal is skewing your view.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Little need to trash the guy on the way out. It’s a win for both teams. Ottawa gets a starter with upside to be a stud again for very cheap, even more so since they have a million picks/prospects.

Pens got a decently high pick and a depth prospect in a situation where their leverage was near zero.

Could see Murray hitting All-Star levels and being the backbone of an Ottawa rebuild or a great trade chip. Could also see him failing to ever be true number 1, but I doubt he’ll be god awful or play himself out of the league. And if he fails at least Ottawa probably loses games and continues to get some high picks.

 

[Boud]

If you looked everywhere else, Murray wasn't worth squat with the diluted goalie poll. It just so happened that a team with 30 picks in the 1st and 2nd could afford to give up a mid 2nd to take a chance on a, still young, former 2 time cup winner. Doesn't mean he's worth it. If you're expecting Murray to come in and save your franchise, you sir, will be sadly mistaken.

I'm a Sens fan and honestly I don't think anyone is expecting him to be a savior or even to be great. Nilsson is injured and we needed replacement, we still have Hogberg who's at least a decent backup at this point based on his play last year but our younger guys (Daccord, Soogard, Gustavsson, Mandolese) still need a couple years.

I think the idea is that we can hopefully get good goaltending for a couple years here, maybe 2-3 years. Obviously the market is diluted but I feel like Ottawa is not a popular destination and I doubt we would've been able to really find someone decent that would've come in for a couple years. We had a lot of picks and it was easy to trade that pick for Murray hoping he can provide some good goaltending for a couple years here. He has experience winning the cup, we are a young group and having a guy that's been through that is valuable on it's own. It was pretty much just a good bet with his age and experience. Murray is from the area here, close to home so it just made a lot of sense.

 

[66-30-33]

So any news on an extension yet? figure 3 years 6M AAV.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What? I don't like hearing the reality of how MM has played the last few years? You realize I've said like 5 times now that Matt Murray has not been struggling. Which is why the Sens got him for so cheap.

This seems like a top tier case of reading what you want to read rather than taking in what is actually said. I challenge you to go back to my posts and read what actually has been said cause clearly you're not taking it in accurately.

It’s quite obvious you don’t understand how poorly he has played the last few years and your posts are filled with contradictions.

You are rambling on about how I’m “focused on the negative aspects of the contract”, yet don’t realize the context of why.

Again, it’s not my problem you don’t grasp the relationship between how poorly MM has played the last few years and why any team giving him a big contact is taking a huge risk.

Sens gave up a good asset for a struggling goalie that wants to score a huge deal he isn’t really worth.

Pens turned MM into another promising goalie prospect, they aren’t wasting cap on him anymore, and they just signed their all star goalie to a great deal.

Guess which team is in a better position here.

But do go on telling us how the Pens shit the bed with this trade.

 

[Pinto Bean]

It’s quite obvious you don’t understand how poorly he has played the last few years and your posts are filled with contradictions.

You are rambling on about how I’m “focused on the negative aspects of the contract”, yet don’t realize the context of why.

Again, it’s not my problem you don’t grasp the relationship between how poorly MM has played the last few years and why any team giving him a big contact is taking a huge risk.

Sens gave up a good asset for a struggling goalie that wants to score a huge deal he isn’t really worth.

Pens turned MM into another promising goalie prospect, they aren’t wasting cap on him anymore, and they just signed their all star goalie to a great deal.

Guess which team is in a better position here.

But do go on telling us how the Pens shit the bed with this trade.

I said you're focused on the contract ramifications rather than the transaction itself. You're focusing on something that hasn't even happened yet where I'm discussing the actual tangible transaction that has taken place to this point. You're also putting the worst-case scenario on a potential contract as a way to prove your hypothetical point. Of course you need to take the contract negotiations into consideration but there is no need to put such a negative twist on it at this point.

I''ve explained the risk of a long-term contract for the Sens and have also said that I'm hoping for a 3 year contract as it fits the Sens time-line far better.

The Sens gave up realistically nothing for a guy who COULD become their #1 (YES YES, i know murray is the worst thing ever) or for a guy who can at the least log some games for them while our even younger goalie prospects continue to grow.

At this point in time, this is a no lose trade for the Sens, with a chance of a huge pay-off. IF the Sens give him a 5-6 year contract then I'll agree that the Sens have now gained a major contractual risk.

 

[Pens1566]

It's a cap world, and for the foreseeable future, it's an actual salary world as well. You can't ignore either/contracts when evaluating the impact of a trade.

Sens assumed a rather large risk. One, arbitration might work out that they only have him for a season. Two, any long term contract would really require him to rebound to his ~'17 performance to be worth anywhere near what he's seeking. Likelihood of that happening while on a bottom feeder ... not something I'd gamble on.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I said you're focused on the contract ramifications rather than the transaction itself. You're focusing on something that hasn't even happened yet where I'm discussing the actual tangible transaction that has taken place to this point. You're also putting the worst-case scenario on a potential contract as a way to prove your hypothetical point.

I''ve explained the risk of a long-term contract for the Sens and have also said that I'm hoping for a 3 year contract as it fits the Sens time-line far better.

The Sens gave up realistically nothing for a guy who COULD become their #1 (YES YES, i know murray is the worst thing ever) or for a guy who can at the least log some games for them while our even younger goalie prospects continue to grow.

At this point in time, this is a no lose trade for the Sens, which a chance of a huge pay-off. IF the Sens give him a 5-6 year contract then I'll agree that the Sens have now gained a major contractual risk.

No, what you are doing is ignoring that this is a risk for the Sens and pretending they didn’t give up any assets.

They did in fact give up an asset, which is pretty valuable. They didn’t trade some low round pick for him.

Not only did they give up a good asset, they also have to pay MM a contract he hasn’t earned the last three years.

Now he is on a bad team, and you think it’s more likely he rebounds?

Based on what, exactly?

I have said all along if he goes to a team like Col he would likely rebound. However, I was pretty adamant that if a bad team lands him, I suspect he will continue to struggle.

Earlier you tried to take a dig at the Pens, thinking you were clever.

Yet the joke is really on you if you think it’s the Sens who made out on this deal.

Sens have all the risk now with a struggling goalie who wants paid.

Pens have a new promising goalie prospect thanks to the Sens and have Jarry making peanuts.

Once again, who is in the better situation here?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

People seem to be forgetting about the Expansion Draft when determining MM value...,,,

 

[Pinto Bean]

No, what you are doing is ignoring that this is a risk for the Sens and pretending they didn’t give up any assets.

They did in fact give up an asset, which is pretty valuable. They didn’t trade some low round pick for him.

Not only did they give up a good asset, they also have to pay MM a contract he hasn’t earned the last three years.

Now he is on a bad team, and you think it’s more likely he rebounds?

Based on what, exactly?

I have said all along if he goes to a team like Col he would likely rebound. However, I was pretty adamant that if a bad team lands him, I suspect he will continue to struggle.

Earlier you tried to take a dig at the Pens, thinking you were clever.

Yet the joke is really on you if you think it’s the Sens who made out on this deal.

Sens have all the risk now with a struggling goalie who wants paid.

Pens have a new promising goalie prospect thanks to the Sens and have Jarry making peanuts.

Once again, who is in the better situation here?

A late 2nd when Sens have 5000 prospects that are better then a prospect at that stage of the draft + like 10 more picks next draft. Just cause a late 2nd will be the 2nd best prospect in the Pens system does not make it a valuable piece. This was a nothing pick for the Sens. I'm not even going to pretend to know anything about whoever that Goalie is they picked but the chances he plays as many games in the NHL as Murray plays even this season are probably statistically low based on the history of goalies being picked in the 50+ range(I'm assuming).

He's been a good goalie in the past. He has a chance to rebound. He's still only 26.

Sens have risk if they offer him a super long-term contract. Negotiations are still taking place and they may come away with a very reasonable contract. No one knows at this point.

The Sens are in a better position here. They got their #1 goalie for the 2021 season (according to the GM) for little value. Hopefully they can get a fair contract for both sides.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

A late 2nd when Sens have 5000 prospects that are better then a prospect at that stage of the draft + like 10 more picks next draft. Just cause a late 2nd will be the 2nd best prospect in the Pens system does not make it a valuable piece. This was a nothing picks for the Sens.

He's been a good goalie in the past. He has a chance to rebound. He's still only 26.

Sens have risk if they offer him a super long-term contract. Negotiations are still taking place and they may come away with a very reasonable contract. No one knows at this point.

The Sens are in a better position here.

Ya I remember being delusional like you when the Pens blew and had all these assets I swore would all turn out.

Doesn’t quite work that way, sorry.

No matter how you want to spin it, the Sens have all the risk here and gave up more value than was expected for Murray.

Murray was basically a dump and again, feel free to delve into the Pgh media opinions if you are under the silly impression anyone outside of a few fans thought he had great value.

Pens have an all-star goalie on a beauty deal and a new promising goalie prospect.

Sens have to hope a guy who has struggled for three seasons will rebound on a bad team, and pay him top dollar to find out...

But ya... ya... Sens are in the better position. Yep.

Comical.

 

[Pinto Bean]

Ya I remember being delusional like you when the Pens blew and had all these assets I swore would all turn out.

Doesn’t quite work that way, sorry.

No matter how you want to spin it, the Sens have all the risk here and gave up more value than was expected for Murray.

Murray was basically a dump and again, feel free to delve into the Pgh media opinions if you are under the silly impression anyone outside of a few fans thought he had great value.

Pens have an all-star goalie on a beauty deal and a new promising goalie prospect.

Sens have to hope a guy who has struggled for three seasons will rebound on a bad team, and pay him top dollar to find out...

But ya... ya... Sens won. Yep.

Comical.

80% of the Sens prospects could blow and they'd still be able to build a reasonably strong team.

The Sens have risk if they offer him a long-term contract. The Sens have minimal risk if they offer him a 3 year contract (as explained in the past). I know you're dead set on assuming the worst contractual implications so I'm sure you're expecting a 6 year contract.

At this point in time, the sens have given up nothing of tangible value to them and now they can just hope that a fair contract is given to Murray.

 

[wej20]

If I was the Sens I'd rather have Murray than a late 2nd and Gruden. If I was the Pens I'm not feeling short changed by the late 2nd + Gruden return given the goalie market, the flat cap and Murray's lack lustre 19-20 season.

 

[Syckle78]

Lol now that Murray isn't on Pittsburgh, he has great career numbers and the Penguins got a terrible return. Very interesting 180 degree flip after all we heard was how bad Murray was and how the Penguins would get nothing for him.

Do people just genuinely hate the Penguins this much that they need to do these kind of mental gymnastics?

That's some toronto level cross on your back there,buddy. I can't cringe hard enough.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's some toronto level cross on your back there,buddy. I can't cringe hard enough.

Cool story bro

Both Penguins fans and Senators fans are happy with this trade. The mental gymnastics from some to dunk on the Penguins just looks pathetic on the part of those posters.

 

[Blacephalon]

Good trade for Ottawa. Gruden is a nothing prospect and Sens can afford to give up a second with all the picks they had as well as their very deep prospect pool. Now hopefully Murray can regain his old form.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

80% of the Sens prospects could blow and they'd still be able to build a reasonably strong team.

The Sens have risk if they offer him a long-term contract. The Sens have minimal risk if they offer him a 3 year contract (as explained in the past). I know you're dead set on assuming the worst contractual implications so I'm sure you're expecting a 6 year contract.

At this point in time, the sens have given up nothing of tangible value to them and now they can just hope that a fair contract is given to Murray.

So in your opinion paying a goalie that ends up struggling a lot of money is cool if it’s only three years?

Uh... ok.

And why is Murray taking a short term deal again when he can become a UFA and just walk?

 

[wej20]

So in your opinion paying a goalie that ends up struggling a lot of money is cool if it’s only three years?

Uh... ok.

And why is Murray taking a short term deal again when he can become a UFA and just walk?

I think a 3 year deal could be enticing for Murray, he wants a long term deal of course but I don't see that happening. If the choice is 3 years @ 4.5-5 million or 1 year @ whatever he gets at arbitration then I'd take the 3 years if I was in his shoes. Maybe they'll split the difference and go 2 years.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think a 3 year deal could be enticing for Murray, he wants a long term deal of course but I don't see that happening. If the choice is 3 years @ 4.5-5 million or 1 year @ whatever he gets at arbitration then I'd take the 3 years if I was in his shoes. Maybe they'll split the difference and go 2 years.

He just turned down 5x5 from Chicago.

Why would he turn around and accept a smaller deal from Ott?

Makes no sense.

He can just become a UFA if he doesn’t get a deal he likes.

He and his agent would have to be pretty high to take a short term deal at his age.