Orr says Crosby is a top-5 player of all time, McDavid has the potential to be the best ever

[Dust]

Yup just look at Lemieux during the mid 90 to late 90's. He was a tier above perhaps one of the deepest crops of talent the NHL has ever seen:

Lemieux 1.94 ppg
Jager 1.55
Lindros 1.33
Karyia 1.29
Selanne 1.29
Forsberg 1.27
Sakic 1.26
Gretzky (Aging but still top 10 in ppg in that half decade) 1.12
Bure 1.09
Modano 1.06
Francis 1.05
Yzerman etc

I think Lemieux is still by far the best player of the 90's, but it is important to note that goalscoring in 97-98 and 98-99 dropped significantly from earlier in the 90's. His ppg would have likely dropped a bit closer to Jagr's had he played those final 2 seasons where teams average 2.6 gpg. He averaged 1.6ppg in 96-97 when scoring was at 2.92gpg (it dropped to 2.64 the following season).

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I think Lemieux is still by far the best player of the 90's, but it is important to note that goalscoring in 97-98 and 98-99 dropped significantly from earlier in the 90's. His ppg would have likely dropped a bit closer to Jagr's had he played those final 2 seasons where teams average 2.6 gpg. He averaged 1.6ppg in 96-97 when scoring was at 2.92gpg (it dropped to 2.64 the following season).

His ppg from 97-98 to 99-00 likely would have been somewhere between 1.61 (96-97) and 1.77 (00-01).

Crazy to think but 96-97 was a disappointing season for Lemieux, he said it himself, and it was part of why he retired. He said he felt he couldn't play at the same level he used to, and it was obvious he had lost a step. Which is incredible considering he still won the art ross easily with 122 points in 76 games. Just shows that a past his prime Lemieux was about on par with a peak Jagr.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

His ppg from 97-98 to 99-00 likely would have been somewhere between 1.61 (96-97) and 1.77 (00-01).

Crazy to think but 96-97 was a disappointing season for Lemieux, he said it himself, and it was part of why he retired. He said he felt he couldn't play at the same level he used to, and it was obvious he had lost a step. Which is incredible considering he still won the art ross easily with 122 points in 76 games. Just shows that a past his prime Lemieux was about on par with a peak Jagr.

Past his prime Lemieux was still a shade better than peak jagr. Which is incredible to think about

 

[duul]

I mean, from a pure skill perspective...I think it's clear that McDavid is in the tier with Gretzky and Lemieux (I didn't personally see Orr play).

Nobody is going to touch Gretzky's records, and he should definitely be considered the best player ever, but McDavid skill wise is very clearly at the level of those two greats. It's too hard to compare point % in relation to peers when the game has changed so drastically. Strategy has been optimised defensively, rule changes, not to mention the skill floor of the NHL is drastically higher than it used to be. The bottom 6 players are incredibly good defensively now, unlike the past.

 

[Son Goku]

I mean, from a pure skill perspective...I think it's clear that McDavid is in the tier with Gretzky and Lemieux (I didn't personally see Orr play).

Nobody is going to touch Gretzky's records, and he should definitely be considered the best player ever, but McDavid skill wise is very clearly at the level of those two greats. It's too hard to compare point % in relation to peers when the game has changed so drastically. Strategy has been optimised defensively, rule changes, not to mention the skill floor of the NHL is drastically higher than it used to be. The bottom 6 players are incredibly good defensively now, unlike the past.

Yeah no, not even CLOSE.

 

[surixon]

I mean, from a pure skill perspective...I think it's clear that McDavid is in the tier with Gretzky and Lemieux (I didn't personally see Orr play).

Nobody is going to touch Gretzky's records, and he should definitely be considered the best player ever, but McDavid skill wise is very clearly at the level of those two greats. It's too hard to compare point % in relation to peers when the game has changed so drastically. Strategy has been optimised defensively, rule changes, not to mention the skill floor of the NHL is drastically higher than it used to be. The bottom 6 players are incredibly good defensively now, unlike the past.

Imo he doesn't see the ice or read the game as well as either which ultimately will keep him from coming close to them. I often times think people put way more emphasis on the flashy skills then maybe the more softer skills in hockey.

McDavid has more dynamic skating andquickwer hands then Crosby but he he is only keeping pace with him to start his career. In the end hockey sense accounts for a lot in this sport and imo while McDavid clearly has high hockey IQ it doesnt match that of the all time greats or even Crosby imo.

 

[Cassano]

How can McDavid be the best of all time when he isn’t even the best on his own team atm?

Amazing player but his name has held more value than the results.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

How can McDavid be the best of all time when he isn’t even the best on his own team atm?

Amazing player but his name has held more value than the results.

There were times Crosby wasn't the best player on his team, as well.

 

[Cassano]

There were times Crosby wasn't the best player on his team, as well.

This was never the case with Gretzky. He’s the GOAT, always the best player on his teams and on the ice.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

This was never the case with Gretzky. He’s the GOAT, always the best player on his teams and on the ice.

Oh, my b. The thread was about Crosby being top 5, but yes, Gretzky is the GOAT.

 

[Theokritos]

No you have it wrong it was his neighbors cousins best friends sister.

Actually it was the neighbor and his cousin and the cousin's best friend and the latter's sister.

 

[Meloun]

Past his prime Lemieux was still a shade better than peak jagr. Which is incredible to think about

Past prime Jagr, 34 years old, was significantly better than Crosby ever was. Which is incredible, especially when Crosby is considered to be top 5 player of all time.

 

[Fixxer]

Past prime Jagr, 34 years old, was significantly better than Crosby ever was. Which is incredible, especially when Crosby is considered to be top 5 player of all time.

yeah, but his time in Washington was much worst then what Crosby ever produced.

 

[McShogun99]

This was never the case with Gretzky. He’s the GOAT, always the best player on his teams and on the ice.

He pretty much played this season on 1 leg and still had a simialr PPG to Draisaitl. Other teams were still putting their checking line against Mcdavid night after night.

 

[txpd]

Nobody is going to touch Gretzky's records.

As one of them is seriously threatened now(I qualify as that as touching the record) I am not sure just now is the right time to say that.

 

[txpd]

yeah, but his time in Washington was much worst then what Crosby ever produced.

Jagr proved his lack of character then. Imagine where his numbers would be if he gave a shit during that period. All because he wasn't recognized on the street.

 

[bobholly39]

His ppg from 97-98 to 99-00 likely would have been somewhere between 1.61 (96-97) and 1.77 (00-01).

Crazy to think but 96-97 was a disappointing season for Lemieux, he said it himself, and it was part of why he retired. He said he felt he couldn't play at the same level he used to, and it was obvious he had lost a step. Which is incredible considering he still won the art ross easily with 122 points in 76 games. Just shows that a past his prime Lemieux was about on par with a peak Jagr.

96-97 was also an off year for him. Off year doesnt mean decline. He could just have easily rebounded the next year and scored 160+

 

[bobholly39]

As one of them is seriously threatened now(I qualify as that as touching the record) I am not sure just now is the right time to say that.

The goal record was never that impressive to begin with. Not video game stats record like many of his others

Gretzkys goal scoring rate dropped off a lot in second half of career. His assists and points did not. Gretzky was pacing for ~1200 goals at one point. That would have been as untouchable as his other records.

The goal scoring is much more reachable. Lemieux would have blown past 900, and even 1000 goals with enough games played.

If Ovi passes 895 thats fantastic - but for some player to one day pass Gretzkys career points or assists it would be much more difficult

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

This was never the case with Gretzky. He’s the GOAT, always the best player on his teams and on the ice.

Nope he’s lost conn smythe trophies to teammates. So this is false

 

[RorschachWJK]

The legends don't want to appear egoistic/haughty and to this end they praise a lot of the younger players to no end. I agree with less than maybe 5% of Gretzky's claims and statements on various younger players. Same here. I don't think Crosby is or ever will be a top 5 player. Top 5 forward? Nah. Top 5 center? Probably, at least this one is getting closer.

McDavid? Time will tell.

 

[txpd]

The goal record was never that impressive to begin with

His records will never be touched. His all time goals record is one of his records. And are you serious? His goals record was never that impressive? OMG. What are you smoking?

 

[bobholly39]

His records will never be touched. His all time goals record is one of his records. And are you serious? His goals record was never that impressive? OMG. What are you smoking?

You're a fun poster....


Did you miss the rest of my post where i explain exactly what i meant?

 

[txpd]

You're a fun poster....


Did you miss the rest of my post where i explain exactly what i meant?

I am a fun poster. You said the record wasn't that impressive. You said that. Yes?

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Ugh. Well of course Crosby’s going down as one of the best ever, but top 5? I dunno. Where’s Jagr, Hasek, Ovie etc on Orrs and others lists? They’re usually reserved for Canadians, and it’s kinda boring reading the same lists over and over again. Don’t get me wrong though, Swedish “experts” and other nationalities tends to do the same, but I would be nice seeing some fresh lists once in a while, that aren’t biased

 

[Minar]

Nope he’s lost conn smythe trophies to teammates. So this is false

He led the whole league in pts all those times and most people agree that he was as deserving of the Conn Smyth as the winner was.