Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. III | Off to Juo-tica

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xtra

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Green criticizes players all the time (mostly young players) in mostly a nonoffensive way. Benning and Johnson have talked about what some players need to work on.

Have any come out and said that this was a bad pick who has not progressed as we thought he should or said that this player has failed at expectations?
 

bossram

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In 2016-17 the London Knights had the 4th best regular season record in the 20 team OHL. There were only 4 points back of #1 overall and would have won two of the league's four divisions handily. They had the 3rd most goals in the 20 team league that season.

Losing Dvorak, Marner and Tkachuk didn't keep his fellow defencemen on the Knights from increasing their scoring. Comparing 2015-16 (draft year for Juolevi and Mete) with 2016-17,

Juolevi went from 42 pts in 57 games (0.737) to 42 pts in 58 games (0.724)
Mete went from 38 pts in 68 games (.559) to 44 pts in 50 games (.88)
Bouchard went from 17 pts in 43 games (.395) to 44 pts in 68 games (.647)

In his draft season Juolevi had 9 pts in 9 games in the WJC and was considered a star. In his D + 1 season he had 2 pts in 6 games and was considered a major disappointment.

Between his draft season and his D + 1 season Juolevi went from being the best defenceman both on a Memorial Cup winning junior team AND a championship winning world junior team to a 2nd pairing defenceman and major disappointment on a good junior team and on a disappointing WJC team. His intensity level and lack of physicality were major disppointments in his D + 1 season and he was not better defensively.

There is no reasonable argument that Juolevi progressed between his Draft and Draft + 1 seasons.

This is a very good post.

I can't understand why some people just have such a hard time saying that OJ stagnated in his D+1 for what could be a myriad of reasons, yet also made some good strides in his D+2 and seems to be coming along well in Utica now.

Like, it is possible for all of the above to be true.
 

Motte and Bailey

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Finland’s WJC team was also much weaker in Juolevi’s D+1 year. They lost Laine, Aho, Kapanen, Rantanen and Puljujarvi (who wasn’t a pigeon at the time). Compare that to having Tolvanen, Vesalainen, and a bunch of no names the year after. Of course Juolevi isn’t going to have as many points. He’s a support player. He doesn’t drive the offense so you can’t expect huge numbers from him if he has no forwards to support. People are missing the point and miscasting him into a player he’s not which warps expectations of what his point totals should be.
 
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Jay Cee

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I am not really sure why we can't get over the talk of his d+1 year. He had another year that he spent in Finland and now he is the AHL. I am pretty skeptical he was worth his draft position but it was what it is at this point. He is going to sink or swim in pro. His year after the draft is not relevant.
 
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krutovsdonut

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you can argue whether juolevi stagnated or not d+1, but he didn't make any significant strides. i think he's incrementally improved each year in a way that narrows his destiny towards the alternatives of decent nhl career or philip larsen style nhl bust for his future. he still shows the iq, poise and passing skills that got him drafted and they have translated so far at each stage. this suggests he'll be good if he can handle the physical nhl game. if he can't he'll be good in another gentler league on another continent.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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He's -6, but can anyone who's seen his games tell me what he's been like defensively?

and tied for most point for ahl rookie dmans. from people whois watched him play they say hes their best dman or 2nd best dman. he's also tasked to play against the other teams top lines who are capitalizing on us not having our star goalie too which is resulting in him being scored on more then often, which is actually hurting the team as a whole. Taking away Gaudette from them also is hurting the comets. Defensively he's been very good, just needs to be more aggressive. defensively he checks out.

good and bad news

bad news. 5v5 offensively not his specialty as of now. No 5v5 points.

good news. he's a power play specialist as it seems like all his points are coming off the power play. not bad for a guy that is not suppose to play offense right?

overall still needs time in the AHL.
 
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Yultron

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Yes don't rush the kid. I know alot of people are still angry that we passed on Tkatchuk but Juolevi the last two season has really showed his potential and he has definitely been showing his potential this season with 5 points in the first 7 games. I didn't even think he would contribute offensively too that magnitude this early but it's a great sign. He has the potential to be a solid top 4 defenseman for a very very long time and I don't wanna rush him either. Like the other poster said I think at the trade deadline after or if we trade Edler is the perfect opportunity for him to come up and play for 20 games then you can send him back too the AHL for the playoffs and help Utica.

I believe that next season is the perfect time for Juolevi too come up and contribute and once we get Hughes aswell our defense is going to be solid. Especially once MDZ is out of this lineup. Gubranson I can live with on the 3rd line until his contract is up
 

The Iron Goalie

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Was really disappointed Green didn't try him on the PP in the pre-season. He's probably our best "pro" PP d-man atm. He has excellent ability to set up one-timers (not pass into Boeser/Pettersson feet), and can actually hit the net - instead of legs - with his shots.

Still needs time in the AHL to work on his intensity (looks better so far vs pre-season/ last season).
 

elwin316

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Was really disappointed Green didn't try him on the PP in the pre-season. He's probably our best "pro" PP d-man atm. He has excellent ability to set up one-timers (not pass into Boeser/Pettersson feet), and can actually hit the net - instead of legs - with his shots.

Still needs time in the AHL to work on his intensity (looks better so far vs pre-season/ last season).

That bothered me too and it made it seem like they had already decided to start him in the AHL no matter what. Watching Hutton try to QB the PP instead of OJ was frustrating. I think OJ's passing ability is underrated.
 

sting101

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Was really disappointed Green didn't try him on the PP in the pre-season. He's probably our best "pro" PP d-man atm. He has excellent ability to set up one-timers (not pass into Boeser/Pettersson feet), and can actually hit the net - instead of legs - with his shots.

Still needs time in the AHL to work on his intensity (looks better so far vs pre-season/ last season).
i agree.
i think they had already decided what his plan was and didn't want media and public pressure to change their minds.
 

F A N

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Have any come out and said that this was a bad pick who has not progressed as we thought he should or said that this player has failed at expectations?

Are you expecting someone in management or a head coach to come out and say that a player was a bad pick who has failed expectations? I don't think you're being realistic here.

I have never heard an NHL coach come out and talk about a player being a bad draft pick. Something along the lines of a player being affected by draft expectations or telling the media or fans they need to adjust their expectations sure. Not improving in aspects that the coach wanted the player to improve sure. A head coach should not be commenting on whether a player is a good or bad draft pick since he's essentially throwing the scouting staff under the bus.

You'll also be hard pressed to find GMs or scouts calling one of their draft picks a bad pick who has failed expectations without any caveats like "at the time." You might get something down the line in a in hindsight discussion. If you're looking for strong language criticizing the pick you'll be hard pressed to get it. I remember Delorme commenting that he might have made a mistake not picking Perron when he first broke into the NHL in a "oops" sort of way.

Regardless, what good comes from a GM or anyone in the organization criticizing a player with harsh derisive language? If you're trying to light a fire under a prospect's ass I get it. But as an after the fact we made a mistake and he failed to meet our expectations he sucks kind of talk? Nah.
 
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xtra

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Are you expecting someone in management or a head coach to come out and say that a player was a bad pick who has failed expectations? I don't think you're being realistic here.

I have never heard an NHL coach come out and talk about a player being a bad draft pick. Something along the lines of a player being affected by draft expectations or telling the media or fans they need to adjust their expectations sure. Not improving in aspects that the coach wanted the player to improve sure. A head coach should not be commenting on whether a player is a good or bad draft pick since he's essentially throwing the scouting staff under the bus.

You'll also be hard pressed to find GMs or scouts calling one of their draft picks a bad pick who has failed expectations without any caveats like "at the time." You might get something down the line in a in hindsight discussion. If you're looking for strong language criticizing the pick you'll be hard pressed to get it. I remember Delorme commenting that he might have made a mistake not picking Perron when he first broke into the NHL in a "oops" sort of way.

Regardless, what good comes from a GM or anyone in the organization criticizing a player with harsh derisive language? If you're trying to light a fire under a prospect's ass I get it. But as an after the fact we made a mistake and he failed to meet our expectations he sucks kind of talk? Nah.


Of course not, even if Olli never becomes the #1 dman they thought he could be they won’t critizie him.

my point is that you can’t put much if any stock into an Canuck employee praising a player (we mostly agree hasn’t developed like a top 5 pick should) that is being derived in the market place as another bad move by the management.

I fully expect Johnson and benning to come out and say great things about Olli to make themselves and the pick look good because they look worse the worse he is seen.

On a side note that’s why I find it hard to think they will move the farm team here because of more people could get a first hand view of the prospects that are struggling they could refute the opinions of the management easier.

Example: kole lind is struggling a bit but cause he’s out of sight and out of mind the team and media can hype him up
 

GetFocht

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Jun 11, 2013
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Juolevi is showing why he was selected 5th overall, he is being groomed to be a top 4 defenceman and putting him out on all situations. I think Canucks are accelerating his development in case they trade Edler by the deadline.

on an unrelated note, by all means, we should never trade Tanev.
 
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y2kcanucks

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Aug 3, 2006
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Juolevi is showing why he was selected 5th overall, he is being groomed to be a top 4 defenceman and putting him out on all situations. I think Canucks are accelerating his development in case they trade Edler by the deadline.

on an unrelated note, by all means, we should never trade Tanev.

He is? I don't think he's played a game in the NHL so how exactly has he done this? He's in his Draft +3 season and still hasn't had a sniff at the NHL, meanwhile there are almost 20 other defensemen drafted the same year or after who have passed him. If he weren't playing at least reasonably well in the AHL this year you could write him off as a bust.
 

KingOfTheES

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Juolevi is showing why he was selected 5th overall, he is being groomed to be a top 4 defenceman and putting him out on all situations. I think Canucks are accelerating his development in case they trade Edler by the deadline.

on an unrelated note, by all means, we should never trade Tanev.

Naw, Joulevi is showing why he should have been a 2nd round pick.

Chychrun, Sergachev, Girard, McAvoy, Mete have all surpassed him as D in the same draft as of today. Lajoie, Cholowski, Hillman and Hronek all looking like they are further along too.
 
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y2kcanucks

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Aug 3, 2006
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Naw, Joulevi is showing why he should have been a 2nd round pick.

Chychrun, Sergachev, Girard, McAvoy, Mete have all surpassed him as D in the same draft as of today. Lajoie, Cholowski, Hillman and Hronek all looking like they are further along too.

Some people's expectations of a 5th overall pick in his D+3 season are extremely low.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Of course not, even if Olli never becomes the #1 dman they thought he could be they won’t critizie him.

my point is that you can’t put much if any stock into an Canuck employee praising a player (we mostly agree hasn’t developed like a top 5 pick should) that is being derived in the market place as another bad move by the management.

I fully expect Johnson and benning to come out and say great things about Olli to make themselves and the pick look good because they look worse the worse he is seen.

On a side note that’s why I find it hard to think they will move the farm team here because of more people could get a first hand view of the prospects that are struggling they could refute the opinions of the management easier.

Example: kole lind is struggling a bit but cause he’s out of sight and out of mind the team and media can hype him up
Do you seriously think that they do this much spinning so that the fans and media are not on their asses and they look good? You only have a pretty defined timetable for producing results.

I fail to see how Ryan Johnson praising Juolevi has anything to do with optics for job security either. There is no way in hiding it if he's not playing well after all and right now his measuring stick is the AHL so of course fans have to take it with a grain of salt. Also RJ doing that unnecessarily would lead to his reputation getting tarnished so maybe i'm naive but i just dont see it and its not like he's come out and said anything about his future NHL trajectory.

I think it's pretty telling if you read into the way criticism or praise gets heaped on players. Sometimes i feel its needed to push certain types and in this case we've seen that with Sami Salo. Criticism a lot of times is measured against the expectations. What a coach says vs a GM who should care more about asset value and cap returns also has to be measured. Bottom line is praise is good and criticism publicly is probably more for motivation.......silence would be the most concerning
 
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sting101

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Naw, Joulevi is showing why he should have been a 2nd round pick.

Chychrun, Sergachev, Girard, McAvoy, Mete have all surpassed him as D in the same draft as of today. Lajoie, Cholowski, Hillman and Hronek all looking like they are further along too.
the more important question is how many of those names you are throwing around would you rather have going forward.
 
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