Speculation: OT: Do you think the Tampa Bay Lightning can or will be the next NHL dynasty? (Edit: hahaha, nope)

[ColdSteel2]

With the injuries, there isn’t a whole lot they can do. Stamkos, Hedman, Johnson, Palat and Stralman are injury prone.

As for Cooper, perhaps it is time for a change. Did they ever announce the length of his extension? Hopefully it was only a 2 year deal.

The impact of coaching is extremely overrated though.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Cooper simply isn’t good at making adjustments or getting his team to flip it on. Maybe it’s not fair to compare these guys to the Hawks, but was there ever a point this series where you watched and thought “oh shit here come the Lightning!”??

What got things moving for Q getting fired was his inability to adjust to the Preds system and to let his players play like chickens with their heads cut off. Cooper just did the exact same thing. Injuries, yeah, but that’s an excuse for the 2nd round and on. The Lightning should’ve stomped the Jackets. They didn’t because their players didn’t have the mental fortitude to do what was necessary and because Cooper couldn’t adjust or motivate.

 

[LordKOTL]

They did not just win...it was utter humiliation of a 62 win, 128 point, +103 goal differential team. WOW! They upped the 2017 hawks cause that Blackhawks roster was nowhere close to as dominant in the regular season and or had the star power like the 2019 Lightning.

2019 Lightning season can only be described in one word, CHOKE

Yeah, This was the biggest chokejob. Puts a smile on my face...especially coupled with Pittsburgh getting swept as well. Now let's all enjoy the suffering

 

[ColdSteel2]

Cooper simply isn’t good at making adjustments or getting his team to flip it on. Maybe it’s not fair to compare these guys to the Hawks, but was there ever a point this series where you watched and thought “oh **** here come the Lightning!”??

What got things moving for Q getting fired was his inability to adjust to the Preds system and to let his players play like chickens with their heads cut off. Cooper just did the exact same thing. Injuries, yeah, but that’s an excuse for the 2nd round and on. The Lightning should’ve stomped the Jackets. They didn’t because their players didn’t have the mental fortitude to do what was necessary and because Cooper couldn’t adjust or motivate.

The Lightning were arguably a worse team on paper after the injuries. That doesn’t excuse getting swept, Cooper should have rallied the troops to win a game or two and buy them some time to heal. I guess we’ll find out soon how severe they were.

The main issue I see with Cooper is his team is heavily dependent on the power play. The power play just isn’t nearly as much of a factor in the playoffs. Any coach whose success is dependent on a top power play should be under a lot of scrutiny. The consistently great teams and coaches excel at even strength.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Champions find ways to overcome. Our 2015 team won two playoff series with three defensemen, and that was inarguably our worst championship team of the trio. And I say three because Keith was two defensemen, Timonen counted as negative, and a few guys were zeros.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

[QUOTE="ColdSteel2, post: 159791003, member: 108263"]The Lightning were arguably a worse team on paper after the injuries. That doesn’t excuse getting swept, Cooper should have rallied the troops to win a game or two and buy them some time to heal. I guess we’ll find out soon how severe they were.

The main issue I see with Cooper is his team is heavily dependent on the power play. The power play just isn’t nearly as much of a factor in the playoffs. Any coach whose success is dependent on a top power play should be under a lot of scrutiny. The consistently great teams and coaches excel at even strength.[/QUOTE]

Worse compared to the healthy version of the team, or worse than the Blue Jackets team?

If it's the latter, I disagree. The Lightning iced seven top-six quality forwards last night, three of which put up 90+ points this year.

They also still had lots of talent below that, and you could argue they had nobody in the lineup that's less than third-line quality except for maybe Paquette. That team is loaded, and they should've been to survive injuries. It's not like they were a one-line team that lost 1-2 forwards off that line.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Worse compared to the healthy version of the team, or worse than the Blue Jackets team?

If it's the latter, I disagree. The Lightning iced seven top-six quality forwards last night, three of which put up 90+ points this year.

They also still had lots of talent below that, and you could argue they had nobody in the lineup that's less than third-line quality except for maybe Paquette. That team is loaded, and they should've been to survive injuries. It's not like they were a one-line team that lost 1-2 forwards off that line.

As we’ve seen with the Hawks, it doesn’t matter how good your forwards are if you don’t have defensemen. Take Hedman and Stralman off that team all year and they don’t make the playoffs IMO. That’s where I’m coming from with that point.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Worse compared to the healthy version of the team, or worse than the Blue Jackets team?

If it's the latter, I disagree. The Lightning iced seven top-six quality forwards last night, three of which put up 90+ points this year.

They also still had lots of talent below that, and you could argue they had nobody in the lineup that's less than third-line quality except for maybe Paquette. That team is loaded, and they should've been to survive injuries. It's not like they were a one-line team that lost 1-2 forwards off that line.

As we’ve seen with the Hawks, it doesn’t matter how good your forwards are if you don’t have defensemen. Take Hedman and Stralman off that team all year and they don’t make the playoffs IMO. That’s where I’m coming from with that point.[/QUOTE]

So you think a team talented and loaded enough to win 62 games ends up missing the playoffs without their #1 defenseman?

If Hedman and Stralman are the sole differences between 30-ish wins and 62 wins, I think the league is greatly underrating the impact that defensemen have.

 

[ColdSteel2]

So you think a team talented and loaded enough to win 62 games ends up missing the playoffs without their #1 defenseman?

If Hedman and Stralman are the sole differences between 30-ish wins and 62 wins, I think the league is greatly underrating the impact that defensemen have.

The difference between the 2 teams was 15 wins, not 30, and defensemen are even more important in the playoffs. This is like if the Hawks tried to go on a Cup run without Keith and Hjalmarsson.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

The difference between the 2 teams was 15 wins, not 30, and defensemen are even more important in the playoffs. This is like if the Hawks tried to go on a Cup run without Keith and Hjalmarsson.

You said without Hedman and Stralman all year, the Lightning miss the playoffs. All teams that missed the playoffs had less than 40 wins, except the Canadiens.

 

[ColdSteel2]

You said without Hedman and Stralman all year, the Lightning miss the playoffs. All teams that missed the playoffs had less than 40 wins, except the Canadiens.

Ok, the orginal point was that the Jackets were the better team.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Ok, the orginal point was that the Jackets were the better team.

Right, and your argument is those two guys alone took a less than 40-win team and turned them into a 62 win team.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

The Lighting were banged up and Columbus added a lot at the deadline and were more talented then their record would indicate. That said, it's still a shocking result.

Curious to see how far Columbus can go now. The monkey is off their back and this feels like this could be the start of a long run.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Right, and your argument is those two guys alone took a less than 40-win team and turned them into a 62 win team.

My argument was that taking those 2 guys off the team puts them below the Jackets on paper and in the standings. Probably the Canadiens too. They only had 3 less wins. I don’t know where you are getting a 30 win difference from. Teams can get by with offense only in the regular season but will likely still miss the playoffs in a strong conference. And if they do make it in, we just saw what happens.

 

[Hawkaholic]

McDonagh had to play 25mins last night, and he isn't what he used to be, (-4), Eric Cernak had to play 23mins last night (he should be on the 3rd pair) (-3), and Jan Ruuta!!!!! had to play almost 18mins last night, and he wasn't good enough to play defense here.

It literally went from being an above average D to one of the worst in the league with no Hedman and Stralman. Look at the Hawks, they have a pretty bad D Corps, and a pretty great top heavy team like the Lightning and they didn't make the playoffs.

It was compacted with Vaselivsky not playing his A game throughout the whole series.

Not having Hedman takes a major impact on their offense. He runs things out there and is a rock defensively. It would be like the 2010 or 2013 Hawks not playing with Keith. You think the Hawks win vs NSH in 2010 with no Keith? Or vs DET in 2013 without Keith?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

My argument was that taking those 2 guys off the team puts them below the Jackets on paper and in the standings. Probably the Canadiens too. They only had 3 less wins. I don’t know where you are getting a 30 win difference from. Teams can get by with offense only in the regular season but will likely still miss the playoffs in a strong conference. And if they do make it in, we just saw what happens.

You said they're a non-playoff team without Hedman and Stralman.

The only teams with more than 40 wins made the playoffs but Montreal. But I'll give you the point that maybe you're saying they finish just behind Montreal.

In that scenario that'd mean about 43 wins, 19 less than they had.

Or more simply, you're saying those two defensemen were the only difference between TB getting 33 more standings points than the Canadiens.

 

[ColdSteel2]

You said they're a non-playoff team without Hedman and Stralman.

The only teams with more than 40 wins made the playoffs but Montreal. But I'll give you the point that maybe you're saying they finish just behind Montreal.

In that scenario that'd mean about 43 wins, 19 less than they had.

Or more simply, you're saying those two defensemen were the only difference between TB getting 33 more standings points than the Canadiens.

Yeah, I’ll stand by that, at least 33 more points due to Hedman and Stralman. It’s just as easy to picture the Hawks without Keith and Hjalmarsson in 10, 13, 15. Do they make it out of the first round in any of those years without those guys?

 

[AmericanDream]

please make stupid moves...please make stupid moves...please make stupid moves - you need more grit, trade off some of dat worthless skill!!

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Yeah, I’ll stand by that, at least 33 more points due to Hedman and Stralman. It’s just as easy to picture the Hawks without Keith and Hjalmarsson in 10, 13, 15. Do they make it out of the first round in any of those years without those guys?

Well if a #1 D makes that much of a difference, even on a team as loaded as Tampa, then is there any question we should be taking Byram?

Also, are the Devils and Rangers totally stupid for passing on Byram?

 

[Hawkaholic]

TB is absolutely still a playoff team with those 2 Dmen, but they aren't the juggernaut they were and are probably closer to a WC1 as opposed to best team in the league.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Well if a #1 D makes that much of a difference, even on a team as loaded as Tampa, then is there any question we should be taking Byram?

Also, are the Devils and Rangers totally stupid for passing on Byram?

I’d definitely take him No. 1 as the Hawks if other teams weren’t offering a package that included a top defenseman for the pick. Like I said on lottery night, I am glad the Hawks got No. 3 as opposed to 1 or 2 for this exact reason. It forces them to do the right thing. Taking “BPA” every year is what Edmonton did.

It wouldn’t shock me if Byram is off the board when the Hawks pick. There is a big dropoff after the top 3 and no other defensemen at Byram’s level in this draft.

 

[ClydeLee]

It is critical they lost Hedman... Stralman they knew was hurting and did nothing to help themselves about.

I think there are things people love to praise gms about but the excuse you cant fault them for something always bothered me. Yzerman and still Briesbois seem too eager to get the good deal but ignore health and condition. Pretty much all but their young guys on D have been guys routinely hurt missing games or battling though injuries, in the playoffs too. A lot of talk of some people say you cant anticipate that but I think its dumb to not. And you can learn from it maybe Brisbois will.

In counter I praise Jim Nill this year for learning to not trust Hanzal, Methtot, or Johns were gonna return to play. He made some adds like getting back the D he traded when he thought he had more depth.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I’d definitely take him No. 1 as the Hawks if other teams weren’t offering a package that included a top defenseman for the pick. Like I said on lottery night, I am glad the Hawks got No. 3 as opposed to 1 or 2 for this exact reason. It forces them to do the right thing. Taking “BPA” every year is what Edmonton did.

It wouldn’t shock me if Byram is off the board when the Hawks pick. There is a big dropoff after the top 3 and no other defensemen at Byram’s level in this draft.

Taking BPA is also what the Hawks have done.

 

[Hawkaholic]

It is critical they lost Hedman... Stralman they knew was hurting and did nothing to help themselves about.

I think there are things people love to praise gms about but the excuse you cant fault them for something always bothered me. Yzerman and still Briesbois seem too eager to get the good deal but ignore health and condition. Pretty much all but their young guys on D have been guys routinely hurt missing games or battling though injuries, in the playoffs too. A lot of talk of some people say you cant anticipate that but I think its dumb to not. And you can learn from it maybe Brisbois will.

In counter I praise Jim Nill this year for learning to not trust Hanzal, Methtot, or Johns were gonna return to play. He made some adds like getting back the D he traded when he thought he had more depth.

Hedman had never missed a playoff game, and Stralman had been healthy for all but one of their playoff runs. McDonagh hasn't been hurt.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Taking BPA is also what the Hawks have done.

We don’t know who the BPA is right now. GMs get it wrong in every draft. I’m just saying if it’s close, which it appears to be, don’t neglect really good D-men just to load up on forward talent that might be perceived to be slightly better on draft day.

Brian Burke had Morgan Reilly No. 1 on his board in the Yakupov draft.