Confirmed with Link: Oiler sign Dominik Kahun 1-year/ 975k

Zaddy

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I’m not even sure why he was ranked as high as he was in his draft year. He skates well but his hockey sense is severely lacking.

Think he just went pro too early. He was a legit prospect. I was a big fan of him in his pre-draft year, but he rushed to college and then rushed to the NHL. Could've definitely used more time to develop his game. He was actually seen as someone who had excellent hockey sense, but that hasn't been visible in the NHL.
 
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North

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Think he just went pro too early. He was a legit prospect. I was a big fan of him in his pre-draft year, but he rushed to college and then rushed to the NHL. Could've definitely used more time to develop his game. He was actually seen as someone who had excellent hockey sense, but that hasn't been visible in the NHL.

He just can’t seem to catch up to the speed of the game (thinking wise).
 

Zaddy

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He just can’t seem to catch up to the speed of the game (thinking wise).

Yeah I've been really disappointed in him. Every time I watch him he makes some really bad plays. It's easy to see why he's a minus player every year, even in Carolina where he played some really sheltered minutes. The guy is lucky he got paid. If he hadn't been a top prospect he'd probably be out of the league by now, or at least nothing more than a regular 3rd pairing guy.
 
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Draiskull

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Yeah I've been really disappointed in him. Every time I watch him he makes some really bad plays. It's easy to see why he's a minus player every year, even in Carolina where he played some really sheltered minutes. The guy is lucky he got paid. If he hadn't been a top prospect he'd probably be out of the league by now, or at least nothing more than a regular 3rd pairing guy.
Well we are lucky we won the McLotto because Hanifin would most likely have been our first pick in 2015 had we not won it.
 

Drivesaitl

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Yeah I've been really disappointed in him. Every time I watch him he makes some really bad plays. It's easy to see why he's a minus player every year, even in Carolina where he played some really sheltered minutes. The guy is lucky he got paid. If he hadn't been a top prospect he'd probably be out of the league by now, or at least nothing more than a regular 3rd pairing guy.

I've looked back two pages and trying to figure out who you are both talking about. Not Kahun, right?
 
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GretzkytoKurri9917

"LIVE LONG AND PROSPER"
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Think he just went pro too early. He was a legit prospect. I was a big fan of him in his pre-draft year, but he rushed to college and then rushed to the NHL. Could've definitely used more time to develop his game. He was actually seen as someone who had excellent hockey sense, but that hasn't been visible in the NHL.


Bang on.



Hockey sense listed as a strength going into the 2015 NHL Entry Draft.
 

Drivesaitl

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Noah-body Hanafin

Thanks, perhaps because I'm not seeing all the posts its hard to follow sometimes. Why we even bothering to pollute our thread on Kahun by talking about a Flame? That just makes me feel dirty inside..

ps, now that I'm engaged in the convo is there any more vacuous scouting comment of a hockey player than that he has "excellent hockey sense"?

I mean talk about a subjective term. Scouts seem full of these. Its like teachers saying buttery words on a report card that the child "has excellent school sense". I mean, yeah, that like provides zero information for any parent..

What would be a head scratching moment on a report card should be on a scouting report as well. Scouting reports are so full of subjective bias. Dexcriptions like that are non information.
 
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Zaddy

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Thanks, perhaps because I'm not seeing all the posts its hard to follow sometimes. Why we even bothering to pollute our thread on Kahun by talking about a Flame? That just makes me feel dirty inside..

It's called boredom, I think you're quite familiar with it ;)

ps, now that I'm engaged in the convo is there any more vacuous scouting comment of a hockey player than that he has "excellent hockey sense"?

I mean talk about a subjective term. Scouts seem full of these. Its like teachers saying buttery words on a report card that the child "has excellent school sense". I mean, yeah, that like provides zero information for any parent..

What would be a head scratching moment on a report card should be on a scouting report as well. Scouting reports are so full of subjective bias. Dexcriptions like that are non information.

Disagree. Hockey sense is arguably the most important trait in a prospect, and the one that is the best predictor for how well a player can adapt to the NHL. It's not just an empty term, if you know what you're doing as a scout it's actually rather obvious most of the time how well a player processes the game. And it's usually not something that can be taught or improved upon much.

I think what you might be getting at however is that there is not really a standard definition on what hockey sense is or constitutes and that everyone sees it a bit differently, and also that it is a rather over-used term by pundits. A guy like Craig Button will basically call anyone he likes as someone who has excellent hockey sense, regardless if that's true or not.
 

Drivesaitl

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It's called boredom, I think you're quite familiar with it ;)



Disagree. Hockey sense is arguably the most important trait in a prospect, and the one that is the best predictor for how well a player can adapt to the NHL. It's not just an empty term, if you know what you're doing as a scout it's actually rather obvious most of the time how well a player processes the game. And it's usually not something that can be taught or improved upon much.

I think what you might be getting at however is that there is not really a standard definition on what hockey sense is or constitutes and that everyone sees it a bit differently, and also that it is a rather over-used term by pundits. A guy like Craig Button will basically call anyone he likes as someone who has excellent hockey sense, regardless if that's true or not.

"hockey sense" in itself, is a completely subjective term, and scouting reports are generally loaded with these. For sure what I'm getting at is that the nebulous term is not standardized, quantified, generally explained in any way.

I think better terms would be how the player "processes" the game as you say or how the player anticipates, follows system play, reads ice, etc. I want the terms to be more analytical, and more meaningful. Its lazy for scouts to be using such subjective terms. Considering that its their job to describe, differentiate, and define player play.

But I'll ad another D here, and that its that most hockey scouts are long on hockey, and short on dictum. Which is a seeming deficiency in their dictionary. More D's. heh

But it drives me nuts when people are paid to write scouting reports and they can barely express themselves in detail.

ps yes, I'm familiar with boredom or I wouldnt denote all this.;)

so my post gets a D!
 
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Zaddy

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"hockey sense" in itself, is a completely subjective term, and scouting reports are generally loaded with these. For sure what I'm getting at is that the nebulous term is not standardized, quantified, generally explained in any way.

I think better terms would be how the player "processes" the game as you say or how the player anticipates, follows system play, reads ice, etc. I want the terms to be more analytical, and more meaningful. Its lazy for scouts to be using such subjective terms. Considering that its their job to describe, differentiate, and define player play.

But I'll ad another D here, and that its that most hockey scouts are long on hockey, and short on dictum. Which is a seeming deficiency in their dictionary. More D's. heh

But it drives me nuts when people are paid to write scouting reports and they can barely express themselves in detail.

ps yes, I'm familiar with boredom or I wouldnt denote all this.;)

so my post gets a D!

Well said. Very few scouts are eloquent and generally just throw around a bunch of buzz words when describing a player. Even a lot of NHL executives tend to do the same. Few go into detail. However there have been some progress towards this recently and there are some scouts that are very good at describing a players game into detail. Both HockeyProspect and a couple of guys over at EliteProspects do it these days, which is nice to see. It's slowly starting to evolve but I think in general hockey is behind other major sports when it comes to stuff like this. Not really sure why either.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Well said. Very few scouts are eloquent and generally just throw around a bunch of buzz words when describing a player. Even a lot of NHL executives tend to do the same. Few go into detail. However there have been some progress towards this recently and there are some scouts that are very good at describing a players game into detail. Both HockeyProspect and a couple of guys over at EliteProspects do it these days, which is nice to see. It's slowly starting to evolve but I think in general hockey is behind other major sports when it comes to stuff like this. Not really sure why either.
Thank you. I don't have my like button anymore, heh.
 
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Oilhawks

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honestly though I'm not sold Calgary is any better now than they were last year. Markstrom is a really good goalie, but Talbot played very well. Brodie for Tanev is a big fat L. Giordano is another year older and slower.

I'm not sold that they are any better either. I maintain that goaltending has been a convenient scapegoat for the Flames for years.

Talbot was as good as Markstrom last year IMO (or at least very close). Tanev is overrated and made of glass.

IMO their offseason wasn't much better than the Canucks'
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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Well said. Very few scouts are eloquent and generally just throw around a bunch of buzz words when describing a player. Even a lot of NHL executives tend to do the same. Few go into detail. However there have been some progress towards this recently and there are some scouts that are very good at describing a players game into detail. Both HockeyProspect and a couple of guys over at EliteProspects do it these days, which is nice to see. It's slowly starting to evolve but I think in general hockey is behind other major sports when it comes to stuff like this. Not really sure why either.

I think you really underestimate the sophistication of NHL scouts versus media/fan sources like Hockey Prospect. Mark Edwards has a solid history as a club midget coach and has borrowed his rating 'system' from the Winnipeg Jets (3-9 scale, 3 is poor and 9 is elite). His categories and priorities are also not necessarily unique either as he ranks in order of importance: Compete, Skill, Skating, Physical. Edwards to his credit includes NHL scout opinions on players to augment his own assessments. They are solid in Ontario and Quebec with people able to live view. I enjoy reading RedLine Report with Kyle Woodlief whose worked on an NHL scouting staff.

NHL teams and their paid scouting staff consider their scouting information as proprietary knowledge gleaned through thousands of direct viewings of players, intel from coaches, players and family members. Their priority is to selfishly inform their million dollar decision making to make their teams better - it is not to give interviews or pithy soundbites to outsiders (fans, media etc.) Fanzine draft guides are fun, provide some good fodder beyond the snapshot most fans can access, and generally have a highly variable quality of eyes accessing projects with limited direct viewing opportunities as one might expect with highly limited resources (financial, human, scale, access).

As far as data samples, Central Scouting staff see thousands of live viewing games each year which divvies out to hundreds per staffer and multiply that over multiple years and the sheer volume of live sightings is substantively beyond all fan draft services. Similarly NHL scouts have a massive volume of live viewings each and every year. An interesting to look at this function: On road with NHL Central Scouting

You don't seem to respect Craig Button whose seen more prospects than you or I will over several lifetimes. He's now a conduit through his TSN employment to bridge the gap between the hard miles that professional scouts put in and our limited access to projecting teenagers. His father set up NHL Central Scouting and early efforts to create a consistent approach to categorize prospects that span the globe. He's in the edutainment business now but the guy's put in the work at all levels of professional scouting and management.

Button's own thoughts on hockey sense? And again, back to the data, this is an attribute that become clearer with the high volume of games viewed by qualified eyes and brains who get paid to make million decisions.

“The prospects that you are really trying to assess are the players that can see what is unfolding really quickly. Then being able to translate it quickly from their head to their hands and make the play—you can call that hockey sense.”

“Without good hockey sense or awareness, your other skills don’t matter, and that’s why so many players that can skate and have elements of skill do not succeed. It’s not because they don’t have the skill, it’s because they don’t have the intelligence.”
 

K1984

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I'm not sold that they are any better either. I maintain that goaltending has been a convenient scapegoat for the Flames for years.

Talbot was as good as Markstrom last year IMO (or at least very close). Tanev is overrated and made of glass.

IMO their offseason wasn't much better than the Canucks'

"Big Save Dave" was in the All-Star game and was getting accolades about how great he was. Then the Oilers lit his tits on fire and he carried an .870 sv% there after. They only really had a goaltending problem for about a week or two before the COVID delay and then in their final playoff game. Not really a concern before that.

On another note - how great would it be if the Oilers ended up putting an end to "Big Save Dave's" NHL career by sending him into a rut he can't get out of on the heels of the 8-3 shit kicking?
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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I think Kahun is a solid depth signing at covid cap pricing. The Oil will have more flexibility to move players around in its top six and I could see Kahun and Ennis moving around on lines based on whose running hot. I could also see Turris getting moved at times into wing position with his right hand shooter mentality complementing McDavid and Draisaitl. I actually think this team, as configured, will benefit by keeping Chiasson and Khaira to add some size to a forward roster that is deeper but smaller and more finesse based.

Holland has done a great job bringing depth to a shallow line up on the very limited cap space inherited. Klefbom's loss is a potentially huge hole and I think goaltending is ok, not great, so we'll have to see if this newly configured lineup can play hard at both ends of the ice.
 
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McIce Whole

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honestly though I'm not sold Calgary is any better now than they were last year. Markstrom is a really good goalie, but Talbot played very well. Brodie for Tanev is a big fat L. Giordano is another year older and slower.

Agreed. Markstrom will steal games for them so they should be about the same but I don’t have much faith in the Flames being a better team. Their defence is worse and the changes up front are minimal.
 

Oilhawks

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"Big Save Dave" was in the All-Star game and was getting accolades about how great he was. Then the Oilers lit his tits on fire and he carried an .870 sv% there after. They only really had a goaltending problem for about a week or two before the COVID delay and then in their final playoff game. Not really a concern before that.

On another note - how great would it be if the Oilers ended up putting an end to "Big Save Dave's" NHL career by sending him into a rut he can't get out of on the heels of the 8-3 shit kicking?

I was thinking about that sequence of events and subsequent dip in BSD's career after "the stick toss" as I typed that. It's interesting how that's all it took for the Flames to move on from Talbot and go all in on Markstrom.

And to the bolded...yes please :thumbu::laugh:
 

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