Orpik's Inevitable Re-sign (Now with 100% Less Nathan Horton)

[KIRK]

Then what's the point of trading Orpik and Niskanen to gain cap space? We have all the skilled wingers we need right now.



Something about the phrasing here is confusing me.

My point is the cap money allocated to Orpik and Niskanen is not preventing us from being able to afford skilled wingers for Sid and Geno. We have skilled wingers, we just choose not to use all of them with Sid, so it's not worth trading away two veterans and icing half a blueline with 87 career NHL games under the pretense that we'd use that extra cap space to better our scoring lines. We wouldn't.

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal

Would be as skilled a top 6 as anyone could reasonably hope for.



Meh, it's one game. Happens to the best of 'em.

I'd like to upgrade on Jokinen, but, yeah, I'll grant your point about best combos and what Bylsma does. I won't argue that I'm not torn, although one way or another I think two of three out of Orpik, Niskanen, and Despres need to be gone within the next 12 months.

As for Bennett being benched and your saying 'it's only one game', let me remind you, when it comes to Bylsma and young players, of the old proverb that the past is prologue.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Less imprudent than neutralizing your best player for the playoffs IF you use the 4 million saved to address that AND the coach has a clue (o'k, I know, I'm being a fanboy now).

Seriously, my theory on the Pens-- and you know this-- is that you stack lines for Sid and Geno AND then build from there.

If you asked me this-- is it better to have Sid and Geno both with two good wingers each and Despres/Maatta over Orpik/Nisky OR things exactly as they are now-- then I'm taking the former every day of the week and twice on Sunday, because I trust Sid and Geno-- if you set them up to succeed against ANYONE-- more than I trust Orpik and Nisky.

How about you move one and don't re-sign Duper?

With Des replacing the Dman, that's 5.21M or 6.6M to give to a 1st line winger.

 

[KIRK]

How about you move one and don't re-sign Duper?

With Des replacing the Dman, that's 5.21M or 6.6M to give to a 1st line winger.

Point is, you get options. Whatever the cap goes up gets eaten up by Letang's and Geno's raises (plus you've got others).

You COULD resign Orpik, just like you COULD have resigned Dupuis. That's an entirely different subject than SHOULD.

I will say again, on the subject of Orpik, that I anticipate that two of Orpik, Niskanen, and Despres will be gone at this time 12 months from now.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And when Harrington becomes ready and when Pouliot is ready in 2-3 years. Are you trading Scuds or Letang? Nope. Orpik? Can't, you just resigned him. So, you let Martin walk. Oh no, can't do that, nobody is experienced enough to replace him.

I'd prefer it if we just let Orpik walk. I just don't think it will happen.

I usually do a lot better when I stick to evaluating what I see on the ice instead of trying to predict what the organization will do, but I think the Pens will part with Nisky before next season, re-sign Orpik for something close to what he makes this year, then let Martin move on when his deal expires because he'll likely command a raise to about 7 mil per.

That leaves room to incorporate our young defensemen gradually.

I'd like to upgrade on Jokinen, but, yeah, I'll grant your point about best combos and what Bylsma does. I won't argue that I'm not torn, although one way or another I think two of three out of Orpik, Niskanen, and Despres need to be gone within the next 12 months.

Two of them could very well be, depending on the path the org takes with Maatta.

As for Bennett being benched and your saying 'it's only one game', let me remind you, when it comes to Bylsma and young players, of the old proverb that the past is prologue.

Let's both hope my faith in DB isn't misplaced on this one, haha.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

#1 Michalek sucked here

#2 Orpik was two years younger two years ago. No one is arguing Orpik was not at one point useful. But his game has fallen off dramatically.

Z and Martin both had a terrible year. They have both turned their games around, while Oprik had gotten worse each year since.

 

[KIRK]

I'd prefer it if we just let Orpik walk. I just don't think it will happen.

I usually do a lot better when I stick to evaluating what I see on the ice instead of trying to predict what the organization will do, but I think the Pens will part with Nisky before next season, re-sign Orpik for something close to what he makes this year, then let Martin move on when his deal expires because he'll likely command a raise to about 7 mil per.

That leaves room to incorporate our young defensemen gradually.



Two of them could very well be, depending on the path the org takes with Maatta.



Let's both hope my faith in DB isn't misplaced on this one, haha.

You know, we actually agree here on what is and what ought to be.

Thankfully, you still have your faith in DB. Without it, we'd have nothing left upon which we might disagree.

 

[Nietzsche Zone Play]

I will say again, on the subject of Orpik, that I anticipate that two of Orpik, Niskanen, and Despres will be gone at this time 12 months from now.

we caught it the first time you said it, exactly 10 minutes and two posts earlier.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I'd prefer it if we just let Orpik walk. I just don't think it will happen.

Terrible asset management. If you are dead set on him not coming back next year, you can deal him for a good prospect or 1st rounder at the deadline.

Other random thought not concerning your post:

Somehow I feel without the likes of TK on this team, Orpik is turning into the new whipping boy this season even if it's unjustified. Next will be Dupuis or it will be the I hate Dupuis/Orpik posts next.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

How about you move one and don't re-sign Duper?

With Des replacing the Dman, that's 5.21M or 6.6M to give to a 1st line winger.

Who are we going to trade to get that 1st line winger?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Following up on a post above...

If we were to trade Orpik, it got me thinking about something. He had a big offer from the Rangers when he was a FA last time and he was waiting to see what we were going to do about Hossa before he made his decision.

The Rangers are in all kinds of disarray right now. Their fans may say they have defense, etc but they are missing a guy like Orpik on their defense.

I wonder what they would think about Orpik for Kreider. I'm sure the fans would whine about us needing to give them the world but it might make sense as a hockey trade for both sides.

 

[mpp9]

Bennett is way ahead of Kreider in terms of his defensive game, and Beau has an uphill battle here himself. If we're moving Orpik, I'd like to see an established forward coming back.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Who are we going to trade to get that 1st line winger?

I've been told that PMDs can easily be traded for good young goal scorers.

Seriously, Seto could have been gotten this summer and would have been a good filler till next summer when the cap goes up. Also, as TR mentioned Horton got 5.3M.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Bennett is way ahead of Kreider in terms of his defensive game, and Beau has an uphill battle here himself. If we're moving Orpik, I'd like to see an established forward coming back.

I don't disagree but we have 3 out of 4 top 6 wingers locked up for the next 3+ years.

We could have Gordie Howe and Pavel Bure coming in and he'll continue to play Kunitz and Dupuis with Crosby.

Thinking about the upside of a 3rd line with Kreider/Bennett on it until Bylsma gets fired and then Bennett moves to the top 6

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Kreider - Sutter - Bennett
Glass - Adams - Vitale - Kobesew - Jeffrey - Dagestini to fight it out for the bottom 3 spots.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

If we're moving Orpik, I'd like to see an established forward coming back.

I don't think your thoughts are too far off of Bylsma's

 

[Ogrezilla]

I've been told that PMDs can easily be traded for good young goal scorers.

Seriously, Seto could have been gotten this summer and would have been a good filler till next summer when the cap goes up. Also, as TR mentioned Horton got 5.3M.

Horton has an awful deal considering the term and his injury history. And Seto may have been able to be gotten. But we didn't have a 2nd and they likely didn't want Niskanen. They needed to shed salary. So I don't know what we would have given them for him.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Horton has an awful deal considering the term and his injury history. And Seto may have been able to be gotten. But we didn't have a 2nd and they likely didn't want Niskanen. They needed to shed salary. So I don't know what we would have given them for him.

5.3M for a 28 y/o power forward isn't bad, especially with the cap going up. 7 years is a lot but by that time 5.3M should be pretty cheap.

As for Minny/Seto. They moved Seto's 3M salary and signed a recently bought out Ballard to a 1.5M contract. I have a feeling they would have done Nisky for Seto straight up.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

5.3M for a 28 y/o power forward isn't bad, especially with the cap going up. 7 years is a lot but by that time 5.3M should be pretty cheap.

As for Minny/Seto. They moved Seto's 3M salary and signed a recently bought out Ballard to a 1.5M contract. I have a feeling they would have done Nisky for Seto straight up.

His contract doesn't look bad on paper but there are a few factors at play.

He signed his deal in a year where the cap dropped almost $6m across the board. Teams that would be interested in Horton may not have had the cap room to spend on him. I think if he were a free agent with the cap as it was at $70m, he's looking at $6m+ a year from Columbus. They paid a whole hell of a lot to get Wisniewski there.

Besides his contract, and the fact that Horton always scores against the Pens like Morozov did against Brodeur, the major reason why I would've definitely passed on him is because he's had numerous concussion issues. I feel like Horton is one of those guys where the next hit he takes could end his career.

I agree on Seto. We missed the boat on that one. Nisky for Seto was win win for both teams.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Terrible asset management. If you are dead set on him not coming back next year, you can deal him for a good prospect or 1st rounder at the deadline.

Keeping a veteran top 4 defenseman for a playoff run is not terrible asset management.

 

[Shockmaster]

I wasn't against trading Orpik, but if it was going to be done it would have been done in the summer. It wasn't, so he'll likely be staying with the team for the rest of the year. I'm not upset about that, but I don't want to see him re-signed for salary cap and defensive depth reasons.

 

[Ogrezilla]

5.3M for a 28 y/o power forward isn't bad, especially with the cap going up. 7 years is a lot but by that time 5.3M should be pretty cheap.

As for Minny/Seto. They moved Seto's 3M salary and signed a recently bought out Ballard to a 1.5M contract. I have a feeling they would have done Nisky for Seto straight up.

We just disagree on what Horton is worth. He's too much of an injury risk to give that kind of money to.

As for Niskanen, why? They got a player who is just as good for less money and a free 2nd rounder on top of it.

 

[JTG]

Why are people so hung up on Nathan ****ing Horton? People act like there was an indication he'd sign here, or he even WANTED to sign here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why are people so hung up on Nathan ****ing Horton? People act like there was an indication he'd sign here, or he even WANTED to sign here.

Because if a signing or trade happened somewhere, or could've potentially happened based on rumour/speculation, it's Shero's fault for not getting it done.

We could've had Dustin Brown in 2012! Damn you Ray!

 

[Tender Rip]

Why are people so hung up on Nathan ****ing Horton? People act like there was an indication he'd sign here, or he even WANTED to sign here.

That is SUCH a red herring .

"No better free agent forward than Dupuis signed anywhere this off season".
- "Disagree, for instance there was Nathan Horton"
"He wanted a small market!"
- "You think Pittsburgh is not a place to bring up kids?"
"His contract was too big and too long"
- "Fair enough, I disagree, but that's arguable. He is still better than Dupuis and much more the kind of player we actually need."
"But Crosby doesn't want to play with ANYONE but Dupuis!"
- "I find that statement bizarre, and even if that's true that is Bylsma's problem and doesn't change that Horton is better than Dupuis."
"Why are people so hung up on Nathan Horton!?!"

 

[IcedCapp]

Why are people so hung up on Nathan ****ing Horton? People act like there was an indication he'd sign here, or he even WANTED to sign here.

"No one better was out there"

"Nathan Horton"

"WHY ARE YOU SO HUNG UP ON NATHAN HORTON"

That about sums up the last 2 pages.

Edit: oops, sorry, I should have looked down one post.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I signed Horton with the Dallas Stars in NHL 14. Then he got hurt for two months.