Other Domestic Leagues 2019/20

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I dont know this could be awful

 

[Savi]

I was surprised when I saw the article today. Couple of months ago it seemed like everyone in Holland was laughing at the idea of having a BeNe League.

I think we're still some ways away from actually forming one league, and I also still think there are a lot of cons against the idea which will have to further examined.

I think it could be great; I hope they set up the structure so there's some windfall to the clubs who don't make the first division cut immediately. I don't think they have to aim below France/Italy or maybe even Germany from a quality standpoint...the infrastructure is there to have a very strong league, though the population and appeal might not be high enough to challenge them in terms of marketing.

The infrastructure is there? Yeah, not in Belgium it's not our stadiums are old and wore down, Gent are the only team who are currently playing in a new, modern stadium. My team, Club Brugge, have been trying to get a new stadium built for 15 years now (there finally seems to be a set date which could be 2023 or 2024 - let's hope and pray it happens) but Belgium are literally the worst country in Europa to get something done. Most of our population are stuck in the middle ages and don't want any change, let alone brand new football stadiums in their neighbourhood. With every plan to built something (not just stadiums) within a couple of days there are a dozen protest groups who delay everything endlessly and eventually get these plans cancelled. Anderlecht needs a new stadium, so does Standard, so does Charleroi, etc. Our infrastructure is a joke compared to Holland's.

I also don't think we would automatically rival France or Germany if we merge. It would need some time, and some brilliant marketing, because as you say, population won't be high enough even with both countries combined we're not even close to France/Germany.. hell, not even Ukraine, Turkey or Poland.

 

[phisherman]

In theory wouldn't this lead to lesser teams from both countries playing in European competitions?

 

[YNWA14]

I was surprised when I saw the article today. Couple of months ago it seemed like everyone in Holland was laughing at the idea of having a BeNe League.

I think we're still some ways away from actually forming one league, and I also still think there are a lot of cons against the idea which will have to further examined.



The infrastructure is there? Yeah, not in Belgium it's not our stadiums are old and wore down, Gent are the only team who are currently playing in a new, modern stadium. My team, Club Brugge, have been trying to get a new stadium built for 15 years now (there finally seems to be a set date which could be 2023 or 2024 - let's hope and pray it happens) but Belgium are literally the worst country in Europa to get something done. Most of our population are stuck in the middle ages and don't want any change, let alone brand new football stadiums in their neighbourhood. With every plan to built something (not just stadiums) within a couple of days there are a dozen protest groups who delay everything endlessly and eventually get these plans cancelled. Anderlecht needs a new stadium, so does Standard, so does Charleroi, etc. Our infrastructure is a joke compared to Holland's.

I also don't think we would automatically rival France or Germany if we merge. It would need some time, and some brilliant marketing, because as you say, population won't be high enough even with both countries combined we're not even close to France/Germany.. hell, not even Ukraine, Turkey or Poland.

To clarify I meant more the footballing infrastructure with the amount of talent that comes through both leagues from the ground up and the tendency to have a lot of that talent shuffled around within in the leagues before they usually hit their prime. Higher revenues (which would be inevitable) and a stronger league could also lead to more of them staying longer, etc. It would probably be better for both NTs, also, IMO.

Like you said though there are other ramifications and it's still in nascent stages.

In theory wouldn't this lead to lesser teams from both countries playing in European competitions?

I don't see how. Or do you mean fewer? Because yeah I think they'd have fewer combined European spots, but should have a higher quality of team playing in those spots.

 

[YNWA14]

It would be a lot more fun to follow than Ligue 1 and probably better quality. And Serie A these days is a complete bore as well so it could be really interesting altough I don't like this new idea of countries getting together to have a domestic league...

I don't think the idea is new persay. I know that Netherlands and Belgium specifically have other combined leagues, North America has done it for a long time, etc. It makes sense in some areas like this one that are low population and close in proximity.

 

[phisherman]

I don't see how. Or do you mean fewer? Because yeah I think they'd have fewer combined European spots, but should have a higher quality of team playing in those spots.

That's what I meant. There would be some teams that will lose out on a CL spot that they normally would have gotten if the leagues were separate.

 

[Savi]

Well first of all, who knows if Dutch or Belgian clubs will even be allowed in the CL anymore at that time, after the big upcoming reformation in 2024

But yeah that's one of the many cons. For a lot of teams it will be that much harder to win something, because I fully expect teams like Ajax and Club Brugge to be the most dominant, and the UEFA will view the BeNe League is 1 country in terms of awarding European tournament tickets.

 

[YNWA14]

That's what I meant. There would be some teams that will lose out on a CL spot that they normally would have gotten if the leagues were separate.

Well first of all, who knows if Dutch or Belgian clubs will even be allowed in the CL anymore at that time, after the big upcoming reformation in 2024

But yeah that's one of the many cons. For a lot of teams it will be that much harder to win something, because I fully expect teams like Ajax and Club Brugge to be the most dominant, and the UEFA will view the BeNe League is 1 country in terms of awarding European tournament tickets.

Yeah, there's been some talk of giving an expanded number of tickets for their league but they wouldn't have the same as they do combined now for sure.

I think it could have a trickle effect that benefits most of the teams in the two countries. Higher revenues, more interest, more money reinvested buying from developing teams, etc. which also increases the prices that the teams can hold out from from other leagues and so on.

Overall, I think looking back in 10 years if it happens, it'll affect change in a good way for the clubs involved from the top down for the most part.

 

[robertmac43]

My one hesitancy would be the middle-bottom table clubs in both leagues. I'm not too privy on the Belgium and the Netherlands outside of the big teams and big prospects, but my guess is there could be some negative repercussions for the clubs that may already be struggling. How much money would the new second division be able to bring in without the bigger clubs coming to play them and vice-versa? Would the smaller clubs not go into financial turmoil?

 

[YNWA14]

My one hesitancy would be the middle-bottom table clubs in both leagues. I'm not too privy on the Belgium and the Netherlands outside of the big teams and big prospects, but my guess is there could be some negative repercussions for the clubs that may already be struggling. How much money would the new second division be able to bring in without the bigger clubs coming to play them and vice-versa? Would the smaller clubs not go into financial turmoil?

My guess is that if they're already struggling I don't see it getting much worse; bringing the two leagues together in a situation that could have a '1+1=3' situation in terms of marketability and competition could end up with a trickle down effect on the non top clubs. More money from external sources of revenue (TV, ads, etc.) as well as internal (buying from within the league, revenue sharing, etc.) plus a stronger financial stance in terms of how much they can afford to sell for to other leagues with a higher level of competition and inevitable higher wages should all work well. I think some teams will struggle with the change at first but it should, in theory, provide a better and more profitable base for everyone from the ground up overall (which will take time). I imagine if they're looking at doing something like this it's because they believe the potential benefits to be exponential rather than just adding whatever the two leagues have together.

 

[Pouchkine]

I don't think the idea is new persay. I know that Netherlands and Belgium specifically have other combined leagues, North America has done it for a long time, etc. It makes sense in some areas like this one that are low population and close in proximity.

But it never happened really in UEFA?

 

[Pouchkine]

My guess is that if they're already struggling I don't see it getting much worse; bringing the two leagues together in a situation that could have a '1+1=3' situation in terms of marketability and competition could end up with a trickle down effect on the non top clubs. More money from external sources of revenue (TV, ads, etc.) as well as internal (buying from within the league, revenue sharing, etc.) plus a stronger financial stance in terms of how much they can afford to sell for to other leagues with a higher level of competition and inevitable higher wages should all work well. I think some teams will struggle with the change at first but it should, in theory, provide a better and more profitable base for everyone from the ground up overall (which will take time). I imagine if they're looking at doing something like this it's because they believe the potential benefits to be exponential rather than just adding whatever the two leagues have together.

The benefits will be for the bigger teams only, they are the ones who want this and they know it would benefit them and hurt many smaller clubs.

Let's say teams like Groningen Twente are not part of the league for some years, it would be terrible for them and other small clubs like Den Haag let's say could go bankrupt if they never make it to that level...

 

[sabremike]

Thanks Jambos!

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Since, Stam left Feyenoord in October they haven't lost a single game. Only one loss in all competitions. Guess he was the issue.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Dest is a fantastic player... Should be a prime target for Barca. Enough with Roberto and offensive black hole Semedo.

 

[robertmac43]

Tristian Borges made his European debut over the weekend. First CPL player to do so!

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Rangers won at Celtic in the league and are two points back with a game in hand

How quickly 2 became 10

 

[Savi]

After 7 months, Salzburg have finally lost a league game, losing 3-2 to LASK tonight. Losing Håland and Minamino won't be easy for them.

LASK are also the new league leaders. Salzburg have won six titles in a row, LASK only won once, in 1965.

 

[maclean]

Slavia Prague also lost their first league game this weekend after losing Souček (to West Ham) and some other pieces in the winter. But they have a pretty solid lead (13 points as of right now).

A bit more spicy in the Czech news department is that Sparta Prague has fired their coach once again after a 0-2 loss (and general lacklustre performance) in the first game back. B-team trainer Václav Kotal will be taking over, becoming the team's ninth coach since 2017.

 

[Pouchkine]

AZ on the verge of beating Ajax in Amsterdam to draw level at the top of the table. Quite a race this year in the Eredivisie.

 

[Savi]

Brilliant game from AZ. Could have scored 5 or 6 easily today.

 

[HajdukSplit]

Just looking at the tables around Europe once again there is an exciting title race in Turkey, this season more teams involved, top four are separated by only 2 points but Trabzonspor and Istanbul Basaksehir have a game in hand. Even Besiktas who really struggled in the first half of the season are only eight points back which in Turkey isn't insurmountable

1. Trabzonspor 48 (-1)
2. Galatasaray 48
3. Sivasspor 48
4. Istanbul Basaksehir 46 (-1)
5. Besiktas 40

Next few weeks will give a clearer picture probably, Gala plays Sivasspor next week while two weeks from now Trabzonspor play IB while Gala hosts Besiktas. Just skimming through the fixtures Galatasaray still play all their direct title rivals within the next month

 

[Savi]

Turkish league always seem to go down to the final matchday.

I'll give a little Belgium update while I'm at it as well. There's 2 games to go in the regular season, with only one remaining spot in the Championship playoff to be decided. Club Brugge, AA Gent, Standard, Antwerp and Charleroi are already in. Surprise team KV Mechelen are currently holding on to that 6th spot (43 points), followed closely by defending champions RC Genk (41 pts) and Anderlecht (40 pts).
Anderlecht have never missed the playoffs since the format started but they're in a really though spot, if Mechelen wins their next game (at home against lowly Eupen), then Anderlecht are eliminated no matter what because Mechelen hold the tiebreaker over them. Genk play their next game against another bottom team, Oostende. On the final matchday, Genk host Mechelen

 

[Pouchkine]

So if Anderlecht misses out it means next year there will be 8 teams in the playoffs...

Any talk to get rid of this joke format?

 

[Savi]

So if Anderlecht misses out it means next year there will be 8 teams in the playoffs...

Any talk to get rid of this joke format?

There will definitely NOT be an expansion of the playoffs, I can tell you that much

Oh and there's plenty of talk. But it's almost impossible to change anything because any change needs at least 80% of the votes from all clubs. And since this is Belgium where no one ever seems to agree on anything, every single possible change gets downvoted, every single time.

You've got Genk and Gent who absolutely want to keep the playoff system and don't even want to listen to any other proposals. Club Brugge, Anderlecht and Standard want to back to a regular season only format with 18 or even 20 clubs. A lot of the smaller clubs want this as well. But a couple of midtable teams are still in favor of the playoff system. So Genk + Gent + only a few other teams just keep voting against changes which keeps the majority from getting that 80% needed.

edit: a bit more information on the voting system; the "big 5" teams have 3 votes (Brugge, Anderlecht, Standard, Genk and Gent), the 11 other teams from the top division have 2 votes, and the 8 teams from the second division have 1 vote each. That's 45 votes in total. For an 80% majority you need at least 36 votes. With both Genk and Gent voting against any proposal, you're basically stuck with a possible max of 39 votes and basically no margin of error. Only 2 other division 1 teams vote against and that's that.