Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. III | Off to Juo-tica

[DonnyNucker]

Against the other teams best players? Sounds like fun.

What is your solution? Don’t trade Edler? Sign an expensive UFA?

 

[xtra]

Do you seriously think that they do this much spinning so that the fans and media are not on their asses and they look good? You only have a pretty defined timetable for producing results.

I fail to see how Ryan Johnson praising Juolevi has anything to do with optics for job security either. There is no way in hiding it if he's not playing well after all and right now his measuring stick is the AHL so of course fans have to take it with a grain of salt. Also RJ doing that unnecessarily would lead to his reputation getting tarnished so maybe i'm naive but i just dont see it and its not like he's come out and said anything about his future NHL trajectory.

I think it's pretty telling if you read into the way criticism or praise gets heaped on players. Sometimes i feel its needed to push certain types and in this case we've seen that with Sami Salo. Criticism a lot of times is measured against the expectations. What a coach says vs a GM who should care more about asset value and cap returns also has to be measured. Bottom line is praise is good and criticism publicly is probably more for motivation.......silence would be the most concerning

The one thing we all know is that this management group does care what the media and market say. We have seen them spin everything to suit their narrative. Are you saying they don’t spin it?


my only point has been that praise coming from someone with skin in the game needs to be taken with a grain of salt. If someone that’s is not beholden to the franchise came out and praised oj it’s something I would take it more seriously. Someone on espn recently praised him and I was like ok maybe he’s getting better.

 

[Krnuckfan]

Juolevi is showing why he was selected 5th overall, he is being groomed to be a top 4 defenceman and putting him out on all situations. I think Canucks are accelerating his development in case they trade Edler by the deadline.

on an unrelated note, by all means, we should never trade Tanev.

Lol the irony...talking about accelerated development of a prospect drafted 5th overall in his d+3 season who still hasn't played a single NHL game...

 

[Melvin]

Lol the irony...talking about accelerated development of a prospect drafted 5th overall in his d+3 season who still hasn't played a single NHL game...

Is it possible to use the term accelerated development non ironically? Going with no.

 

[sting101]

The one thing we all know is that this management group does care what the media and market say. We have seen them spin everything to suit their narrative. Are you saying they don’t spin it?


my only point has been that praise coming from someone with skin in the game needs to be taken with a grain of salt. If someone that’s is not beholden to the franchise came out and praised oj it’s something I would take it more seriously. Someone on espn recently praised him and I was like ok maybe he’s getting better.

fair enough. i just dont see how praising OJ would be a political move for Ryan Johnson but as far as i'm concerned he's doing exactly what i had hoped for. Playing 20min and running the PP in the AHL and producing while his body heals from a pretty scary surgery. I'm sure there will be some ebbs and flows to his year and as long as he looks like a NHL player by seasons end i'm confident his skillset will move him swiftly to a top4 by next year after a full off season to train and some familiarity with his teammates.

I could care less about speed of getting here. When they brought back 4 LD and he had surgery all i wanted was a healthy year of progression and this seems to be the case....albeit a short sample

I watched his Liiga games to end last year and he looked really good. I think people have to adjust somewhat for the likely event of a good top4 ceiling not a true number 1 dynamic player......he will never be dynamic and likely not a #1 either unless he's one of those slow marinating Scandanavian players that gets better and better every year. From what i've seen of his abilities he would probably be the best player on our team once we got out of our zone. His legs need to get more powerful. You can see it late in shifts and as he tires and in his top end speed. I'm a lot more encouraged by a guy that is talented in skills that one will never learn at this stage vs an athlete that needs leg power.

 

[KingOfTheES]

the more important question is how many of those names you are throwing around would you rather have going forward.

The only guys I listed I would actually have to think hard about would be Hillman and Hronek as I'm not overly familiar with them. I'd easily take the rest of them.

On another note I think it's interesting that contributing earlier in their careers is so easily dismissed. If Joulevi somehow turns out to be as good an NHL defender as a Chychrun, Sergachev, or McAvoy he is 70-100 games behind what the others have already contributed to their teams. Just like if Joulevi ends up being a 35pt defenseman who's value is roughly equivalent to Tkachuk Tkachuk is still the better draft choice as he's already 150 games deep in his career and contributed 2 productive seasons to his team.

 

[Pavel96]

What is your solution? Don’t trade Edler? Sign an expensive UFA?

Hire a new gm and let him sort it out properly instead of failing for 4 years plus to rebuild the d.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Hire a new gm and let him sort it out properly instead of failing for 4 years plus to rebuild the d.

Oh I see. Thought this was the Juolevi thread

 

[y2kcanucks]

Oh I see. Thought this was the Juolevi thread

It is. He was simply responding to a question YOU asked.

 

[DonnyNucker]

It is. He was simply responding to a question YOU asked.

I was speaking about a prospect and he replied with fire the GM. Not very constructive. I doubt Benning is fired this year so everyone should be hoping the prospects are developed as well as possible. Juolevi was clearly a bad pick but I’m still hoping he progresses this year and gets a few games after the TDL

 

[ScottishCanuck]

y2k hates Juolevi... who'd a thunk it?

Any excuse for a moan.

 

[timw33]

2 productive seasons to his team.

Flames look like they'll get a 50 point pace season (48 actual), a 60-point pace (49 actual), and probably a 70 point season from Matthew Tkachuk for 3 years at $925k ($1.75MM w/all bonuses met).

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

lol....Its only here that posters pump up the oppositions players to belittle their own...

 

[F A N]

Of course not, even if Olli never becomes the #1 dman they thought he could be they won’t critizie him.

my point is that you can’t put much if any stock into an Canuck employee praising a player (we mostly agree hasn’t developed like a top 5 pick should) that is being derived in the market place as another bad move by the management.

Well of course. You got to make your own judgment. I don't see the whole "won't criticize him" argument of yours. What relevance is there? I just told you that you won't find any GMs dolling out the type of criticism that you are criticizing management for not doing nor should anyone of us want to. What good comes from Benning telling the media something harshly critical of Juolevi? What you are suggesting doesn't make sense.

I fully expect Johnson and benning to come out and say great things about Olli to make themselves and the pick look good because they look worse the worse he is seen.

On a side note that’s why I find it hard to think they will move the farm team here because of more people could get a first hand view of the prospects that are struggling they could refute the opinions of the management easier.

Example: kole lind is struggling a bit but cause he’s out of sight and out of mind the team and media can hype him up

Again, no one cares about your expectations of what management says or won't say. They will say what they want to say and they are entitled to it just as you are entitled to your own expectations.

 

[Hit the post]

lol....Its only here that posters pump up the oppositions players to belittle their own...

Who exactly is belittling Boeser or EP?

 

[xtra]

Well of course. You got to make your own judgment. I don't see the whole "won't criticize him" argument of yours. What relevance is there? I just told you that you won't find any GMs dolling out the type of criticism that you are criticizing management for not doing nor should anyone of us want to. What good comes from Benning telling the media something harshly critical of Juolevi? What you are suggesting doesn't make sense.



Again, no one cares about your expectations of what management says or won't say. They will say what they want to say and they are entitled to it just as you are entitled to your own expectations.

Simple question: if in the eyes of this management team he was failing do you think they would come out and say that? I don’t and I don’t expect them to. I would expect them like every other gm and management team to make it seem rosy of his progression and even exhagarate it.

Now with the understanding that benning and Johnson and all will say only positive things in the media (as to be expected) we should take praise with a bit of salt.

You seem to want everyone to take the words of the management at face value without understanding that they need to put the best face forward.

All I’m saying is their words in public aren’t the holy grail some people make it out to be.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I was speaking about a prospect and he replied with fire the GM. Not very constructive. I doubt Benning is fired this year so everyone should be hoping the prospects are developed as well as possible. Juolevi was clearly a bad pick but I’m still hoping he progresses this year and gets a few games after the TDL

No. You were suggesting playing Juolevi with Tanev. He took issue with that because that would be throwing Juolevi to the wolves putting him up against the other team's top lines. YOU then came back asking what his suggestion would be, one of the ideas you put forth was to sign a UFA (is that about Juolevi too?). So he gave you his answer. What's not constructive is you pulling the bait and switch like you did.

 

[y2kcanucks]

y2k hates Juolevi... who'd a thunk it?

Any excuse for a moan.

He was an awful pick who hasn't developed like a 5th overall pick should. I'd say that's a legitimate gripe.

 

[DonnyNucker]

No. You were suggesting playing Juolevi with Tanev. He took issue with that because that would be throwing Juolevi to the wolves putting him up against the other team's top lines. YOU then came back asking what his suggestion would be, one of the ideas you put forth was to sign a UFA (is that about Juolevi too?). So he gave you his answer. What's not constructive is you pulling the bait and switch like you did.

This entire post is full of lies lol. I have no interest in any UFAs I simply stated that Tanev could be a good mentor for Juolevi at the end of the season. There is zero point discussing canucks prospects with you however. Juolevi is a disaster, EP and Boeser were huge mistakes. Everyone on here knows your anti-canucks schtick. Your boy Vilardi plays with the kings by the way

 

[y2kcanucks]

This entire post is full of lies lol. I have no interest in any UFAs I simply stated that Tanev could be a good mentor for Juolevi at the end of the season. There is zero point discussing canucks prospects with you however. Juolevi is a disaster, EP and Boeser were huge mistakes. Everyone on here knows your anti-canucks schtick. Your boy Vilardi plays with the kings by the way

Next time you accuse me of lying at least make sure it's about something that's not so easily discovered:

What is your solution? Don’t trade Edler? Sign an expensive UFA?

What are you bringing up Vilardi for? I thought this was a Juolevi thread?

 

[DonnyNucker]

Next time you accuse me of lying at least make sure it's about something that's not so easily discovered:



What are you bringing up Vilardi for? I thought this was a Juolevi thread?

I wasn’t suggesting I want a UFA. I asked if that’s what Pavel wanted. I was poking fun of you for your EP hate and your love affair with Vilardi. But yes, off topic. My bad

 

[xtra]

I wasn’t suggesting I want a UFA. I asked if that’s what Pavel wanted. I was poking fun of you for your EP hate and your love affair with Vilardi. But yes, off topic. My bad

So wait your ready to say petersson is for sure better than valardi but it’s too early to say anything negative about Juolevi?

 

[krutovsdonut]

maybe an analytics guy can help me with this.

what is the ratio of juolevi thread comments to minutes played?

 

[DonnyNucker]

So wait your ready to say petersson is for sure better than valardi but it’s too early to say anything negative about Juolevi?

Have you followed my posts? I said Juolevi was clearly the wrong pick. I have lots of negative things to say about Juolevi. Yes, I’m personally ready to say EP will be a far superior player to Vilardi. No doubt in my mind. I don’t care for sluggish prospects with injury problems. Canucks went with a high ceiling and exceptional skill when they selected EP. sadly, they chose a high floor in my opinion when they selected Juolevi

 

[y2kcanucks]

I wasn’t suggesting I want a UFA. I asked if that’s what Pavel wanted. I was poking fun of you for your EP hate and your love affair with Vilardi. But yes, off topic. My bad

But it's a Juolevi thread so why were you asking about UFA's? Why bring that up only to shut Pavel down when he gave you an answer? That's exactly the point I was making. He was responding to a question YOU asked.

And since you brought it up I've liked EP since day 1. I had him ranked around where we picked him. I just felt Vilardi was the better pick. But like others have mentioned, how is it too early to judge Juolevi when you're ready to dub EP a huge success? Also what EP hate? I've loved everything I've seen from him since he was drafted.