Speculation: OT: Do you think the Tampa Bay Lightning can or will be the next NHL dynasty? (Edit: hahaha, nope)

[Toews2Bickell]

If you wish to measure grit by regular season stats that are often meaningless, go for it but we are plainly not seeing a tough, gritty team in TB. We are in CBJ however and the results speak for themselves.

So lets throw out the 82 game sample completely?

 

[BobbyJet]

So lets throw out the 82 game sample completely?

A large part of it has to do with the exhausting schedule. Players learn to pace themselves; they simply can't play all out every second night for 7 months straight. The NHL product on the ice during the RS is second rate as a result.... and deceiving. Bickell tried to explain this to reporters when asked and he was instantly labelled as a slacker around here but it is the truth.

 

[Krivo25]

You can close this thread.

 

[BobbyJet]

/\ Unless of course TB comes back. It will be interesting to see if Cooper can adjust to at least win a game or 2. Torts is kicking his ass right now but there is no question that TB is a talented squad.

 

[coolhand]

It is possible but Hedman being hurt really hurts their chances. They have just look disinterested for a lot of the series and their best players are no where to be found (Stamkos).

That seems to be his MO, plays good during the season and disappears when it really counts. As I recall, he did nothing in the SCF against the Hawks.

 

[JaegerDice]

I still have yet to hear what Cooper should be doing differently.

He's getting his top line out against the other team's bottom 6 with good frequency, lots of ozone starts, putting his best D against the other team's top lines, etc.

Is he magically supposed to make them be harder on their sticks and win more one-on-one battles, or lose pucks? Tactically, the Lightning are playing the way they're built to play, their execution just isn't there. Credit to CBJ for that.

If Tampa is dumb enough to fire the coach that took a team to 62 wins, then the Blackhawks should be waiting outside the building in a limo with a briefcase full of cash.

 

[BobbyJet]

I still have yet to hear what Cooper should be doing differently.

He's getting his top line out against the other team's bottom 6 with good frequency, lots of ozone starts, putting his best D against the other team's top lines, etc.

Is he magically supposed to make them be harder on their sticks and win more one-on-one battles, or lose pucks? Tactically, the Lightning are playing the way they're built to play, their execution just isn't there. Credit to CBJ for that.

If Tampa is dumb enough to fire the coach that took a team to 62 wins, then the Blackhawks should be waiting outside the building in a limo with a briefcase full of cash.

Yeah, CBJ is not getting the credit they deserve.

 

[TheSting]

Look at all the Cooper apologists! Hilarious to say the least. Had the Hawks won 60+ regular season games and on the verge of being swept in the 1st round the same Cooper apologists would be calling for Q's head!

Hahhaha

 

[BobbyJet]

If anyone had any doubts that Ovi is tough and can protect himself, those doubts are put to bed.
Same with Kane, Evander.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Rask is fine. He’s embellishing

 

[BobbyJet]

Rask gets nailed.

 

[ClydeLee]

I still have yet to hear what Cooper should be doing differently.

He's getting his top line out against the other team's bottom 6 with good frequency, lots of ozone starts, putting his best D against the other team's top lines, etc.

Is he magically supposed to make them be harder on their sticks and win more one-on-one battles, or lose pucks? Tactically, the Lightning are playing the way they're built to play, their execution just isn't there. Credit to CBJ for that.

If Tampa is dumb enough to fire the coach that took a team to 62 wins, then the Blackhawks should be waiting outside the building in a limo with a briefcase full of cash.

Huhbive seen a lit of complaints about Tampa having to play dump and chase and making poor adjustments to try enter or maintain zone play that way when it's not their game, just like Washington did to them. That's maybe an adjustment he shouldn't be making or stopping but ones he could make.

Well, He's getting the matchups he wants, well they're not working so maybe he should change those matchups. Change up his lineup too up front or maybe move the star who routinely under him fails to produce in the playoffs to wing.

 

[JaegerDice]

Huhbive seen a lit of complaints about Tampa having to play dump and chase and making poor adjustments to try enter or maintain zone play that way when it's not their game, just like Washington did to them. That's maybe an adjustment he shouldn't be making or stopping but ones he could make.

Well, He's getting the matchups he wants, well they're not working so maybe he should change those matchups. Change up his lineup too up front or maybe move the star who routinely under him fails to produce in the playoffs to wing.

Honestly I read the Tampa boards, and half of them seem to want the team to start dumping and chasing to enter the zone, the other half is saying they're doing it too much.

The underlying issue seems to be that they can't enter the zone with speed, which I agree with. But it's insane to suggest that a system these players won 62 games with, many against significantly better teams, can't work now.

I think this is on the players. They're not hard on their sticks, they're not winning 50/50 battles, they're not making crisp passes, they just look out of sorts. Whether you're dumping and chasing or carrying the puck in, you're going to have to win a one-on-one battle.

The coach can't go out there and do it for them, all he can do is put them in the best position to win by icing the best lineup and putting his key players in the most advantageous or impactful positions.

As far as Stamkos, yes, there is a clear pattern emerging. The weird this is, to the eye-test at least, he's not one of the guys I would peg as low effort or sulking at the moment. Same deal in 2015 finals. He wasn't scoring, but it wasn't for lack of effort or chances. He was digging deep, it just wasn't happening for him. Seems to happen a lot though. Too much to pin on bad luck.

 

[Hawkaholic]

If you wish to measure grit by regular season stats that are often meaningless, go for it but we are plainly not seeing a tough, gritty team in TB. We are in CBJ however and the results speak for themselves.

I'm not measuring anything. Just posted an interesting stat. My opinion is that CLB has been playing high intensity games for a couple of weeks, and TB has been cruising. Couple that with a couple bad breaks for TB and that's why they are down. Not because they aren't tough enough.

 

[BobbyJet]

I'm not measuring anything. Just posted an interesting stat. My opinion is that CLB has been playing high intensity games for a couple of weeks, and TB has been cruising. Couple that with a couple bad breaks for TB and that's why they are down. Not because they aren't tough enough.

Let's replace tough with character or passion. Whatever you want to call it, that's what's missing from TB's game and until they get it a SC is not in the cards.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

The underlying issue seems to be that they can't enter the zone with speed, which I agree with. But it's insane to suggest that a system these players won 62 games with, many against significantly better teams, can't work now.

When one is in a 7 game series against a known opponent they can be game planned against. Some random Wednesday in January, not so much.

Take away what they do best, speed entries and skill, and it's over.

Tougher to stop a style like most winners are using. Play below the goal line and create chances through hard work and effort.

 

[Malagahawks]

You can close this thread.

 

[pvr]

Let's replace tough with character or passion. Whatever you want to call it, that's what's missing from TB's game and until they get it a SC is not in the cards.

It’s interesting to me that us old hockey folks here have similar opinions of what hockey is at its core. Used to be the regular season was closer to playoff hockey-say 80%+. Now it’s 60%...soft, with space and time.

Come playoffs space and time is lessened, physicality is ramped up. Battles along the boards and in front of the net/slot every play, every loose puck. A player has to be willing to take the punishment to make the play. Tampa players not sacrificing self for the team.

 

[theaub]

Still think a decent part of it is the special teams, which as always are completely unsustainable in the playoffs due to the sample size. Tampa was +43 on special teams during the regular season, they're -4 so far in this series (fwiw, Columbus was +6).

 

[RememberTheRoar]

It’s interesting to me that us old hockey folks here have similar opinions of what hockey is at its core. Used to be the regular season was closer to playoff hockey-say 80%+. Now it’s 60%...soft, with space and time.

Come playoffs space and time is lessened, physicality is ramped up. Battles along the boards and in front of the net/slot every play, every loose puck. A player has to be willing to take the punishment to make the play. Tampa players not sacrificing self for the team.

How have guys like Kane and Kessel still thrived in that environment when they really don’t play physical games at all? (Not to be confused with me saying they’re soft, but they’re not Ovechkin or Toews level)

 

[ChiHawk21]

i think its being over thought a bit...columbus has had to elevate their compete level for the last few weeks. tampa came in cocky after taking that 3-0 lead. Hedman, tampas most important player,is hurt. kucherov has missed a game from suspension. and columbus is just good now, the roster is deep and talented. Also its a 3 game sample size this stuff will always happen in hockey.

 

[theaub]

How have guys like Kane and Kessel still thrived in that environment when they really don’t play physical games at all? (Not to be confused with me saying they’re soft, but they’re not Ovechkin or Toews level)

I think there's a difference between being not being physical and not going into physical areas. Kane rarely shies away from going into the corner, but he's smart and agile enough to avoid getting hit. There's some guys who just want no part of contact which amplifies itself in the playoffs (Hawk-era Teuvo is a good example of this IMO). Admittedly I haven't watched enough of this TBL series to see if that's the issue.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I think there's a difference between being not being physical and not going into physical areas. Kane rarely shies away from going into the corner, but he's smart and agile enough to avoid getting hit. There's some guys who just want no part of contact which amplifies itself in the playoffs (Hawk-era Teuvo is a good example of this IMO). Admittedly I haven't watched enough of this TBL series to see if that's the issue.

That makes sense. It’s not necessarily about being physical in the playoffs, it’s all about going into the hard areas where things likely could get physical.

Most guys need to use their bodies to get there, but Kane is one of those rare and special players who is able to get into those same areas with finesse.

But above all, playoff hockey is about getting into the corners/behind the net/in front of the net.

Do others agree with that assessment?

 

[Hawkaholic]

It’s interesting to me that us old hockey folks here have similar opinions of what hockey is at its core. Used to be the regular season was closer to playoff hockey-say 80%+. Now it’s 60%...soft, with space and time.

Come playoffs space and time is lessened, physicality is ramped up. Battles along the boards and in front of the net/slot every play, every loose puck. A player has to be willing to take the punishment to make the play. Tampa players not sacrificing self for the team.

Playoff hockey now isn't what playoff hockey used to be either. Yes, it's ramped up from the regular season, but not by some crazy amount. Small, skilled players are still thriving in the playoffs, like they did in the regular season. I agree Tampa doesn't have the passion, or the character right now, probably because they have been coasting for so long.

 

[BobbyJet]

i think its being over thought a bit...columbus has had to elevate their compete level for the last few weeks. tampa came in cocky after taking that 3-0 lead. Hedman, tampas most important player,is hurt. kucherov has missed a game from suspension. and columbus is just good now, the roster is deep and talented. Also its a 3 game sample size this stuff will always happen in hockey.

All true, but it is inexcusable for a team that set records during the RS, to let it happen in the first round of the playoffs.

One of TB's biggest problems is they can't ride their PP in the playoffs like they did in the RS.

Kudos to Torts though for having his team ready to go and making adjustments on the fly.