Speculation: Offseason Roster Building Thread 3 - No draft trades? We're all gonna die

Status
Not open for further replies.

geehaad

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2006
7,514
18,885
Are you kidding?

Sorry, didn't mean to use words that made it sound like I was being sarcastic. Yes, paying Pesce $4M straight off of his ELC for 8 years seems like it's too high. Yes, paying Hanifin $3M next year seems too high. Slavin...maybe there's an argument there, but I'm not sure that he gets more more than these guys:

Klefbom - 7 years @ $4.167m
Larsson - 6 years @ $4.167m
Klingberg - 7 years @ $4.25m
Tanev - 5 years @ $4.45m
 

AD Skinner

Registered User
Mar 18, 2009
12,993
39,454
bubble bath
What if the entire holdup on the Duchene trade is Jaccob Slavin?

I mean, he checks off every single box for what Sakic wants and a few more that are just a bonus. He's an up-and-coming Norris candidate LD, he's from Denver, an alum of Colorado College, on his entry-level deal, and the kind of guy you can build a defense around. Sakic knows this is his only chance to get him before he's locked up for a long time in Carolina. He knows the Canes have spent their past three first-round picks on LDs (and that doesn't even include Slavin) and they will eventually have to move one. And he knows the Canes are desperate for offense and overloaded on D. So he's playing a game of chicken with GMRF over Slavin.

I'm just trying to sort it all out from Sakic's point of view. I know -- well, we're all pretty sure -- RF won't include Slavin in a deal for Duchene, but Sakic can afford to wait. Despite the uncomfortable nature of the rumors, we don't start playing for points for three months. He could be counting on the Canes coming to training camp and realizing, once everyone gets on the ice, that they are top-heavy with D and need to make a move.

Again, I don't think it will happen, but I'm trying to think of a reason something hasn't happened yet. So, what would COL have to add to Duchene for us to give them Slavin? And please don't say Tyson Jost. Not funny.

If that's the case, I think Francis says forget it. I wouldn't move Slavin for anyone outside of McDavid/Matthews/that type of player. Slavin is everything the Hurricanes want out of their players and will probably be named captain in 3-5 years- Duchene is a good player and the exact type of piece we need but if anyone is untouchable at this point I think it's Slavin.
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,413
39,656
I'd be very wary of locking multiple guys up to 8 year contracts. Even at good numbers. Those contracts can get ugly in a hurry with any regression or injury concerns.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,420
49,379
Winston-Salem NC
What if the entire holdup on the Duchene trade is Jaccob Slavin?

I mean, he checks off every single box for what Sakic wants and a few more that are just a bonus. He's an up-and-coming Norris candidate LD, he's from Denver, an alum of Colorado College, on his entry-level deal, and the kind of guy you can build a defense around. Sakic knows this is his only chance to get him before he's locked up for a long time in Carolina. He knows the Canes have spent their past three first-round picks on LDs (and that doesn't even include Slavin) and they will eventually have to move one. And he knows the Canes are desperate for offense and overloaded on D. So he's playing a game of chicken with GMRF over Slavin.

I'm just trying to sort it all out from Sakic's point of view. I know -- well, we're all pretty sure -- RF won't include Slavin in a deal for Duchene, but Sakic can afford to wait. Despite the uncomfortable nature of the rumors, we don't start playing for points for three months. He could be counting on the Canes coming to training camp and realizing, once everyone gets on the ice, that they are top-heavy with D and need to make a move.

Again, I don't think it will happen, but I'm trying to think of a reason something hasn't happened yet. So, what would COL have to add to Duchene for us to give them Slavin? And please don't say Tyson Jost. Not funny.

If they want Slavin they'd have to take out Duchene and replace him with MacKinnon. And even then they still have to add.
 

Svechhammer

THIS is hockey?
Jun 8, 2017
24,284
89,226
What if the entire holdup on the Duchene trade is Jaccob Slavin?

You hang up the phone before Sakic finishes saying Slavin's name.

If that's the kind of price he wants, he can enjoy keeping a disgruntled Duchene around who he's already publicly said he hopes to trade. And if he's able to get that kind of price elsewhere, you just shake your head at the GM willing to pay it.
 

My Special Purpose

Registered User
Apr 8, 2008
8,151
21,787
Then Sakic can go jump off a bridge. No GM in the league would make that trade.

If that's the case, I think Francis says forget it. I wouldn't move Slavin for anyone outside of McDavid/Matthews/that type of player. Slavin is everything the Hurricanes want out of their players and will probably be named captain in 3-5 years- Duchene is a good player and the exact type of piece we need but if anyone is untouchable at this point I think it's Slavin.

If they want Slavin they'd have to take out Duchene and replace him with MacKinnon. And even then they still have to add.

You hang up the phone before Sakic finishes saying Slavin's name.

If that's the kind of price he wants, he can enjoy keeping a disgruntled Duchene around who he's already publicly said he hopes to trade. And if he's able to get that kind of price elsewhere, you just shake your head at the GM willing to pay it.

I wasn't advocating a Slavin deal. I was just wondering aloud if you guys think there could be merit to the idea that Sakic covets Slavin in a way that is holding up other reasonable deals. (And it goes without saying I think you guys are overrating Slavin, but that's not my point.)
 

Chrispy

Salakuljettaja's Blues
Feb 25, 2009
8,438
27,242
Cary, NC
If they want Slavin they'd have to take out Duchene and replace him with MacKinnon. And even then they still have to add.

Agreed. I'd be willing to talk deal around Slavin and MacKinnon. Not Duchene.

If Sakic's price for Duchene is "Hanifin + prospect + pick" as rumored it's time to walk away.
 

Cardiac Jerks

Asinine & immoral
Jan 13, 2006
23,434
40,222
Long Sault, Ontario
Agreed. I'd be willing to talk deal around Slavin and MacKinnon. Not Duchene.

If Sakic's price for Duchene is "Hanifin + prospect + pick" as rumored it's time to walk away.

It's time to walk away while flipping him the bird and telling him what an idiot he is if that's truly what he's asking for.
 

WreckingCrew

Registered User
Feb 4, 2015
12,632
38,875
Sorry, didn't mean to use words that made it sound like I was being sarcastic. Yes, paying Pesce $4M straight off of his ELC for 8 years seems like it's too high. Yes, paying Hanifin $3M next year seems too high. Slavin...maybe there's an argument there, but I'm not sure that he gets more more than these guys:

Klefbom - 7 years @ $4.167m
Larsson - 6 years @ $4.167m
Klingberg - 7 years @ $4.25m
Tanev - 5 years @ $4.45m
Ah, fair enough...sorry if I misinterpreted as well, reading text doesn't always translate as well without intonation. I agree about Pesce, I think he'd probably get closer to $3.5-4M for 4-5 years...not sure you swing for 8 yet on him. Slavin at $5M for 8 years I'm fine with...I think he's easily better than those guys (though Klingberg for his production is a bit of a steal) Agree with Hanifin too, I see a $2.5-3M bridge deal.
 

raynman

Registered User
Jan 20, 2013
4,986
10,952
I wasn't advocating a Slavin deal. I was just wondering aloud if you guys think there could be merit to the idea that Sakic covets Slavin in a way that is holding up other reasonable deals. (And it goes without saying I think you guys are overrating Slavin, but that's not my point.)

Why do you think Slavin is overrated around here?
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,420
49,379
Winston-Salem NC
I wasn't advocating a Slavin deal. I was just wondering aloud if you guys think there could be merit to the idea that Sakic covets Slavin in a way that is holding up other reasonable deals. (And it goes without saying I think you guys are overrating Slavin, but that's not my point.)

Possibly, but frankly if Slavin was the target we would have long since walked away from the table and it flat out would have come out that we were not in talks around Duchene. I think even Sakic realizes there's no way to get Slavin with Duchene being the centerpiece of the trade, which is why the talk had been around Hanifin. As much as Hanifin's a blue chip piece he's still a work in progress in many regards.

And I'd argue as much as you think we may be overrating him is as much as you underrate Slavin ;)
 
Jun 21, 2016
7,216
29,654
Latvia
Why is it not Williams contract? Between that and let's say Duchene that's a massive add to our payroll (for us) when you consider next year. Hanifin, Slavin, Pesce all between 3-6 mill a season, at least 1.5 for TVR. Lindy in the 4-6 range depending on this year, plus Nordy. Ten million? More? Plus another 11 for Williams and I presume Duchene. That's PK opening the purse for the right player. I pretty sincerely believe that Williams was the "right player" that RF was referring to, because it involved a lot of money for an older player. I also think he fills the "20 goal scorer on the wing" slot that RF said was gonna get filled.

That leaves the approx 6 mill, if you believe Duchene was the target. Maybe it was Johnson? He will make similar. I don't think RF will spend this on a winger unless he thinks he can't get a center until next year and the unknown winger he gets will be gone next year. He won't get another 6 mill on top of that for a center, and he feels pretty strongly we need one. So are we acquiring Neal or JVR for one season? Nonsensical. We are highly unlikely to resign them unless we're giving up the notion that we need another top 6 center. I don't think that's "too negative". I think it's realistic given what RF said he wanted and given the history of the team. Of course I could be wrong. I hope I am.
Thing is I dont think there is a deal for #1 Center for us, if we are not giving up some of our D guys, and I dont think we need to. So looking so far what we have done, there was no need to make any comments like he did about money, if we are under the cap after signing Williams. So another signing who is winger could happen. (Vanek, Jokinen etc)

I think Turbo last year looked okey as C so we could give him #3C this year if there is no trade for #1-2 C from us.

I dont know who the target is now- we know that Duchene is available, but I would say there is 10% chance that we are trading for him. I think if we were in talks for Johansson it would make sense for us a bit, because he can play C and on the wing, and for that price we needed to be at least in discussion, but probably Caps didnt want to trade him to a team like ours, because we are challenging for playoffs this year.

As for our RFA signings - I think there will not be problems with them yet. Look at our cap situation, and like someone already said there is money coming off, and we could easily afford all of them even on full contracts.


I think we should give bridge to Hanifin and for Pesce and Slavin 5-6 year deals. 8 years is a bit much IMO.
 

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
Sponsor
Dec 14, 2015
20,982
81,029
Durm
What if the entire holdup on the Duchene trade is Jaccob Slavin?

I mean, he checks off every single box for what Sakic wants and a few more that are just a bonus. He's an up-and-coming Norris candidate LD, he's from Denver, an alum of Colorado College, on his entry-level deal, and the kind of guy you can build a defense around. Sakic knows this is his only chance to get him before he's locked up for a long time in Carolina. He knows the Canes have spent their past three first-round picks on LDs (and that doesn't even include Slavin) and they will eventually have to move one. And he knows the Canes are desperate for offense and overloaded on D. So he's playing a game of chicken with GMRF over Slavin.

I'm just trying to sort it all out from Sakic's point of view. I know -- well, we're all pretty sure -- RF won't include Slavin in a deal for Duchene, but Sakic can afford to wait. Despite the uncomfortable nature of the rumors, we don't start playing for points for three months. He could be counting on the Canes coming to training camp and realizing, once everyone gets on the ice, that they are top-heavy with D and need to make a move.

Again, I don't think it will happen, but I'm trying to think of a reason something hasn't happened yet. So, what would COL have to add to Duchene for us to give them Slavin? And please don't say Tyson Jost. Not funny.

When Noah goes to sleep, he dreams of being Jaccob. If Ron trades Slavin for Duchene, he should be fired. Slavin and his wife have already made Raleigh their home full time, he is trending to being elite defensively, and his offense is good and getting better. Ron needs to lock him up for eight at the lowest AAV he can that allows him to sleep at night.
 
Last edited:

Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
15,670
37,924
Pretty simple if we traded Slavin Hanifin would be our 1st pair LD...he's obviously not there yet.....

Hanifin - Pesce
Fleury - Faulk
??? - TVR
 

My Special Purpose

Registered User
Apr 8, 2008
8,151
21,787
I wouldn't move Slavin for anyone outside of McDavid/Matthews/that type of player.

Why do you think Slavin is overrated around here?

See above.

Because being a negative contrarian is his shtick.

There's nothing "negative" about pointing out that we may be overrating our guys. I have a lot of respect for what's going on, but to think Slavin is any better than, say, Hampus Lindholm, is just silly. He's a very good player, and a very good person, and we're lucky to have him. But I'd at least consider guys like Filip Forsberg, Johnny Gaudreau or Mark Schliefle in trade for him.
 

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
Sponsor
Dec 14, 2015
20,982
81,029
Durm
And just to add on to my previous point, if we can get Jaccob to trade term for cap, we do that. One of the reasons Chicago has been able to be so successful is they locked up Keith at a very low rate. If we can do that with Slavin for eight years, we do it. I'd do six for Pesce and bridge Noah since we have Fleury waiting in the wings that could equal Noah's current second pairing performance.
 

Anton Babchuk

Registered User
Nov 3, 2005
12,913
2,438
Raleigh-Durham
twitter.com
Sorry, didn't mean to use words that made it sound like I was being sarcastic. Yes, paying Pesce $4M straight off of his ELC for 8 years seems like it's too high. Yes, paying Hanifin $3M next year seems too high. Slavin...maybe there's an argument there, but I'm not sure that he gets more more than these guys:

Klefbom - 7 years @ $4.167m
Larsson - 6 years @ $4.167m
Klingberg - 7 years @ $4.25m
Tanev - 5 years @ $4.45m
Klingberg and Klefbom had played 65 and 77 NHL games, respectively, when they signed those deals. They had one NHL season each, got offered huge deals and took them. They didn't have the history to get more at that point. If those guys had 3 good seasons like Slavin could reasonably have after this year there's no way they sign those contracts. If Slavin was an RFA now and had one season under his belt then I could see him taking a deal like that, but he's not.

Connor Murphy got six years at $3.85M. Connor Murphy. You think Slavin is going to be capped in the lower 4s? Pesce can't even get 4?

Larsson and Tanev are both guys who took some time to be more than bottom pairing guys. Teams are willing to pay for "potential" for guys who are great right away. When you take five or six pro years to become a Top 4 teams start thinking you don't have an amazing upside and want to pay you for what you are. Tanev took two one-year deals after his ELC, Larsson one one-year.
 

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,274
North Carolina
Visit site
I wasn't advocating a Slavin deal. I was just wondering aloud if you guys think there could be merit to the idea that Sakic covets Slavin in a way that is holding up other reasonable deals. (And it goes without saying I think you guys are overrating Slavin, but that's not my point.)

I feel compelled to interject here regarding Slavin. Usually, advocating a brake pump on runaway hype is the safe play and I totally understand that. But with Slavin, he's tracking a lot like Duncan Keith if not a bit ahead of his curve. There is a very, very likely probability we're dealing with a player here that is going to at least be in the conversation for Norris voting consideration if this team starts to trend back into the playoff bound direction. Exposure in Carolina is one of the few things that have kept him a secret around the league to this point and even that is rapidly changing. I have rarely in my time being a fan of this team seen opposing teams watch us for the first time and sincerely gush about one of our players the way people do with Slavin. After one game of exposure, no less. For a player that is primarily considered a defensive defenseman, that's even more exceedingly rare.

If you attempt to look at comparable players who have been traded while showing this kind of upside, the examples are few. Seth Jones is one of the only names that comes to mind and he was swapped in a really unique circumstance for a player that was unquestionably a franchise center that was malcontent in his current location. That is *not* Matt Duchene. It was maybe Matt Duchene 4 years ago, but it's not Matt Duchene today. And that would be assuming that Seth Jones' value is more approximate to Slavin's, and it's not. I think Noah Hanifin's value is more approximate to Seth Jones' at the time but that's beside the point.

What we have in Slavin is a player that is right now, presently, a Top 30 defenseman in the league. And the probability of him getting even better is laid out in front of him depending upon how much he wants it. The fact that there are zero concerns about his character or falling into the professional lifestyle makes it just an absolute no brain decision that you can't part with this player. He's literally a choir boy. He's already settled down, and he's painfully boring in the offseason. I won't go into the role his faith plays because that's a bit touchy, but he seems to have hockey prioritized on his list higher than most his age due to minimal distractions. I think that pairs well with his natural talent and the probability he reaches the level of play that many of us ultimately believe he can.

One of the things that's cool about being active in online communities about things you like is that your personal opinions can be balanced against what other people are seeing and observing about particular players. For example, I see nothing in Warren Foegele that suggests to me that he's a prospect. I feel like he is a dime a dozen type player that found himself in the CHL at an advanced age and tricked a lot of people into believing he has some upside. However, the fact that there are SO many people on these boards that believe otherwise, I have had to come to terms with the fact that my opinion might be on the extreme end of the spectrum and the probability that I am wrong might be worth reviewing considering that the vast majority of this board considers him a Top 10 if not Top 5 prospect for us with a chance of perhaps cracking the NHL roster this season. When the gulf between your opinion and the collective varies to such a wide degree, your stance is polarized to either everyone else is dumb and you're the only one that sees objectively or that perhaps you're on the extreme end of this issue and it might be worth making allowances for that. I think you're pretty firmly underrating Slavin, but if you're comfortable with the extremity of that opinion then that's totally fine obviously. But I wouldn't expect to create many converts when the visual evidence and historical projections are working so defiantly against you. Much less for a talent evaluator like Ron Francis to hock him for 2 years of Matt Duchene.
 

bleedgreen

Registered User
Dec 8, 2003
24,194
39,867
colorado
Visit site
I wouldn't trade Slavin for Mack if it ever came to it. I don't really want Mack much more than Duchene. I'm not sure if Mack will ever figure it out. Like him, don't love him. Wouldn't give up the farm for him right now.

I just wouldn't trade any of the four yet. There's no replacement for the top 4. Value could easily be there in a trade, but it would leave hole we can't have.
 

Finlandia WOAT

js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
May 23, 2010
24,218
23,953
I think it bears repeating before it gets burried under an avalanche (pun unintended): Kev was speculating about Sakic's end game here, not that Francis should trade our franchise defenseman for 2 years of Duchene.
 

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,274
North Carolina
Visit site
I think it bears repeating before it gets burried under an avalanche (pun unintended): Kev was speculating about Sakic's end game here, not that Francis should trade our franchise defenseman for 2 years of Duchene.

The insinuation is practically the same. It would be like saying we're not trading Hanifin because perhaps Francis is holding out for Jack Eichel. Somewhere in that equation, there's a disconnect to reality.
 

AD Skinner

Registered User
Mar 18, 2009
12,993
39,454
bubble bath
What I think is so special about Slavin is that he is so successful based on his brains- he isn't really any stronger or faster than average NHL standards but he is very very good at knowing where to position his body and stick in close and very good at knowing where his teammates are/are going to be. Maybe that's just being very coachable and/or a great fit for Peters' system, but it makes him super valuable to the Hurricanes (not to mention that he and Pesce have chemistry like peanut butter and jelly). His style should age well and only being 23 he will probably get better before he starts to decline.

Just my opinion of course but I really think Slavin is a complete gem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad