Speculation: OT: Do you think the Tampa Bay Lightning can or will be the next NHL dynasty? (Edit: hahaha, nope)

[BobbyJet]

All the grit talk regarding Tampa is just odd to me. Were the rosters all that much different with the teams of theirs that have been to the Cup Final and Conference Finals twice in their recent run? They had Columbus down 3-0 in Game 1 and on the ropes and blew the lead and never figured out how to score a goal again. Mentally fizzled. But this is largely the same bunch that has had long runs of late and were in the Final not long ago.

Making a major roster overhaul in the name of grit in reaction to these series would be a mistake, in my opinion. I think this was a team that was able to coast into the playoffs and mentally imploded after choking away what should have been a Game 1 win. This same group has been through battles and long runs the last three years in a row. You don't blow that up in a reaction to one playoff series, and I don't think physical toughness was the issue. Mental much more than physical, which is the exception and not the rule when looking at this group's recent history.

Maybe it's leadership on the ice that TB misses the most?

 

[x Tame Impala]

I don't think it's a matter of skill vs grit and roster construction, although Stamkos really needs to step it up if Tampa is going to win. I watched almost all of that series, they were cruisin' in game 1 being up 3-0 and by the looks of it the team was thinking the same thing everyone else was thinking...here we go, the Jackets don't have a chance. From that point on it looked like they were not mentally tough enough to win. Tampa had no regular season-->playoffs switch in their heads and it showed. It says nothing about style of play (grit & toughness vs skill) or roster construction, only that Tampa wasn't willing and/or able to play playoff hockey. I don't know how this possibly could NOT be blamed at least mostly on Cooper but his and the player's mentality is what cost them the series. Hedman and Stralman injuries were also devastating, which shouldn't be understated.

It'd be a big mistake for the Lightning to go out and trade a kill guy for some toughness. I think it'd be the Seguin trade all over again.

 

[ChiHawk21]

they didnt have 2 of their top defenseman. kuch gone for a game goaltending was shaky for the stretch and columbus is a good team. rough patch at the exact wrong time. go back to the well again next year. dont screw around. imo

 

[Blue Liner]

Maybe it's leadership on the ice that TB misses the most?

I don't think it's an unreasonable question. @Blackhawkswincup did present some decent points in his most recent post as well. I am looking at a team who's been right there in the ECF and Final the past three seasons, but he illustrates a team that was in the driver seat in some of those situations in those series and found ways to not win them.

I still don't think you just blow this thing up and make drastic changes, but you definitely had a disappearing act (literally in Kucherov's case in being suspended a game and Hedman being hurt) of your best players and you need your best players to be your best players to win playoff series.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Hedman or not, Erik-freaking-Cernak was their leading scorer. Stamkos put up almost 100 points this year, Kuch almost put up 130, Point had 41 goals and 90+ points. You can't win if your three best players disappear. Combined 5 points for those three all series.

 

[BobbyJet]

I also find it quite humourous that so few give credit to Torts. A certain crowd loves to criticize him though.
Like Iron Mike in his day, Torts does not fart around in his coaching style and demands the best from his players - to go beyond their comfort zone....and that's I saw from CBJ in this series. Can they continue to play with that tenacity?

 

[piteus]

I also find it quite humourous that so few give credit to Torts. A certain crowd loves to criticize him though.
Like Iron Mike in his day, Torts does not fart around in his coaching style and demands the best from his players - to go beyond their comfort zone.

Torts' style works. It's more a question of WHEN players finally tune him out.

 

[piteus]

Maybe it's leadership on the ice that TB misses the most?

TB appears to have taken the mantle from the Caps. They lack grit on the blue line. It wasn't until the Caps fixed the back end that they started winning close games in the playoffs. The Penguins had the same issues for a while too.

We don't give Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson enough credit for our run. Once they started breaking down, the Hawks stumbled in post season. That's why I like the idea of drafting Byram.

Finally, any chance Tampa Bay have interest in Seabrook? Heck, I'll even listen to offers for Keith. Tampa is a nice place to raise a family for both Seabrook and Keith.

 

[BobbyJet]

Torts' style works. It's more a question of WHEN players finally tune him out.

Yep, like every coach in the league. Torts shelf life is probably shorter than most.

 

[JaegerDice]

Actually its the same bunch that has had several notable playoff no shows when it mattered most

Took 2-1 series lead vs Hawks and then had core no show vs Hawks in games 4-6
Had 3-2 series lead in ECF vs Pens and the core no showed for games 6 and 7
Had 3-2 series lead in ECF vs Caps and the core no showed for games 6 and 7
And now this years playoff debacle

Your right its not physical its mental and this core/coaching staff in TB has shown time and again that when it matters most the players are MIA and the coach is clueless

That core needs a major shakeup since they are not going to fire Cooper

Their core didn't no-show in 2015. Neither did the Blackhawks core. Both teams top lines essentially neutralized each other and it was the Teuvo and Kruger lines that won the series for the Blackhawks by out-playing Tampa's depth.

In 2016, they went up against one of the best teams of the cap era, they only went up because Vasi played out of his mind. The better team won that series. They didn't no-show, they just got outplayed by a better team. That happens.

In 2018 against the Caps, ok, you can argue they choked against a weaker opponent. In fairness, pretty much every team Washington played that season could claim the same thing (except Vegas).

In all 3 cases, they lost to the eventual Champions.

If losing to better or hot teams counts as a 'no-show' the Blackhawks should have exploded the core of the Blackhawks after 2011 and 2012.

This latest series is different. They got outplayed by a clearly worse team, albeit without a healthy Hedman (and Stralman for a game or two). They'll have to figure out why. They'd be idiotic to make major changes to the core though.

They'll have to make some changes, just for cap reasons. Resign point, keep all the other core guys, let the UFAs walk and move Calahan, then fill in the holes with youth or cheap FA players that you think can help. Working around the edges is really all that needs to be done, you don't blow up the young core of a team that won 62 games and made it to the ECF in 3 of the last 5 years on account of one bad week.

 

[piteus]

Yep, like every coach in the league. Torts shelf life is probably shorter than most.

He reminds me of Mike Keenan.

 

[pvr]

Yep, like every coach in the league. Torts shelf life is probably shorter than most.

A modern day Keenan.

Edit...Pieus beat me to the comp.

 

[BK]

A modern day Keenan.

Edit...Pieus beat me to the comp.

Haha he beat by 2 days...

 

[pvr]

Haha he beat by 2 days...

Yeah... I didn’t read all the way down...just replied.

 

[BK]

Yeah... I didn’t read all the way down...just replied.

I know I am just busting balls.