[Official] Fire/Tolerate Travis Green Thread

[Grub]

If a new GM comes in lets hope Green goes with the rest of the garbage.

 

[me2]

10 future NHLers? I have to cringe at that comment...

16 players were drafted by NHL teams
16 players went on to play professional AHL/NHL games, 1 to the KHL
10 played NHL games

 

[Addison Rae]

I don’t hate Green, hisbplayer development is bad but in theory seems like a decent coach.

We got much bigger problems than him.

 

[F A N]

16 players were drafted by NHL teams
16 players went on to play professional AHL/NHL games, 1 to the KHL
10 played NHL games

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take anything away from Anton Cederholm.

 

[me2]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take anything away from Anton Cederholm.

You're not, he was in Sweden at the time.

 

[strattonius]

The point I am trying to make is coaching definitely can make a difference. If it makes no difference, teams wouldn't even spend bucks on coaching. The numbers show Gudbranson was like the worst D in the league. Having Stecher is the top 4 instead of Gudbranson definitely would of make a difference.

Green should be fired becaude he is a horrible coach. I am still trying to figure out where this mythe came from that he good at developing players. He is horrible at developing players.

You have no evidence or basis as to why he is terrible at developing players. If your only example is that he played Gudbranson in the top 4 for too long, I dont think its enough to have him fired. And if you use Goldobin as another example - well I happen to agree with how much ice Goldobin has seen.

 

[Canucks1096]

You have no evidence or basis as to why he is terrible at developing players. If your only example is that he played Gudbranson in the top 4 for too long, I dont think its enough to have him fired. And if you use Goldobin as another example - well I happen to agree with how much ice Goldobin has seen.

What kind of evidences do you want me to provide? Aside from the big 3 of Horvat Boeser Petey. Great players will perform regardless who is the coach. There is nobody on the roster that taken their game to another level/ improve a lot with Green as a head coach. This is not evidences? If he was good at developing players.

Your response before would be player A B C D E has all improve under Green
Tell me which young player did Green developed? If you can't name a handful. That is evidences already that he is not at good at developing players.

The time that Green was the coach in Utica. Every player that he coached for at least a season down there. I believe there is only player that made it to nhl full time and that's Virtanen.

 

[Fatass]

What kind of evidences do you want me to provide? Aside from the big 3 of Horvat Boeser Petey. Great players will perform regardless who is the coach. There is nobody on the roster that taken their game to another level/ improve a lot with Green as a head coach. This is not evidences? If he was good at developing players.

Your response before would be player A B C D E has all improve under Green
Tell me which young player did Green developed? If you can't name a handful. That is evidences already that he is not at good at developing players.

The time that Green was the coach in Utica. Every player that he coached for at least a season down there. I believe there is only player that made it to him full time and that's Virtanen.

We need to keep only our goalie coach, who did (obviously) great work with Marky. Green, and the ready should be on the same plane out of town with Benning.

 

[Get North]

A coaching change will literally do nothing for this team. Fire Green for what? Are we even done our rebuild yet, what's the point of bringing a new coach if we're still trying to tank for top 5 picks. Player development, the only one who can't seem to get on track is Goldobin, I'd say that's on him considering Green helped Virtanen, Hutton, Biega, Stecher improve their games. Pearson, Leivo, and Schenn have fit in well with the team, Green should be credited with that as well, that's a coach's responsibility to get new guys to fit in half way through a season.

This board was going crazy whenever Willie continuously rolled 4 lines no matter the zone in which the faceoff is being taken. Now, we have a coach who knows what matching lines are and gives his skill players opportunities to score, and everybody wants to fire him?

 

[I am toxic]

We need to keep only our goalie coach, who did (obviously) great work with Marky. Green, and the ready should be on the same plane out of town with Benning.

Well, I would keep Manny as well as Clarke. Obviously I am biased, but I look at Horvat's FO% and I know a little about coach selection.

 

[I am toxic]

A coaching change will literally do nothing for this team. Fire Green for what? Are we even done our rebuild yet, what's the point of bringing a new coach if we're still trying to tank for top 5 picks. Player development, the only one who can't seem to get on track is Goldobin, I'd say that's on him considering Green helped Virtanen, Hutton, Biega, Stecher improve their games. Pearson, Leivo, and Schenn have fit in well with the team, Green should be credited with that as well, that's a coach's responsibility to get new guys to fit in half way through a season.

This board was going crazy whenever Willie continuously rolled 4 lines no matter the zone in which the faceoff is being taken. Now, we have a coach who knows what matching lines are and gives his skill players opportunities to score, and everybody wants to fire him?

Being an upgrade on Willie is not really an issue.

Matching lines is fine, but what about matching forward lines with D pairings? Didn't Green saddle EP with Guds quite a bit? Honest question, I have no idea but heard it mentioned.

Goldy isn't getting any opportunities to score from the press box.

Green is intelligent and articulate, and appears to be a good communicator to the players (reports are mixed).

But Green is not what a team with EP and Hughes needs. This team needs role players that will police the game to protect EP and Hughes and to a lesser extent BB6. Schenn's game last night being a perfect example of that.

Also, this team should not be running Marky into the ground, just to miss playoffs and get a worse draft pick. This team should have seen which way the wind is blowing this season and taken advantage of all the influences that resulted in higher scoring league-wide, to get EP and BB6 and Bo (and yes, Goldy even if only to increase his trade value) high points totals in high scoring games. Have a blowout Calder winner. And exciting hockey games.

In a word - hope. Putting Eriksson out with an empty-netter is something else. Rhymes with pair.

 

[Fatass]

Well, I would keep Manny as well as Clarke. Obviously I am biased, but I look at Horvat's FO% and I know a little about coach selection.

Excellent point. I had forgotten Manny. So we keep Clark and Manny.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

You bench a guy, in Quinn Hughes, the whole f***ing building wants to see, to do what? Finish closer to the playoff spot you’ve been eliminated from?
This goof needs to go. No charisma, never smiles, and doesn’t seem to have a clue that fans want to be entertained.

 

[Fatass]

You bench a guy, in Quinn Hughes, the whole ****ing building wants to see, to do what? Finish closer to the playoff spot you’ve been eliminated from?
This goof needs to go. No charisma, never smiles, and doesn’t seem to have a clue that fans want to be entertained.

And our D was way worse with
Hughes. They all started backing off the line, and losing their gap control. Hughes keeps great gaps. Seriously! Biega and Hutton pretty much just stood in front of Markstrom as soon as ?Dallas got the puck in the neutral zone. Brutal coaching.

 

[lawrence]

Our boys had a 2 goal lead into the 3rd.

Hughes was being played most consistently then he was during game 1. So green decides to play the vets instead to hold the lead.

Funny thing is as he sat Hughes, Dallas kept on attacking And tied it.

With Hughes being played. No goals allowed.
Hughes being benched. Dallas ties it quickly.

Ironically after our late pp, Hughes sees ice again and sets up the team with a good 5 on 5 scoring chance.

Plays again in ot and of course we all saw what he was capable of doing.

I’m done with green and benning.

 

[Svencouver]

You bench a guy, in Quinn Hughes, the whole ****ing building wants to see, to do what? Finish closer to the playoff spot you’ve been eliminated from?
This goof needs to go. No charisma, never smiles, and doesn’t seem to have a clue that fans want to be entertained.

I dont think he was hired to smile and be entertaining... That would be the job of the team clown, but he's busy running the team

 

[F A N]

You bench a guy, in Quinn Hughes, the whole ****ing building wants to see, to do what? Finish closer to the playoff spot you’ve been eliminated from?
This goof needs to go. No charisma, never smiles, and doesn’t seem to have a clue that fans want to be entertained.

Maybe he thinks that going to overtime/shootout = entertainment for the fans. He's not exactly wrong all else being equal.

 

[tyhee]

You bench a guy, in Quinn Hughes, the whole ****ing building wants to see, to do what? Finish closer to the playoff spot you’ve been eliminated from?
This goof needs to go. No charisma, never smiles, and doesn’t seem to have a clue that fans want to be entertained.

I don't know whether Green's benching of Hughes made sense for Hughes' development for the future, but doubt that entertainment in a single game is higher on any coach's list of priorities than developing the player.

Kids don't automatically develop just by the coach opening the gate and giving them more playing time. They have learning to do. There are a few-EP40 seems to be one-who enter the league knowing what to do.

There is an argument to be made. It may be that someone has watched Hughes carefully over time and has reason to believe (beyond a mindless "he's an offensive player and can't be pigeonholed statement) that what Green wanted to teach him was wrong. There may be some reason to think Hughes doesn't need teaching or will react badly to being benched. I'm not pretending to know what was best.

We're not getting those arguments. We're getting expressions of what people want to see and statements about players needing to play, with no analysis of why he was benched or the likely result.

I fully understand fans of a bad team wanting to see hope for the future, but don't understand how that means the coach, who is developed to win games (primarily) and develop players (in the NHL, secondarily) has to go.

 

[vanuck]

Kids don't automatically develop just by the coach opening the gate and giving them more playing time. They have learning to do. There are a few-EP40 seems to be one-who enter the league knowing what to do.

I'm not advocating to fire Green, and I would agree with what you're saying here that in the grand scheme of things players do have to learn and not have ice-time handed to them automatically without merit. However in these last few games of the season, most people want to see Green just play the young guns because it's a chance to evaluate what we have for the future now that we've officially been eliminated anyway.

At the moment we don't know yet what we have in Hughes or Demko or even Gaudette, really, as he hasn't been given big minutes. I would argue that giving them more minutes since we have nothing to lose gives us a larger sample to see how they perform and also see what kind of flaws they have and the mistakes they would make, which would give the coaches more data on what they can improve on over the offseason.

In the long-run however, yes - young players should show that they are doing well in their minutes before the coach gives them more and more ice time. Now that it's the end of the year and we're not making the playoffs, it's a bit of a special scenario.

Without even getting into what this is doing for our draft position, this "win at all costs" approach to his coaching just doesn't make sense for the short remainder of this season.

 

[carolinacanuck]

if i'm the owner, i'd meddle like crazy. two fireable offenses happened this year: benning and the backup goalie cluster and travis green benching hughes a few days after the owner tweeted he was looking forward to watching hughes play. seriously dude? days like these make me miss the late great pat quinn, who would let the kids play and put them right back on the ice after a mistake.

both fired for mismanagement.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

I get that teaching, and winning, are generally paramount, but if the team has been eliminated and I bought a ticket, I ducking want to be ENTERTAINED, so play the kids, muster an occasional smile, and don’t make the fans feel like they’re at a funeral for your dead cat.

I don’t mean smiling mindlessly, I mean when Hughes makes that assist, you smile and pat him on the back when he gets to the bench, instead of looking like there’s somewhere else you’d rather be.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Pettersson has not scored a 5-on-5 goal since 1/20 against Detroit. That's more than 2 months (26 games).

Can Green finally end his silly Leivo-Pettersson-Boeser experiment?

Surrounding Pettersson with two poor-skating shooter with limited play making ability has totally killed Pettersson's even strength scoring.

Green's insistence on keeping this line in tact despite horrible on-ice results really shows that he is a Willie Desjardins level coach that relies on his personal bias rather than objective analysis for making coaching decisions.

So lets just dip into our great wealth of quality wingers. Who would u like to see? Eriksson? Goldobin? Virtanen?

Pettersson plays with our best winger. When Baertschi is healthy he's had alot of shifts with them. So thats our best & second best winger.

The team just isnt good. If they had Tkachuk or Ehlers im sure they would play with Pettersson, but we just dont have a good team. Travis doesnt have alot to work with.

 

[jcfate]

So lets just dip into our great wealth of quality wingers. Who would u like to see? Eriksson? Goldobin? Virtanen?

Pettersson plays with our best winger. When Baertschi is healthy he's had alot of shifts with them. So thats our best & second best winger.

The team just isnt good. If they had Tkachuk or Ehlers im sure they would play with Pettersson, but we just dont have a good team. Travis doesnt have alot to work with.

I actually want to see Gaudette with Pettersson and Boeser to find out whether his offensive outburst in three games back in February can translate into a potential top-6 winger.

My original post is more about Green's insistence on keeping Leivo with Pettersson and Boeser even though Leivo is a third line winger who should not be on the first line.

In fact, after Leivo was traded to the Canucks, he leads all winger on 5-5 TOI with Pettersson and Boeser at 267:36.

The knock on Goldobin is he can only play well with Pettersson but Green decides to keep Goldobin away from Pettersson (82:27 5-5 TOI with Pettersson and Boeser after Leivo trade.)

Leivo has shown in plenty of ice time that he can't play well with Pettersson but Green just staples him on the first line regardless.

Green has essentially turned Goldobin of November (a promising young top-6 winger with defensive issues) into Goldobin of April (a worse Markus Granlund).

Considering that Green totally killed Del Zotto's trade value by refusing to play him over Pouliot, Green's treatment of Goldobin is really not that surprising.

 

[me2]

You guys are overthinking this. A couple of games here or there where gets limited time late is not going to make a difference to his career at this point of the season.

 

[Icebreakers]

Green is a very textbook kind of guy. He will always go with whats safe. No changes to lineups that won a game. Bench young guys who make bad plays. Doesnt get too high or low on anything. Hes just what he is an average NHL coach.