Olli Juolevi vs. Timothy Liljegren

Juolevi or Liljegren?


  • Total voters
    304

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,705
Toronto
I quoted Friedman. So answer the question. How or why would he mislead people with this? Are you saying he would lie to make Durzi sound preferable to Lilegren?

Do you have any sources or quotes to back up what he reported was inaccurate? No, I didn't think so.
He reported on a story, he never suggested the Kings were correct in doing so. He stated a fact. You’re suggesting they’ve made the right call when we don’t know that, and won’t for several years. That’s weak, you can do better than that.

I’m not challenging the accuracy, I’m challenging whether conclusions can be drawn based on unscientific opinion of 20 year old kids future.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,810
21,015
He reported on a story, he never suggested the Kings were correct in doing so. He stated a fact. You’re suggesting they’ve made the right call when we don’t know that, and won’t for several years. That’s weak, you can do better than that.

I’m not challenging the accuracy, I’m challenging whether conclusions can be drawn based on unscientific opinion of 20 year old kids future.

I answered a reply asking me for a quote or source that the Kings preferred Durzi over Lilegren. What are you talking about. I produced it. Seems to me you are the one upset that Friedman reported this was the case.

I never said they’re bad or good, I pointed to a recent example of when their pro scouting department probably wants one back. That’s the same pro scouting department that would have evaluated Timothy Liljegren.

Even the absolute best scouts are wrong more than they’re right.
Yes you only inferred it when it suited your narrative, but when shown this is not the case, you simply are not the #4 farm system as per Proman with bad scouting, you backtracked off this.
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,705
Toronto
BTW, you panned the Kings scouts. Care to comment how the Kings scouts are so bad when they were rated the #4 farm system in the NHL by Pronman in his latest rankings? Sound like Kings scouts are good evaluators of talent right?
I never said they’re bad or good, I pointed to a recent example of when their pro scouting department probably wants one back. That’s the same pro scouting department that would have evaluated Timothy Liljegren.

Even the absolute best scouts are wrong more than they’re right.
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,705
Toronto
I answered a reply asking me for a quote or source that the Kings preferred Durzi over Lilegren. What are you talking about. I produced it. Seems to me you are the one upset that Friedman reported this was the case.
So you’re going to be dishonest and play dumb? Ok.

Why am I not surprised?
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,810
21,015
So you’re going to be dishonest and play dumb? Ok.

Why am I not surprised?
We are done here. If quoting Friedman makes one dishonest. Then there are many dishonest posters here. I suggest you email him and ask him to stop reporting lies then.

Friedman:
I was initially surprised that Timothy Liljegren wasn’t included. But, after looking deeper, teams are down on him right now. He’s not yet 20 — way too soon to give up — but several scouts were not surprised the Kings chose OHL Guelph’s Sean Durzi over Liljegren.
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,705
Toronto
We are done here. If quoting Friedman makes one dishonest. Then there are many dishonest posters here. I suggest you email him and ask him to stop reporting lies then.

Friedman:
It’s dishonest to suggest you can read anything into a singular scouting decision like that when both players are still so young and undeveloped. Again, this is the same pro scouting group who liked Dion Phaneuf. What does that say? You’ve presented their choice in a way to suggest Liljegren was undesirable and I’ve seen you do it in multiple threads. That is dishonest.

Scouts are wrong more often than they’re right.. and they’ll tell you never to count your chickens before they hatch.
 

joe dirte

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
9,430
3,559
It’s dishonest to suggest you can read anything into a singular scouting decision like that when both players are still so young and undeveloped. Again, this is the same pro scouting group who liked Dion Phaneuf. What does that say? You’ve presented their choice in a way to suggest Liljegren was undesirable and I’ve seen you do it in multiple threads. That is dishonest.

Scouts are wrong more often than they’re right.. and they’ll tell you never to count your chickens before they hatch.

Who really cares what he thinks. This is a guy who, not even 2 years ago, was professing that the Ottawa Senators played an entertaining, winning brand of hockey. their entertaining, winning brand of hockey entertains a league low attendance, and managed last place by a wide margin.
 

Green Snow Storm

Registered User
Jul 22, 2009
5,177
1,519
Canada
A fairly one-dimensional offensive defenseman that has 32 points in 87 AHL games so far.
You shouldn’t talk about things you have no idea about. I’m not going to elaborate much further, but if Liljegren is one-dimensional it’s on the defensive side at this point. He played well over 20 minutes a night against the highest of AHL competition and thrived.
 

Albatros

Registered User
Aug 19, 2017
12,522
7,974
Ostsee
You shouldn’t talk about things you have no idea about. I’m not going to elaborate much further, but if Liljegren is one-dimensional it’s on the defensive side at this point. He played well over 20 minutes a night against the highest of AHL competition and thrived.

Thriving meaning third worst +/- out of the 18 defensemen that played for the Marlies last season.
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,810
21,015
I'm fairly confident that by the end of this year this will be clearly Juolevi. His AHL numbers in his short stint last year were very impressive.
I am fairly confident Juolevi will clearly be better also. He is gritty and projects to be a good #3 IMO. His understated play was instrumental in London's memorial cup win.

Lilegren has too many question marks. To add on to Friedman's report of Kings preferring Durzi over Lilegren. Dreger reported on first up the Leafs would have preferred that he was included in the Muzzin trade also, 41:45 he clearly says this. Too many insiders reporting this for it not to be true.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/first-up-may-6-2019-hour-2-1.1301313

Good point about Juolevi's AHL numbers being better than Lilegren also.
 
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Jul 10, 2003
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I am fairly confident Juolevi will clearly be better also. He is gritty and projects to be a good #3 IMO. His understated play was instrumental in London's memorial cup win.

Lilegren has too many question marks. To add on to Friedman's report of Kings preferring Durzi over Lilegren. Dreger reported on first up the Leafs would have preferred that he was included in the Muzzin trade also, 41:45 he clearly says this. Too many insiders reporting this for it not to be true.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/first-up-may-6-2019-hour-2-1.1301313

Good point about Juolevi's AHL numbers being better than Lilegren also.

Just like you were confident that Lawson Crouse would be better than Mitch Marner lol ?? Or was it Laine over Matthews ?
 

Nervousbreakdown

Registered User
Jul 3, 2017
567
389
I don't f***ing care. Liljegren was ranked #2 going into his draft year and got mono and dropped to 17th. He was a dynamic offensive guy who has major holes in his defensive game when he was drafted but ironically he has been turning into the exact type of guy people have been saying the leafs need. Instead of sending him back to Sweden or to the CHL they put him in a harder league and he has excelled. He plays pretty huge minutes for a guy his age.
 

joe dirte

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
9,430
3,559
Nobody has come close to proving that Liljegren was ever offered to LA in the Muzzin trade. It never happened folks.
No, the leafs suckered LA into thinking durzi was the guy they wanted, so they coukd keep their top righthander liljegren. Pretty slick move by leafs management.
 
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joe dirte

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Just like you were confident that Lawson Crouse would be better than Mitch Marner lol ?? Or was it Laine over Matthews ?
Its funny, it was clear to me from day one juolevi was a bad pick. He was getting majorly sheltered playing behind a stacked london knights squad, with marner, tkachuk, thomas, max jones, cristian dvorak.

Even post draft he basically started to get surpassed by evan bouchard, 16 at the time. He showed almost no progression, in part because the team lost the forwards mentioned above, and he was exposed.

Its fine. Liljegren will fit in with the leafs exciting, winning brand of hockey.
 
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Red Piller

Canucks
May 29, 2013
1,989
715
Who really cares what he thinks. This is a guy who, not even 2 years ago, was professing that the Ottawa Senators played an entertaining, winning brand of hockey. their entertaining, winning brand of hockey entertains a league low attendance, and managed last place by a wide margin.

You mean the year they came off an Eastern Conference final and traded away all their good players the following year and finished last? He’s not wrong.
 
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Red Piller

Canucks
May 29, 2013
1,989
715
I don't ****ing care. Liljegren was ranked #2 going into his draft year and got mono and dropped to 17th. He was a dynamic offensive guy who has major holes in his defensive game when he was drafted but ironically he has been turning into the exact type of guy people have been saying the leafs need. Instead of sending him back to Sweden or to the CHL they put him in a harder league and he has excelled. He plays pretty huge minutes for a guy his age.

What does mono have to do with anything? Guys get drafted high even with major injuries. It’s not a valid excuse but I see it used all the time. Getting mono doesn’t change how good you are at hockey. Scouts are not that dumb. He fell because that’s what happens when other guys are better than you

If he had “major defensive holes before he was drafted” he’s not a number 2 overall pick. Stop using that.
 
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joe dirte

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
9,430
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You mean the year they came off an Eastern Conference final and traded away all their good players the following year and finished last? He’s not wrong.

INTO that season, he was chirping that. How great they were, etc, etc.

They were one if the worst teams in the league and it was blatantly clear to anyone with a brain. They were exciting.... in a train wreck way.
 
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garyturner3

Registered User
Jun 16, 2015
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I am fairly confident Juolevi will clearly be better also. He is gritty and projects to be a good #3 IMO. His understated play was instrumental in London's memorial cup win.

Lilegren has too many question marks. To add on to Friedman's report of Kings preferring Durzi over Lilegren. Dreger reported on first up the Leafs would have preferred that he was included in the Muzzin trade also, 41:45 he clearly says this. Too many insiders reporting this for it not to be true.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/first-up-may-6-2019-hour-2-1.1301313

Good point about Juolevi's AHL numbers being better than Lilegren also.

Did you really just say because too many insiders are speculating something that it has to be true? You must realize how many random thoughts get thrown around by insiders on a daily basis. Friedman is the poster child for this as well. Every Saturday he just says what he's thinking on air and people take it for gospel sometimes. Dreger has a bad rap, but at least he tries to pass off his thoughts as insider information so we can all debate whether they're true. Friedman a lot of the time clearly says they're just his thoughts and not coming from any inside information so I don't know why we treat them otherwise.

Jake Gardiner is a perfect example. I read all summer long from countless insiders how he's got a handshake deal in place with MTL or BUF or how he's coming back to the Leafs after Marner signs. Not a single peep on Carolina until it was done. It's their job to give opinions even if they have nothing from an inside source.

Countless is the key word with Gardiner and the insider quotes. On the other hand, there's been very few people even speculating LA preferred Durzi over Liljegren, not "too many insiders for it not to be true". It just grew into a theme on these boards after that first quote came out so people now treat it like it's fact. After the trade went down the majority of people were shocked they could have pulled it off without giving up Sandin or Liljegren because according to most insiders those were clearly the Leafs best two prospects.

Personally I think the Durzi preference speculation is just that...speculation. I would be beyond shocked if TOR or LA actually had Durzi rated higher than Liljegren; it just doesn't make any sense IMO after what we've seen from both prospects so far. They're still young prospects afterall so obviously either could turn out to be the better player long term, but come on. If you have the choice between these two players right now it's a pretty simple choice.
 
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Nervousbreakdown

Registered User
Jul 3, 2017
567
389
What does mono have to do with anything? Guys get drafted high even with major injuries. It’s not a valid excuse but I see it used all the time. Getting mono doesn’t change how good you are at hockey. Scouts are not that dumb. He fell because that’s what happens when other guys are better than you

If he had “major defensive holes before he was drafted” he’s not a number 2 overall pick. Stop using that.
I don't think you understand how prospects work, players with major flaws go high all the time, a player with a few elite traits in their game probably has more room to grow in the other ones than someone who is just decent all around . Also part of what hurt him in his draft year was getting sick. While he was sick other players passed him, and its tough to come back after mono because it takes a long time to get your strength back. Its obviously wasn't the only thing but he was ranked 2 by most people going into the year and the leafs got him at 17. that has steal potential written all over it.
 

Bounces R Way

Registered User
Nov 18, 2013
34,299
54,242
Weegartown
Liljegren without having to think about it much, and I'm not really a big Liljegren guy.

Juolevi is one of the softest defenseman I've ever seen play an NHL game. Injuries can really hurt a player's mental.
 

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