Olli Juolevi vs. Timothy Liljegren

[garyturner3]

Liljegren is boom or bust imo, with a higher ceiling. Juolevi is more of a sure thing.

The bolded shows me that you haven't followed this player very closely since he was drafted. With the way Liljegren's defensive game has improved, that statement couldn't be further from the truth. I view the guy as essentially a lock at this point to be an NHL-er; people are just too focused on point totals when they judge him because they assume he's just an offensive d-man.

 

[Pip]

Feel like Juolevi is closer to being an NHL player than Liljegren.

Juolevi isn’t close to the NHL. Do you even follow this prospect? He missed most of last year due to injury and when he did play he couldn’t defend against AHLers. He needs some huge improvements in his game before he can be looked at as a potential callup.

 

[Pyrophorus]

LA preferred Durzi over Liljegren? Is there a source for that?

His hate-addled mind.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Let me rephrase this as your understanding wrong from what I meant. Liljigren was the right pick for Leafs his development is whats disappointing. At one time maybe within year of draft he was being touted as a possible top 5 pick and only fell because of an illness not his play during the year. I myself wanted him at one point. He still might be a very good player but considering the lofty heights he once was put at yes to me he's been disappointing. Not knocking pick when he fell to Leafs even I was surprised as his talent level was a lot higher then his draft position. However he hasn't dominated the AHL like I would have expected. He's young though and hopefully proves his worth as he would be a welcome edition to Leaf next season.

Liljegren was the 7th youngest player in the AHL last year, which was his second season playing there. You can’t expect a 19 year old to dominate the AHL.

 

[WillTheThrill]

I think the odds of either of them being top pairing at this point are virtually zero.
You can’t put up the kind of numbers Liljigren did last year and argue that there is top pairing potential. That ship has sailed for both of them imo.

Disagree. Liljegren is still extremely young. He just turned 20 and already has two AHL seasons under his belt which is very rare. This is a big year for him.

 

[McClelland]

"Liljegren must improve: learning how to use his speed and getting stronger so he can win more battles."

Nhl are another animal, i dont count him out to be a Nhl player yet because some D prospect takes more time to develop! But to say hes follow his develop schedule arent true , from a hightouted offensive prospect to a 5-6 guy!
Hes inside the top 10 falling prospect group for a reason!

 

[82Ninety42011]

Liljegren was the 7th youngest player in the AHL last year, which was his second season playing there. You can’t expect a 19 year old to dominate the AHL.

Another Leaf poster has enlightened me on how he has changed his game since being drafted. From a risk taking turnover prone offensive player to a steady and reliable smooth skating defensive player. He will have a fine career but he is not the same offensive player that was drafted. However he will make a great top 4 defender if he continues his play and maybe even a top pairing Dman beside Reilly possibly in a few seasons.

 

[Wings4Life]

I think the odds of either of them being top pairing at this point are virtually zero.
You can’t put up the kind of numbers Liljigren did last year and argue that there is top pairing potential. That ship has sailed for both of them imo.

Do you watch Marlies games?

If so, you'd know Liljegren struggled through a pair of nagging injuries during the regular season which affected his production. Both of which are behind him now.

Juolevi's injuries required surgery and by the sounds of them are far more serious/career-altering. The amount of development time he missed also can't be ignored.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Juolevi isn’t close to the NHL. Do you even follow this prospect? He missed most of last year due to injury and when he did play he couldn’t defend against AHLers. He needs some huge improvements in his game before he can be looked at as a potential callup.

Yup, since 2015-16. He was coming along last year & would've already played injury aside. If he can get back to where he left off he'll play this season. "Couldn't defend" hyperbole aside, is there still work for him to do? For sure. But coming in off back surgery & being a top D on an AHL team is nothing to just brush aside.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Do you watch Marlies games?

If so, you'd know Liljegren struggled through a pair of nagging injuries during the regular season which affected his production. Both of which are behind him now.

Juolevi's injuries required surgery and by the sounds of them are far more serious/career-altering. The amount of development time he missed also can't be ignored.

Juolevi looks to be right back on track in the early going. I’ve heard nothing about his injuries being career threatening although they certainly have slowed his development. 13 points in 18 games in his first time in the AHL was nothing to sneeze and he would likely have got a call up last year if not injured.
Should be a big year for him this year. Excited to see what a healthy Juolevi can do.

 

[7even]

A fairly one-dimensional offensive defenseman that has 32 points in 87 AHL games so far.

Liljegren hasn't been an offensive defenseman since his draft-1 year. His focus on the Marlies has been defense first and foremost, where his results are good in top pair deployment. I see his NHL career as a bottom pairing 2-way defender who can move the puck simply and well, and spot fill on the 2nd pair if need be.

Always easy to spot who has an opinion but isn't actually following the prospect.

 

[Albatros]

Liljegren hasn't been an offensive defenseman since his draft-1 year. His focus on the Marlies has been defense first and foremost, where his results are good in top pair deployment. I see his NHL career as a bottom pairing 2-way defender who can move the puck simply and well, and spot fill on the 2nd pair if need be.

Always easy to spot who has an opinion but isn't actually following the prospect.

Is a player optimistically seen as "a bottom pairing 2-way defender" what you would call "a blue-chip prospect"? Without the offense there's nothing about his game that would make him a player of any significant value in the NHL.

 

[7even]

Is a player optimistically seen as "a bottom pairing 2-way defender" what you would call "a blue-chip prospect"? Without the offense there's nothing about his game that would make him a player of any significant value in the NHL.

I didn't and wouldn't call him a blue chipper, no.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

LA preferred Durzi over Liljegren? Is there a source for that?

Eliotte Friedman reported it in 31 thoughts.

I was initially surprised that Timothy Liljegren wasn’t included. But, after looking deeper, teams are down on him right now. He’s not yet 20 — way too soon to give up — but several scouts were not surprised the Kings chose OHL Guelph’s Sean Durzi over Liljegren.

His hate-addled mind.

Why would a respected hockey insider like Friedman have a hate filled mind?

 

[Albatros]

I didn't and wouldn't call him a blue chipper, no.

Yet that was what I responded to. Of course he can work on becoming a generic mediocre defenseman playing a safe game in exchange for a potential bottom-pairing job instead of the offensive threat he was drafted as, but then one should at least abandon the blue-chip nonsense once and for all.

 

[7even]

Yet that was what I responded to. Of course he can work on becoming a generic mediocre defenseman playing a safe game in exchange for a potential bottom-pairing job instead of the offensive threat he was drafted as, but then one should at least abandon the blue-chip nonsense once and for all.

No, you said he was a failed one-dimensional offensive defenseman, which he objectively isn't. The conclusion, that he's not a blue chip prospect, may be right, but the reasoning is wrong.

 

[Albatros]

No, you said he was a failed one-dimensional offensive defenseman, which he objectively isn't. The conclusion, that he's not a blue chip prospect, may be right, but the reasoning is wrong.

I wrote he was fairly one-dimensional, not "failed". Either way he can work on his defense all he wants, but he'll just lose his offensive edge and never become more than at best mediocre defensively.

 

[joe dirte]

I wrote he was fairly one-dimensional, not "failed". Either way he can work on his defense all he wants, but he'll just lose his offensive edge and never become more than at best mediocre defensively.

I personally think he projects to be middle pairing not bottom pairing.

And that imo projects better than juolevi. Hes not very good at all.

 

[Albatros]

In terms of offensive production Juolevi has been very good everywhere he went. Just needs to stay healthy and play with more consistency.

 

[sparxx87]

Eliotte Friedman reported it in 31 thoughts.



Why would a respected hockey insider like Friedman have a hate filled mind?

The Kings pro scouts also thought Dion Phaneuf would help their defense. How reliable are they? Could it be that scouts make dozens of personnel decisions every year and you need to wait to see how it turns out?

I’ve seen you present this more than once, implying Durzi is the better prospect when in fact we don’t know either way. We have a report on what the Kings staff thought - the same staff who again, thought Dion Phaneuf was a good defenseman. Were they right then or right now? One of each?

We just don’t know... Stop trying to mislead people.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The Kings pro scouts also thought Dion Phaneuf would help their defense.

How reliable are they? Could it be that scouts make dozens of personnel decisions every year and you need to wait to see how it turns out?

I’ve seen you present this more than once, implying Durzi is the better prospect when in fact we don’t know either way. We have a report on what the Kings staff thought - the same staff who again, thought Dion Phaneuf was a good defenseman. Were they right then or right now? One of each?

We just don’t know... Stop trying to mislead people.

Why would a respected hockey insider in Friedman try to mislead people?
He clearly says several scouts are not surprised the Kings preferred Durzi to Lilegren, not Kings scouts. Do you have access to scouts like Friedman has?

I was initially surprised that Timothy Liljegren wasn’t included. But, after looking deeper, teams are down on him right now. He’s not yet 20 — way too soon to give up — but several scouts were not surprised the Kings chose OHL Guelph’s Sean Durzi over Liljegren.

BTW Proman has the LA Kings as the #4 top farm system in the NHL. Did you know this? Kings scouts are doing well and are making a lot of good calls.

 

[AcerComputer]

I think the odds of either of them being top pairing at this point are virtually zero.
You can’t put up the kind of numbers Liljigren did last year and argue that there is top pairing potential. That ship has sailed for both of them imo.

That's the kinda of thinking NHL teams are looking for when hiring their next GM. Maybe EDM is hiring.

 

[sparxx87]

Why would a respected hockey insider in Friedman try to mislead people?
He clearly says several scouts are not surprised the Kings preferred Durzi to Lilegren, not Kings scouts. Do you have access to scouts like Friedman has?

It’s you trying to mislead, nobody else. You’re trying to imply one is better than the other based on unscientific opinion yet we don’t need to look any further than the draft every year to see how often they’re wrong. Scouts make educated guesses and fail all the time. They’re guesses. Only time will tell.

Durzi wasn’t even drafted his first year of eligibility. A lot can change with young d men over the course of a year yet here you are, never missing an opportunity to slight a Leaf player... Always keeping it classy.

I don’t know? What access does he have?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It’s you trying to mislead, nobody else. You’re trying to imply one is better than the other based on unscientific opinion yet we don’t need to look any further than the draft every year to see how often they’re wrong. Scouts make educated guesses and fail all the time. They’re guesses. Only time will tell.

Durzi wasn’t even drafted his first year of eligibility. A lot can change with young d men over the course of a year yet here you are, never missing an opportunity to slight a Leaf player... Always keeping it classy.

I don’t know? What access does he have?

I quoted Friedman. So answer the question. How or why would he mislead people with this? Are you saying he would lie to make Durzi sound preferable to Lilegren?

Do you have any sources or quotes to back up what he reported was inaccurate? No, I didn't think so.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It’s you trying to mislead, nobody else. You’re trying to imply one is better than the other based on unscientific opinion yet we don’t need to look any further than the draft every year to see how often they’re wrong. Scouts make educated guesses and fail all the time. They’re guesses. Only time will tell.

Durzi wasn’t even drafted his first year of eligibility. A lot can change with young d men over the course of a year yet here you are, never missing an opportunity to slight a Leaf player... Always keeping it classy.

I don’t know? What access does he have?

BTW, you panned the Kings scouts. Care to comment how the Kings scouts are so bad when they were rated the #4 farm system in the NHL by Pronman in his latest rankings? Sound like Kings scouts are good evaluators of talent right?