Confirmed with Link: Oilers will be giving up third round pick in Lucic/Neal swap

[Drivesaitl]

The NHL being the NHL but I'm not going to bust blood vessels over this. I mean the important thing is we got rid of Lucic and his boat anchor contract. That needs to be seen in perspective. That and Neal is better player pretty much by default at this point.

The worst thing, always, was the Lucic contract and acquisition, said that from day 1. Him gone is sunny days all week, month, year. Let Lucic be somebody elses problem. Good luck motivating a Flames bench when that dull retiree is pulling in 6M and being nothing. In a capped league having cap spent elsewhere than lucic is win.

 

[Cloned]

The NHL being the NHL but I'm not going to bust blood vessels over this. I mean the important thing is we got rid of Lucic and his boat anchor contract. That needs to be seen in perspective. That and Neal is better player pretty much by default at this point.

The worst thing, always, was the Lucic contract and acquisition, said that from day 1. Him gone is sunny days all week, month, year. Let Lucic be somebody elses problem. Good luck motivating a Flames bench when that dull retiree is pulling in 6M and being nothing. In a capped league having cap spent elsewhere than lucic is win.

Also take into account that Lucic was rumoured to be a bad presence in the locker room in the last few years here. Addition by subtraction.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Hypothetically, what if Lucic scores 2 goals in 5 games in the play in round and Neal doesn't score any in 4 games? Lucic would have 10 goals through 75 Flames games prior to the playoffs starting, whereas Neal would have 19 goals through 75 Oilers games. Prorated that's 10.93 goals for Lucic over 82 Flames games and 20.77 goals for Neal over 82 Oilers games. Neal would not have 21 prorated goals and would not have at least 10 prorated goals more than Lucic.

Now I suppose the NHL could always say, well we're counting the play ins as playoff games or at least the points as playoff points so they can't be taken into account for prorating Neal and Lucic goals. That's a pretty thin argument though considering the whole point of the play in series' are to determine who gets into the playoffs. You already have a determination that the top 4 teams in the conferences are exempt from the play ins because of their points percentage and the next 8 teams have to win their play in series to make the playoffs. So very clearly the 8 teams are not yet in the playoffs. Now if they're non playoff games but they're games played prior to the playoffs, and the regular season was cut short but these play in games are being used to determine who's in the playoffs, given that the season being cut short was an unforeseen event when the trade was made shouldn't the play in games be counted for determining prorated goals as the most fair way to come close to the 82 games that were anticipated by both parties at the time of the trade?

I think the NHL would have difficulty making the decision to award Calgary the pick stick in court regardless of who scores in the play in series, but if Lucic scores a couple goals and Neal doesn't score then the NHL is on even worse footing with their decision given how they've defined the playoffs/play ins. Anyways, some food for thought if the Oilers do decide to make a fuss about this.

 

[29Beast97Mode]

Franchise Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Vancouver Exp:

This was as good of a trade as it could have been IMO. Neal is a lazy bum. Lucic may have lost his mojo, but I see him do things every game that Neal would never do. They don't always end up with points, but he has defensemen looking over their shoulders going to pick up the puck and causes turnovers that would never happen with Neal on the ice.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Meanwhile on calgarypuck

 

[mouser]

Hypothetically, what if Lucic scores 2 goals in 5 games in the play in round and Neal doesn't score any in 4 games? Lucic would have 10 goals through 75 Flames games prior to the playoffs starting, whereas Neal would have 19 goals through 75 Oilers games. Prorated that's 10.93 goals for Lucic over 82 Flames games and 20.77 goals for Neal over 82 Oilers games. Neal would not have 21 prorated goals and would not have at least 10 prorated goals more than Lucic.

Now I suppose the NHL could always say, well we're counting the play ins as playoff games or at least the points as playoff points so they can't be taken into account for prorating Neal and Lucic goals. That's a pretty thin argument though considering the whole point of the play in series' are to determine who gets into the playoffs. You already have a determination that the top 4 teams in the conferences are exempt from the play ins because of their points percentage and the next 8 teams have to win their play in series to make the playoffs. So very clearly the 8 teams are not yet in the playoffs. Now if they're non playoff games but they're games played prior to the playoffs, and the regular season was cut short but these play in games are being used to determine who's in the playoffs, given that the season being cut short was an unforeseen event when the trade was made shouldn't the play in games be counted for determining prorated goals as the most fair way to come close to the 82 games that were anticipated by both parties at the time of the trade?

I think the NHL would have difficulty making the decision to award Calgary the pick stick in court regardless of who scores in the play in series, but if Lucic scores a couple goals and Neal doesn't score then the NHL is on even worse footing with their decision given how they've defined the playoffs/play ins. Anyways, some food for thought if the Oilers do decide to make a fuss about this.

The league is in a quirky situation where the play-in games are not playoff games, nor regular season games. The NHL and PA strategically agreed to not resume the regular season and instead introduce the play-in games as a compromise for what could have been all or part of the regular season.

I don’t know if the right decision was made in this instance, but it makes sense that the league has to arbitrate some of the conditional clauses when redefining the types of games in the league schedule.

 

[Rusoilers]

Screw off Buttman

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

The league is in a quirky situation where the play-in games are not playoff games, nor regular season games. The NHL and PA strategically agreed to not resume the regular season and instead introduce the play-in games as a compromise for what could have been all or part of the regular season.

I don’t know if the right decision was made in this instance, but it makes sense that the league has to arbitrate some of the conditional clauses when redefining the types of games in the league schedule.

I hear you but it's a slippery slope considering the NHL doesn't prorate for players missing games due to injury or suspension. Now if the NHL were to do that then the pick to Calgary would be done because of games missed by Neal, but that's not the case so taking that step in this case is somewhat dubious.

 

[bellagiobob]

Waiting for word from the league that we owe Seattle a 1st for signing Tippett.

 

[Oilhawks]

Not sure if this was said already but Oilers should block access to Buttman and company to the arena in protest. I’m honestly not at all surprised that this happened, though.

 

[Asiaoil]

This is the reason they announced it today so the ridiculous premise that supports this decision would not get even worse. NHL is the single most "bush" league in business. A complete joke of a league.

Hypothetically, what if Lucic scores 2 goals in 5 games in the play in round and Neal doesn't score any in 4 games? Lucic would have 10 goals through 75 Flames games prior to the playoffs starting, whereas Neal would have 19 goals through 75 Oilers games. Prorated that's 10.93 goals for Lucic over 82 Flames games and 20.77 goals for Neal over 82 Oilers games. Neal would not have 21 prorated goals and would not have at least 10 prorated goals more than Lucic.HL is on even worse footing with their decision given how they've defined the playoffs/play ins. Anyways, some food for thought if the Oilers do decide to make a fuss about this.

 

[mouser]

I hear you but it's a slippery slope considering the NHL doesn't prorate for players missing games due to injury or suspension. Now if the NHL were to do that then the pick to Calgary would be done because of games missed by Neal, but that's not the case so taking that step in this case is somewhat dubious.

On an interesting semi-related note, in the new 2020 CBA the league is going to start pro-rating some benefits based on opportunity to play games. E.g. player is traded from a team with 28 GP to a team with 30 GP, the player will receive 2 games credit towards pension and other accrued benefits.

As far as I can tell the decision is essentially dealing with players (Neal and Lucic) missing NHL games for reasons other then injury, suspension, or team decision to scratch or loan them.

It’s a unique situation we won’t see again hopefully.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Don’t care. Doesn’t matter.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

This is how everyone on Calgary Puck is celebrating rn.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

This is how everyone on Calgary Puck is celebrating rn.
View attachment 356680

That guy has way more teeth and his pants aren’t on backwards. He’s from Nashville not Calgary. Get it right man.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

That guy has way more teeth and his pants aren’t on backwards. He’s from Nashville not Calgary. Get it right man.

 

[snipes]

So this means Ovi has 9 50 goals seasons?

He’s tied Bossy and Gretzky at 9, huge accomplishment.

 

[nabob]

What a joke, almost as big of a joke as the Flames franchise. Will be nice to see them destroyed by Winnipeg.

 

[subnet]

So this means Ovi has 9 50 goals seasons?

He’s tied Bossy and Gretzky at 9, huge accomplishment.

Sweet - so by the 'new NHL math', Leon has officially 127 points for the season (vs. 110), and Connor has an official 114 points (vs 97)! Yay pro-ration!

This is great - now everyone who has missed games due to illness/injury/family/vasectomy/etc. will be pro-rated for their actual vs 'real' points. Go NHL!!!

 

[snipes]

The league is in a quirky situation where the play-in games are not playoff games, nor regular season games. The NHL and PA strategically agreed to not resume the regular season and instead introduce the play-in games as a compromise for what could have been all or part of the regular season.

I don’t know if the right decision was made in this instance, but it makes sense that the league has to arbitrate some of the conditional clauses when redefining the types of games in the league schedule.

This absolutely should go to arbitration if that’s the appellate option.

How can the NHL enforce such an ambiguous interpretation of condition precedents that didn’t occur? I don’t see any competent appellate avenue allowing that to stand.

Without using a crystal ball how does the condition precedent be met that Neal scores 21+ goals and Lucic isn’t within 10? That’s not how contract law works which I’m sure you’re aware of. There is no certainty of either of those condition precedents being met that would trigger the 3rd round pick exchanged.

In my experience, that would never hold up in court on any form of contract interpretation or valid enforcement of said clauses.

 

[subnet]

This absolutely should go to arbitration if that’s the appellate option.

How can the NHL enforce such an ambiguous interpretation of condition precedents that didn’t occur? I don’t see any competent appellate avenue allowing that to stand.

Without using a crystal ball how does the condition precedent be met that Neal scores 21+ goals and Lucic isn’t within 10? That’s not how contract law works which I’m sure you’re aware of. There is no certainty of either of those condition precedents being met that would trigger the 3rd round pick exchanged.

In my experience, that would never hold up in court on any form of contract interpretation or valid enforcement of said clauses.

Hey @Fourier - you math guys can probably do this better than me

We need to figure out the curve for Neal, vs points, vs games, and when he'd hit his magic number, vs. Lucic, and his late-season ramp up, to really see what conditions are met. I don't have SPSS or any other stat packages on my current PC so I bow down to you guys Oh, and I've had friends over and may have partaken in a few beverages so I am not the best at stats at the moment lol.

 

[snipes]

Sweet - so by the 'new NHL math', Leon has officially 127 points for the season (vs. 110), and Connor has an official 114 points (vs 97)! Yay pro-ration!

This is great - now everyone who has missed games due to illness/injury/family/vasectomy/etc. will be pro-rated for their actual vs 'real' points. Go NHL!!!

Props to McDavid on his 4th straight 100 point season as well. Heck of an accomplishment.

 

[snipes]

Hey @Fourier - you math guys can probably do this better than me

We need to figure out the curve for Neal, vs points, vs games, and when he'd hit his magic number, vs. Lucic, and his late-season ramp up, to really see what conditions are met. I don't have SPSS or any other stat packages on my current PC so I bow down to you guys Oh, and I've had friends over and may have partaken in a few beverages so I am not the best at stats at the moment lol.

Work in the fact that Neal was injured as well when the lockdown occurred.

This type of occult mystic crystal ball reading is how we roll in interpreting objective clauses that are to be met in contracts. Never mind the actual clear unequivocal language, those are just words on paper right?

 

[subnet]

Work in the fact that Neal was injured as well when the lockdown occurred.

This type of occult mystic crystal ball reading is how we roll in interpreting objective clauses that are to be met in contracts. Never mind the actual clear unequivocal language, those are just words on paper right?

Well, why would the NHL use actual numbers, instead of made-up stats? Mind boggling

 

[bellagiobob]

Mike Smith knocked Talbot silly three times this year. Gaudreau shook his wrist 1,142 times, and Petterson dove 1,925 times. And 7 planes landed at Winnipeg’s airport.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

What a joke, almost as big of a joke as the Flames franchise. Will be nice to see them destroyed by Winnipeg.

Somehow the odds makers have Calgary as the favorites to win the series.

The Jets have better offense, better goaltending and better/more experienced coaching. The two teams' defenses are pretty much equal. I hope the Jets embarrass them, much like Colorado did last spring.