Orpik's Inevitable Re-sign (Now with 100% Less Nathan Horton)

JTG

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He's an effective enforcer who can play competent bottom pair minutes. I don't expect him to be making less than a mil per, at the very least, and I don't think that would be a great investment for us.

I agree with this. Engo won't be in Pittsburgh next year unless he loves it here so much that he'll take half of the salary he could get otherwise. Some team will give him 1.0-1.2 million per season for probably 3 years, along with a spot on a nightly basis.

Like I said, if we can get a 3rd rounder for him, I'd take it. 4th rounder, I'd probably consider keeping him.
 

ColePens

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If someone overpays, sure. But I'm 10000% okay keeping the guy. Good person to have on the squad. Does a little bit of everything.

If this was MT's team, he'd be dressed at a 12th forward for enforcer reasons. :laugh:
 

KIRK

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My biggest reason for not moving Orpik this year is that I don't want to worry about Martin having to find chemistry with somebody else this season. None of the other options seem like a particularly good fit right now.

I'd be content this season to see Nisky moved and Engo and Orpik play out the year, with Maatta sent back, Despres beside Bortuzzo, and Dumoulin/Harrington called up when injuries strike.

How long have we been beating the Despres drum? :laugh:

Just to reiterate, I don't want Shero to have an excuse to resign Orpik, and keeping Nisky, returning Maatta, and calling it a day does just that, because nobody will be 'experienced' enough to step into a top four role. Pretty sure you see a move nobody approach playing out similarly.

As for your fear of moving Orpik now (i.e., before Christmas, because I think we'd all agree it's got to happen by then or not at all) and the potential that nobody meshes with Martin, I do get that. Definitely a good risk, and I'll just ask two considerations for your question:

1. How do YOU think Despres would look with Martin?

2. What do YOU think the Pens could get for Orpik?

The reasons for the two questions, of course, is to ask if you think the Pens would be better off FOR THE PLAYOFFS with Orpik and say D'Agostini OR Despres and what the Pens could get for Orpik.

And, to reiterate, it would HAVE to be a good hockey trade for Orpik, someone who can contribute in the top nine or a top offensive prospect, and preferably someone who brings a reasonable combination of skill, size, and edge to the table.
 

KIRK

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that is one of the things I will never get over. And no one called them on that, instead likes of pgh media praising this move....
same thing with Glass playing 48 regular season games and getting benched, or not playing JJ, getting upset over and over again:rant:

however, Despres must play, don't understand lack of love here. Let him get 80 games under his belt. plenty veterans in Martin, Letang, Scuds and Orpik or Nisky (send one or both) and fill bottom pair with youngsters...let them play the entire season...no brainer

I understand it, in the sense that I get the #bylslogic at play here:

If there's one thing Dan Bylsma expects from young players, it is to play a simple game. Go north-south, play an excellent positional game, don't make mistakes, and, in the rare event that you do, then don't repeat it/learn from it.

For as gifted as he is offensively, Simon Despres is the type of guy who just makes the same mistakes defensively. Bennett has stayed, not because of his offensive gifts, but because he plays a tougher game than people appreciate and is fundamentally sound in his positioning. Maatta makes a lot fewer mistakes defensively than Despres and has shown, in this regard, a greater propensity to learn from the mistakes.

Now, personally, I think this is the wrong way to handle young players, because it assumes that they're all the same, that they all learn similarly, that it somehow teaches every one of them the same not to make mistakes if they're cut off at the knees when they make one too many, and that the approach itself does not Pejorative Slur the development of a young player or, by extension, the team over the long run.

What makes it doubly bad is the rank hypocrisy of it all. Beau Bennett shouldn't try to make a play offensively unless it works, although the stuff he tries pales in comparison to the bull**** Kunitz and Dupuis try to pull a couple of times a period. Despres shouldn't make a mistake defensively or gamble offensively, although it's precisely how Letang learned and, honestly, still plays.

Sugarcoat it however you like, but Dan Bylsma expects young players, whoever they are, to play hockey like he played hockey. When you don't, then you don't play, which is why the only young players who play over any time are the ones who bring a veterans maturity to the ice.

In some respects, it really is a tragic cycle. To be counted on one day to replace an older vet (say a guy like Orpik), a young player needs 14-15 minutes a game now, so that when the decision about Orpik comes you're not stuck between a choice of throwing someone completely green into the fire or resigning the vet to a deal that probably isn't even in the intermediate interests of your club.

BUT, make a mistake, and we'll get a Mark Eaton or keep a Matt Niskanen, even though neither is a long term answer, because they supposedly don't make mistakes, until the mistake of relying on them is exposed in the playoffs.

The real tragedy in this is that Kris Letang wouldn't have been on the big club in 2007-2008 if Dan Bylsma had been coach for precisely the same reasons Simon Despres isn't playing now, didn't play full time last year, and didn't play full time the year before that. Absent that, it would've been too 'risky' to trade Ryan Whitney in early 2009, which is precisely the type of situation we've got brewing now with Orpik.
 

Speaking Moistly

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The greatest irony being that Bylsma expects these young players to exhibit traits that he doesn't as a coach. Which may actually be another angle for his issue with them, no one likes having their problems reflected at them. Joking, Bylsma isn't that self aware.

If it was equal treatment or all of the players earned their spots then this would be a completely different story.
 

KIRK

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The greatest irony being that Bylsma expects these young players to exhibit traits that he doesn't as a coach. Which may actually be another angle for his issue with them, no one likes having their problems reflected at them. Joking, Bylsma isn't that self aware.

If it was equal treatment or all of the players earned their spots then this would be a completely different story.

No, the greatest irony is that Bylsma expects these young players to exhibit traits that his veterans don't.

Despres is always going to be a guy who gives you some ugly with all of the good like Letang.

Bennett will become an impact top six guy when he's allowed to grow, take risks, and learn what he can and can't do at the NHL level, even though he's knee capped if he tries to pull 5% of the **** Kunitz and Dupuis, with a lot less skill, try.

Don't even get me started on Jeffrey and Vitale and how their mistakes are dealt with relative to the mistakes of comparable vets.

And, then there's Orpik, a skating testament to Bylsma's hyprocrisy about on ice mistakes.
 

Speaking Moistly

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No, the greatest irony is that Bylsma expects these young players to exhibit traits that his veterans don't.

Despres is always going to be a guy who gives you some ugly with all of the good like Letang.

Bennett will become an impact top six guy when he's allowed to grow, take risks, and learn what he can and can't do at the NHL level, even though he's knee capped if he tries to pull 5% of the **** Kunitz and Dupuis, with a lot less skill, try.

Don't even get me started on Jeffrey and Vitale and how their mistakes are dealt with relative to the mistakes of comparable vets.

And, then there's Orpik, a skating testament to Bylsma's hyprocrisy about on ice mistakes.

Oh God, he's molded his favourites in his image. He really does seem to love the players that remind him of himself, Christ.

It's also a horrible lesson to be teaching these guys, "You can make as many mistakes as you like if you're a veteran, and one of my favourites. If you aren't one of them, then I want no pushing because," and then there's Orpik, "I make mistakes but someone cleans them up for me. I slack in the regular season so I can be well rested for the playoffs, my partner has to compensate for me. I'll call you out for not being good enough or being lazy." Dupuis gets to be, "I can be crap but Dan promised me that I'm welded to Sid's wing. Nothing will get me off it, you can't earn that spot and I can't lose it."

It just ruins any sense of effort and reward. Bylsma, if he's the coach, needs to have things like that taken away. It's just another point in the trade or don't re-sign Orpik column. Let him have Adams on the fourth line and take the rest of it away, or take the decision out of his hands.
 

KIRK

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Oh God, he's molded his favourites in his image. He really does seem to love the players that remind him of himself, Christ.

It's also a horrible lesson to be teaching these guys, "You can make as many mistakes as you like if you're a veteran, and one of my favourites. If you aren't one of them, then I want no pushing because," and then there's Orpik, "I make mistakes but someone cleans them up for me. I slack in the regular season so I can be well rested for the playoffs, my partner has to compensate for me. I'll call you out for not being good enough or being lazy." Dupuis gets to be, "I can be crap but Dan promised me that I'm welded to Sid's wing. Nothing will get me off it, you can't earn that spot and I can't lose it."

It just ruins any sense of effort and reward. Bylsma, if he's the coach, needs to have things like that taken away. It's just another point in the trade or don't re-sign Orpik column. Let him have Adams on the fourth line and take the rest of it away, or take the decision out of his hands.

Despite the slight melodrama, I'll admit that what you post is infinitely closer to the truth than it is to hyperbole. ;)
 

wgknestrick

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No, the greatest irony is that Bylsma expects these young players to exhibit traits that his veterans don't.

Despres is always going to be a guy who gives you some ugly with all of the good like Letang.

Bennett will become an impact top six guy when he's allowed to grow, take risks, and learn what he can and can't do at the NHL level, even though he's knee capped if he tries to pull 5% of the **** Kunitz and Dupuis, with a lot less skill, try.

Don't even get me started on Jeffrey and Vitale and how their mistakes are dealt with relative to the mistakes of comparable vets.

And, then there's Orpik, a skating testament to Bylsma's hyprocrisy about on ice mistakes.

I still fall back onto my "Pens don't know how to evaluate their players", or even know what "skills" contribute to winning hockey games.

Signing Michalek, and Glass are my two big examples of this, along with trading for Morrow/Murray. All of these guys had 1-2 year histories (statistically) of being bad, and they brought them in anyway. Then they wonder why they are bad when they are here.

Now we have Orpik in this "bad" category (being consistently out shot, and allowing a low SV% while on the ice) for while now, and they don't even seem to know it or adjust his ice-time accordingly.

I don't care how much experience he has, he is hurting the team with how he is currently playing. Pens are being outscored while he is on the ice. Who is making up for that? Who's carrying his dead weight on the scoreboard? Being tough doesn't help you win hockey games. Ask Asham.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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As for your fear of moving Orpik now (i.e., before Christmas, because I think we'd all agree it's got to happen by then or not at all) and the potential that nobody meshes with Martin, I do get that. Definitely a good risk, and I'll just ask two considerations for your question:

1. How do YOU think Despres would look with Martin?

2. What do YOU think the Pens could get for Orpik?

1. I think he would have his ups and downs as a talented kid who hasn't yet played a full NHL season on a bottom pairing. I'd prefer the relative stability of Orpik there for this year considering how well they performed last playoffs. Next year, after Simon has some more time under his belt, I'd be fine with moving on from Brooks before we start seeing diminishing returns.

2. We'd get a 1st or comparable prospect. I don't think that's worth it, though.

Sugarcoat it however you like, but Dan Bylsma expects young players, whoever they are, to play hockey like he played hockey. When you don't, then you don't play, which is why the only young players who play over any time are the ones who bring a veterans maturity to the ice.

Many more coaches have this mentality than some people here want to admit though, KIRK. It's why Tarasenko got benched last year. It's why Kadri gets raked over the coals. It's why Dougie Hamilton got benched in the playoffs. It's why Tatar and Nyquist can't get icetime in Detroit. It's why Toffoli's in the AHL. And it's why Yakupov's getting benched right now. And those are just examples off the top of my head. Why people think this only applies to Bylsma, I don't know.

Generally speaking, coaches defer to vets, want you to play within the system, and only make creative plays when they don't put the team at risk.
 
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wgknestrick

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1. I think he would have his ups and downs as a talented kid who hasn't yet played a full NHL season on a bottom pairing. I'd prefer the relative stability of Orpik there for this year considering how well they performed last playoffs. Next year, after Simon has some more time under his belt, I'd be fine with moving on from Brooks before we start seeing diminishing returns.

2. We'd get a 1st or comparable prospect. I don't think that's worth it, though.



Many more coaches have this mentality than some people here want to admit though, KIRK. It's why Tarasenko got benched last year. It's why Kadri gets raked over the coals. It's why Dougie Hamilton got benched in the playoffs. It's why Tatar and Nyquist can't get icetime in Detroit. It's why Toffoli's in the AHL. And it's why Yakupov's getting benched right now. And those are just examples off the top of my head. Why people think this only applies to Bylsma, I don't know.

Generally speaking, coaches defer to vets, want you to play within the system, and only make creative plays when they don't put the team at risk.


Don't tell COL, SJS, or MTL. If only they could get their young guys to produce.:sarcasm:
 

Jag68Sid87

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If someone overpays, sure. But I'm 10000% okay keeping the guy. Good person to have on the squad. Does a little bit of everything.

If this was MT's team, he'd be dressed at a 12th forward for enforcer reasons. :laugh:

No, if this was still MT's team, we'd have a real enforcer on the fourth line (perhaps PA native George Parros), perhaps a second one (or agitating SOB who could fight), AND Engelland around just in case.


Many more coaches have this mentality than some people here want to admit though, KIRK. It's why Tarasenko got benched last year. It's why Kadri gets raked over the coals. It's why Dougie Hamilton got benched in the playoffs. It's why Tatar and Nyquist can't get icetime in Detroit. It's why Toffoli's in the AHL. And it's why Yakupov's getting benched right now. And those are just examples off the top of my head. Why people think this only applies to Bylsma, I don't know.

Generally speaking, coaches defer to vets, want you to play within the system, and only make creative plays when they don't put the team at risk.

Let's analyze each example here:

- Tarasenko got benched last year largely because he struggled to find his game after his concussion. Also, Ken Hitchcock is notorious for not giving offensive young forwards their due. Schwartz had to fight that problem last year, as well, and this year's whipping boy in St. Louis is Magnus Paajarvi.

- Kadri clashes with the type of player Randy Carlyle likes, but he was still given the opportunity to shine through last season. He's seeing the fewest minutes among Leafs centers this year, but the difference between last year and this is they've replaced Grabovski (a similar player to Kadri) with Bolland, a Cup winner. So, they're giving Bolland the harder minutes now and it's working.

- Hamilton struggled in camp this year, and was apparently close to being sent down. With Matt Bartkowski out-playing him now, it seems inevitable that Hamilton will be sent down. However, it's not like Julien is preferring older vets to Hamilton. He plays Krug a ton, is trusting Bartkowski now and might use another AHLer in Kevan Miller if Hamilton is sent down. Apples to oranges with our situation here.

- Tatar and Nyquist are both caught in the numbers game with the Red Wings. It's true Babcock is similar to Bylsma here. It's also true that this mantra comes from above, because Holland is a firm believer in vets over kids. The Wings over-ripen their prospects at times, and I would suggest both Tatar and Nyquist are prime examples. Nyquist was actually ahead of Tatar last season, when he found a role on their third line with Andersson and Brunner. But since he could be sent down without waivers, they chose to do so. Tatar is wasting away as a healthy scratch because they KNOW he'd be scooped up if waived. Meanwhile, they're using Mikael Samuelsson and Jordin Tootoo in a platoon as the No. 4 RW. Makes no sense to me (or to most Wings fans, you should check out their board!), but this is classic example of what you're talking about, RRP.

- Toffoli is a little different situation. They didn't like him on left wing, so he had less of a chance to make the team once Matt Frattin was acquired. Sutter is not averse to using younger players, he's more of a hard-edged type though. He likes his grinders. Toffoli did spend quite a bit of time playing in the playoffs, though. In his case, I think it's only a matter of time. But Sutter doesn't favor vets blindly. Simon Gagne can attest to that.

- Lastly, Yakupov. He's in a different situation. He's a right-winger on a team that already has Eberle and Hemsky. None are any good at left wing. None are ideal third liners, which is also true for David Perron--who has to play third line there too. This team just doesn't have a good mix right now and MacTavish needs to make a trade. It's too early to suggest Eakins like veterans over kids. He does like AHLers he's familiar with, though. That much we know: case in point Will Acton, Luke Gazdic, Ryan Hamilton. None of them are particularly young or old, but all are inexperienced when it comes to NHL hockey.


I don't know if any of the coaches talked about above are as consistently pro-vet as Bylsma is, save for maybe Babcock. And that is logical, since this organization has gone out of its way to become more like Detroit ever since dethroning the Red Wings in '09. Hitchcock is another in the same boat, but GM Armstrong has done well to give Hitch enough kids to balance it out. This is what Shero has NOT done in my opinion. Of course, adding Brenden Morrow really screwed Paajarvi (who by all accounts had a strong training camp, and even Hitch praised him).

I still find it hard to argue that we need to get younger, faster, more aggressive and tougher on this team.
 

wgknestrick

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In terms of the development of young players, yes, I see San Jose as a model franchise.

I concur. The talent they have developed (more like intelligently drafted) from mid-high draft picks is impressive. You also see them constantly vacating their worst players (unfortunately some to us) to let a young guy in. They all buy into their "tons of shots" possession game plan of consistently out-shooting the other team. Do you guys wonder why they scooped TK up (I don't)?

They aren't afraid of giving guys opportunities and seeing how they do first before making a decision. Do you think the Pens go through this extent of systematic decision making with the roster? 1 bad decision and you are done.
 

Honour Over Glory

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I concur. The talent they have developed (more like intelligently drafted) from mid-high draft picks is impressive. You also see them constantly vacating their worst players (unfortunately some to us) to let a young guy in. They all buy into their "tons of shots" possession game plan of consistently out-shooting the other team. Do you guys wonder why they scooped TK up (I don't)?

They aren't afraid of giving guys opportunities and seeing how they do first before making a decision. Do you think the Pens go through this extent of systematic decision making with the roster? 1 bad decision and you are done.

This is one of my biggest gripes with the team, it's not even the Sharks that do this, there are more teams in the League that let their young players sink or swim rather than being overly safe and punishing them for the littlest of things that are learning moments. I can see the good and bad in doing that, but there is also just flat out being so safe that the prospects get impatient and leave or don't get used properly and are wasted and then moved or waived and claimed. It's bizarre as hell to see the team give bigger opportunities to waiver pick-ups and hasbeens that need a second shot. I mean really, so the shot you want to give someone is a guy that couldn't make it anywhere else anymore, but the ones you've invested time and money in, aren't worthy of that same shot? Tell me more, this logic astounds me, NHL club that gets paid to mismanage talent.

This team likes to somewhat model itself after the Wings, which is painfully obvious with how they bring along youth. Sure the wings are successful, but they also have a coach that can coach himself out of a paper bag, ours can't. But even Babs has his issues with rookies.
 
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Ragamuffin Gunner

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Nobody said there weren't examples of teams with productive young players. Do you see those teams as model franchises?

What do you consider as a "model franchises"?

Franchises use a great many things to be successful and measure their success. Things like:

Profit
Winning games
Drafting
Player development
Prospect development
Coaching
Trading
FA signings
Cap management
Ect.

Are "model franchises" the ones who have are the best in these attributes or are they the ones with the most wins? Or are the teams that make the most money "model franchises"?

A franchise can be very successful on the ice and be very poor in one or more of the attributes mentioned above, does that make then a "model franchises"? Or would a team that is the best in all by one of the above attributes but does not win many games be a "model franchise"? How about if a team loses many games but makes the most profit, is that a "model franchise"?

I think we should be looking at the teams with the best prospect development when discussing how well we develop prospects.

Edit: My main point is that a team may be considered a "model franchise" and have terrible prospect development but still be successful because of other attributes.
 
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Honour Over Glory

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What do you consider as a "model franchises"?

Franchises use a great many things to be successful and measure their success. Things like:

Profit
Winning games
Drafting
Player development
Prospect development
Coaching
Trading
FA signings
Cap management
Ect.

Are "model franchises" the ones who have are the best in these attributes or are they the ones with the most wins? Or are the teams that make the most money "model franchises"?

A franchise can be very successful on the ice and be very poor in one or more of the attributes mentioned above, does that make then a "model franchises"? Or would a team that is the best in all by one of the above attributes but does not win many games be a "model franchise"? How about if a team loses many games but makes the most profit, is that a "model franchise"?

I think we should be looking at the teams with the best prospect development when discussing how well we develop prospects.

And which teams do you think those are?

Here are number of players the teams that currently ice homegrown(developed in the AHL/undrafted)/drafted players have.

Chicago - 13
San Jose - 13
Los Angeles - 10
Boston - 7

I just picked 3 of the most recent cup winners and the Sharks since they were mentioned.

Penguins now...10. Most are of the old guard variety, as in - Orpik, Scuderi, Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury. Then you have Maatta, Vitale, Bennett, and Jeffrey.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

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And which teams do you think those are?

Here are number of players the teams that currently ice homegrown(developed in the AHL/undrafted)/drafted players have.

Chicago - 13
San Jose - 13
Los Angeles - 10
Boston - 7

I just picked 3 of the most recent cup winners and the Sharks since they were mentioned.

Penguins now...10. Most are of the old guard variety, as in - Orpik, Scuderi, Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury. Then you have Maatta, Vitale, Bennett, and Jeffrey.

IMO, looking at drafted players on the team isn't really a good indicator of how well teams develop their prospects, IMO. Looking at out list; Sid, Geno, MAF, Orpik, and BB were all top 20 picks so the fact that they're in the NHL isn't that big of an accomplishment. Also, it's no secret that they horribly mishandles MAF when he was young.

SJ has been mentioned a lot in these threads as a team that really lie's their young guys play.
BOS went into the POs last year knowing that they were gonna play a rookie, be it Hamilton or Krug.
CHI has gotten a great deal out of Saad and let him play big mins last year.
 

KIRK

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I concur. The talent they have developed (more like intelligently drafted) from mid-high draft picks is impressive. You also see them constantly vacating their worst players (unfortunately some to us) to let a young guy in. They all buy into their "tons of shots" possession game plan of consistently out-shooting the other team. Do you guys wonder why they scooped TK up (I don't)?

They aren't afraid of giving guys opportunities and seeing how they do first before making a decision. Do you think the Pens go through this extent of systematic decision making with the roster? 1 bad decision and you are done.

It's not just their meh vets that they move on from. They'd have let Despres learn and not signed Eaton. They'd move Nisky to make room for Maatta. They narrowly define what veteran players constitute the core, and anyone else can be had in a good hockey trade and if a young guy is a viable alternative.

This is one of my biggest gripes with the team, it's not even the Sharks that do this, there are more teams in the League that let their young players sink or swim rather than being overly safe and punishing them for the littlest of things that are learning moments. I can see the good and bad in doing that, but there is also just flat out being so safe that the prospects get impatient and leave or don't get used properly and are wasted and then moved or waived and claimed. It's bizarre as hell to see the team give bigger opportunities to waiver pick-ups and hasbeens that need a second shot. I mean really, so the shot you want to give someone is a guy that couldn't make it anywhere else anymore, but the ones you've invested time and money in, aren't worthy of that same shot? Tell me more, this logic astounds me, NHL club that gets paid to mismanage talent.

This team likes to somewhat model itself after the Wings, which is painfully obvious with how they bring along youth. Sure the wings are successful, but they also have a coach that can coach himself out of a paper bag, ours can't. But even Babs has his issues with rookies.

Chicago is another. I mentioned San Jose because RRP mentioned them above in passing. That said, you're right about the Wings reference. Look, for me, if you've got 18 million a year signed up in Sid and Geno, then SOMETHING has to give. Either it's Sid and/or Geno OR you better have a proactive model when it comes to working young players into roles and growing those roles. Otherwise, a team hits a rut, always highly competitive but not the force it once was. That's where Detroit is trending. Teams like Chicago and San Jose take the reload approach.
 

wgknestrick

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It is painfully obvious to most of us here that the Pens are not very intelligent with long term planning and get caught in their "catch 22", flawed logic with respect to veterans and young players. This horse is dead until the local media and general public starts hounding them, or they get some intelligent people in positions of power.
 

HandshakeLine

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It is painfully obvious to most of us here that the Pens are not very intelligent with long term planning and get caught in their "catch 22", flawed logic with respect to veterans and young players. This horse is dead until the local media and general public starts hounding them, or they get some intelligent people in positions of power.

I'd like to see your math on that. How did you come to this conclusion?

Also, conventional wisdom means nothing. People are barely smarter than golden retrievers on the whole.
 

AjaxTelamon

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Ok, can we just stop this foolishness when Letang comes back, and just trade Orpik already? Let's stop pretending that Niskanen is so awful, he's played pretty darn well this year. And Orpik has been a complete and utter mess. Niskanen has so far outplayed Orpik that it isn't even close. Orpik is averaging 22:54 TOI a game. He's our worst D man by far, and DB is putting him out there like he's a Norris guy. Rob Scuderi? 20:18. Matt Niskanen? 20:00. Brooks freaking Orpik is 2nd on the whole team in TOI, and gets 0 minutes on the PP. How can anyone justify that?

We need to ice this:

Scuderi Letang
Martin Niskanen
Bortuzzo Maatta/Depres

Engo/Depres/Dumo

And then if we have an injury, move up any of our young guys into the top 4.

Edmonton is desperate for some kind of change, give Orpik to them for anything, a sack of pucks, and we'll be a better team, especially considering the 2mil+ we just picked up in cap space (vs. trading Nisky).
 

KIRK

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109,700
51,216
Ok, can we just stop this foolishness when Letang comes back, and just trade Orpik already? Let's stop pretending that Niskanen is so awful, he's played pretty darn well this year. And Orpik has been a complete and utter mess. Niskanen has so far outplayed Orpik that it isn't even close. Orpik is averaging 22:54 TOI a game. He's our worst D man by far, and DB is putting him out there like he's a Norris guy. Rob Scuderi? 20:18. Matt Niskanen? 20:00. Brooks freaking Orpik is 2nd on the whole team in TOI, and gets 0 minutes on the PP. How can anyone justify that?

We need to ice this:

Scuderi Letang
Martin Niskanen
Bortuzzo Maatta/Depres

Engo/Depres/Dumo

And then if we have an injury, move up any of our young guys into the top 4.

Edmonton is desperate for some kind of change, give Orpik to them for anything, a sack of pucks, and we'll be a better team, especially considering the 2mil+ we just picked up in cap space (vs. trading Nisky).

I for one have zero problem moving Orpik, regardless of what happens with Nisky.

BUT, here's one consideration: Nisky looks great at RD with Scuds. How will he look at LD with Borts (if Maatta goes) or Martin (if Orpik were moved and he were slotted there)? I have some doubts there.
 

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