Olli Juolevi vs. Timothy Liljegren

[Halla]

Im not implying they are both as bad as one was way worse. However one fell because of mono I believe he was hyped as top 5 pick at one point. Regardless Canucks have worse pick even though both are disappointing picks.

I don't think many leafs fans would consider Liljegren at 17OA with a good chance of making the leafs as a 20 year old, a disappointing pick

Maybe if players with star potential like tkachuk and keller were picked DIRECTLY after it would be different. luckily the next two guys have played a combined 2 NHL games and havent recorded a point. Liljegren is right where he needs to be. its put up time for guys like puljujarvi,juolevi, and nylander especially given the success of the other guys in the top 9 in that draft (Matthews,Laine,Dubois,Tkachuk,Keller and Sergachev)

 

[Halla]

Juolevi by a fair margin.

based on his looking completely lost in the AHL last year when healthy (which was not often)

yeah, cool.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

But he didn't tear up the OHL nor did he do that in the Swedish juniors, so all we have left are injuries and mediocre at best AHL seasons. Little reason to label him a blue-chip prospect.

His first AHL season was the best PPG by and 18 year old D by that time. It was a good season by any standard.

Last year he has two high ankle sprains consecutively so his regular season was not an indicator of his level as a player. He recovered in time for the playoffs and had an excellent playoffs on the top pairing for the Marlies with very little PP time.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Why do you think that? Just curious since I haven't followed Juolevi's progress as much as Lilijegrens.

He was on his way last year to playing, after back surgery he started out in Utica as a top player, 22+ mins a night, 1st PP, exc. 13 pts in 18 games I believe. Benning said he would've played last year had his season not ended so quickly with the knee injury.

If he's healthy he'll play in the NHL at some point this season.

usually true when a guy has had three seasons of development vs two

Except he missed most of last year, so that's not really true.

 

[Albatros]

His first AHL season was the best PPG by and 18 year old D by that time. It was a good season by any standard.

I suppose you can make that technically true by defining it in a certain way, but in that case he was also the only one. Samorukov had a slightly higher PPG but played only five games, and David Noël played one game without recording a point. Other 18-year-olds there weren't.

 

[justafan22]

Liljegren's a safer prospect IMO.

 

[tony d]

Juolevi

 

[Killer Orcas]

I don't think many leafs fans would consider Liljegren at 17OA with a good chance of making the leafs as a 20 year old, a disappointing pick

Maybe if players with star potential like tkachuk and keller were picked DIRECTLY after it would be different. luckily the next two guys have played a combined 2 NHL games and havent recorded a point. Liljegren is right where he needs to be. its put up time for guys like puljujarvi,juolevi, and nylander especially given the success of the other guys in the top 9 in that draft (Matthews,Laine,Dubois,Tkachuk,Keller and Sergachev)

Let me rephrase this as your understanding wrong from what I meant. Liljigren was the right pick for Leafs his development is whats disappointing. At one time maybe within year of draft he was being touted as a possible top 5 pick and only fell because of an illness not his play during the year. I myself wanted him at one point. He still might be a very good player but considering the lofty heights he once was put at yes to me he's been disappointing. Not knocking pick when he fell to Leafs even I was surprised as his talent level was a lot higher then his draft position. However he hasn't dominated the AHL like I would have expected. He's young though and hopefully proves his worth as he would be a welcome edition to Leaf next season.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Thus you can not use it as an argument.

What?

 

[Mildan]

Juolevi struggled with injuries but when healthy, he has looked good

 

[Albatros]

What?

"Had he torn up the OHL" is not a valid argument because he never did it, not in the OHL and not in Sweden.

 

[joe dirte]

I knew juolevi was a bad pick from the moment they took him.

He wssnt really that good in junior, he was just on a stacked team.

I dont thi k liljegren will be a star or anything, but easily better than juolevi.

 

[Ctrain2k]

Why speak with authority if you don't follow the player? What he was drafted as, and how he is being developed are two different things. He had some injury trouble, and had a monster playoffs. He is draft +2, had he torn up the OHL people would love him.

Can he at least turn 21 before he is considered a bust? He will turn some heads this year IMO.

Why would he get that luxury when a guy like Puljujarvi who actually played great in the ahl, people consider him a bust.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

"Had he torn up the OHL" is not a valid argument because he never did it, not in the OHL and not in Sweden.

Nobody brought up the OHL? Lol

 

[Kamiccolo]

Why would he get that luxury when a guy like Puljujarvi who actually played great in the ahl, people consider him a bust.

Edmonton doesn't have a great reputation when it comes to developing struggling talent, that is why.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Why would he get that luxury when a guy like Puljujarvi who actually played great in the ahl, people consider him a bust.

Because Puljujari has actually gotten games in the NHL? We cant be this obtuse can we? He is 2 years out of his draft and this year coming up is his first year not junior eligible. If people aren't knowledgeable about about him but dont act like you do if you dont.

 

[joe dirte]

Why would he get that luxury when a guy like Puljujarvi who actually played great in the ahl, people consider him a bust.

While thats fair, he was also drafted a lot higher so the expectations are higher.

 

[Albatros]

Nobody brought up the OHL? Lol

The very message I quoted did, but I respect that you may suffer of cognitive challenges so don't hesitate to ask if you need further assistance regarding this matter.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

A fairly one-dimensional offensive defenseman that has 32 points in 87 AHL games so far.

Proof that you don't know shit about Liljegren

 

[nobody]

Let me rephrase this as your understanding wrong from what I meant. Liljigren was the right pick for Leafs his development is whats disappointing. At one time maybe within year of draft he was being touted as a possible top 5 pick and only fell because of an illness not his play during the year. I myself wanted him at one point. He still might be a very good player but considering the lofty heights he once was put at yes to me he's been disappointing. Not knocking pick when he fell to Leafs even I was surprised as his talent level was a lot higher then his draft position. However he hasn't dominated the AHL like I would have expected. He's young though and hopefully proves his worth as he would be a welcome edition to Leaf next season.

They drafted a player who fell in the draft because of mono and bouncing around 5 teams. They drafted a kid who was an offensive stud but a major gambler and often a turnover machine in his own zone. They took that player and basically neutered his offense and turned him into a defense first d-man. He has also suffered 2 major injuries since being drafted. Lilly hasn't had the smoothest of pro careers so far but this is no where near the same d-man (stylistically) to what was drafted and highly touted at the draft. Before the draft he was hyped and compared to Letang/ Karlsson. Marlies have turned him into a Stralman. We don't need offensive d-men for the big club. What we need are puck moving d-men who play a sound defensive game. This is what Lilly currently is. This is what Sandin currently is. This is what Dermott currently is.

 

[nobody]

Why would he get that luxury when a guy like Puljujarvi who actually played great in the ahl, people consider him a bust.

HF people aren't that bright? Pullu isn't a bust. He's a kid sitting in no-mans land. He's a tweener that isn't being spoon fed NHL minutes and subsequently struggling to produce. He made a smart decision going back to LIGA and playing heavy minutes. I would love to take Pullu off the Oilers hands because that's a horrible trade waiting to happen.

 

[nobody]

A fairly one-dimensional offensive defenseman that has 32 points in 87 AHL games so far.

Please stop. This is literally the dumbest thing I've read on HF today and I've read 3 Marner threads. Get a clue and come back with an informed opinion please. Thank you

 

[Killer Orcas]

They drafted a player who fell in the draft because of mono and bouncing around 5 teams. They drafted a kid who was an offensive stud but a major gambler and often a turnover machine in his own zone. They took that player and basically neutered his offense and turned him into a defense first d-man. He has also suffered 2 major injuries since being drafted. Lilly hasn't had the smoothest of pro careers so far but this is no where near the same d-man (stylistically) to what was drafted and highly touted at the draft. Before the draft he was hyped and compared to Letang/ Karlsson. Marlies have turned him into a Stralman. We don't need offensive d-men for the big club. What we need are puck moving d-men who play a sound defensive game. This is what Lilly currently is. This is what Sandin currently is. This is what Dermott currently is.

Strange they would stifle his offence but he did have a weak shot anyway. Long as he's more responsible now and your happy with his development that's great. Anytime you can find a skating RHD that's responsible in his own end you should be happy. I just thought he was more of a offensively gifted player hence the disappointment for me but if Leaf happy great.

 

[Albatros]

Regarding the playing for multiple teams in one season argument, this is standard practice in Sweden and would be exceptional if it wasn't the case at that age.

 

[nobody]

Strange they would stifle his offence but he did have a weak shot anyway. Long as he's more responsible now and your happy with his development that's great. Anytime you can find a skating RHD that's responsible in his own end you should be happy. I just thought he was more of a offensively gifted player hence the disappointment for me but if Leaf happy great.

Lilly used to have a patented 1 turnover per game that would end up in our net because he would server it up on a platter right in the slot to the other team. He no longer does that. EVER.

Lilly's game is extremely sound defensively. He's elite for AHL standards. He has an amazing first pass and his zone exits are flawless. Offensively he can make amazing stretch passes, but he doesn't jump into the rush anywhere near as much as he used to and therefore he's rarely caught out of position. He never makes stupid pinches either. I honestly think HF is going to massively surprised just how good of a player this kid has become when he comes up to the Leafs (at some point this year, potentially may break camp with the Leafs). He's not going to wow you with big offensive numbers but this guy is legitimately in the mold of Stralman. Should end up as a reliable top 2-4 Dman with above average defense, good skating, great passing and probably 20-25 points a year. Its no where near his 40-50 point potential PP QB draft hype but he is an asset to his team right now.

Leafs developmental staff has worked exceptionally with our prospects for the past 3-4 years. Specially since Keefe has been here. They have taken players and molded them into NHL players who are tailor made for the big club. Lilly at the draft was a good prospect but had he kept up his playing style, would never sniff the NHL. He was smart enough to realize that and has molded his game to be more NHL friendly.