Official Coyotes 2019-2020 Roster Discussion Thread #4

[Mosby]

For as much hate as Edmonton rightly gets for all their high picks, no one seems to talk about Buffalo and Jersey.

 

[Prarievarg]

For as much hate as Edmonton rightly gets for all their high picks, no one seems to talk about Buffalo and Jersey.

I really hope Eichel asks for a trade this summer if Buffalo gets yet another high pick.

 

[Foggy1097]

Gotta feel for Chayka a little. He makes the Hall trade because “the group has earned it...they’ve shown they’re serious about wanting to win and earned a shot to stay together and make a run at it,” etc, etc. He pulls the trigger and the team completely folds. Just takes a huge dump all over the floor Chayka just cleaned. Embarrassing series of events. If this keeps up another week or two then keeping Hall the rest of the year would just be dumb...no point.

 

[_Del_]

He completely misjudged this team and where we are at. I don't feel that sorry for him. The guys he traded for and he signed to big deals are the ones looking to be big problems moving forward. He has completely remade this roster, and while more skilled, there are plenty of losers and floaters on this squad. Guess that doesn't show up in his fancy stats.

 

[Fuhrious]

The Kessel/Galchenyuk deal does my head in each time I think about it. His complete inability to contribute 5v5 was surely evident with even the lightest amount of scouting? Why did GMJC deliberately walk face-first into that contract? Am I missing something in the CBA that says once a team (TOR) retains a chunk of a contract, a second team cant retain more in a subsequent trade? It's the only reason I can think of for him not demanding PIT retain at LEAST 1.5-2m of that salary.

 

[Jamieh]

The Kessel/Galchenyuk deal does my head in each time I think about it. His complete inability to contribute 5v5 was surely evident with even the lightest amount of scouting? Why did GMJC deliberately walk face-first into that contract? Am I missing something in the CBA that says once a team (TOR) retains a chunk of a contract, a second team cant retain more in a subsequent trade? It's the only reason I can think of for him not demanding PIT retain at LEAST 1.5-2m of that salary.

If you were the GM trading an 80 plus point player would you retain and get nothing in return?

 

[XX]

Gotta feel for Chayka a little. He makes the Hall trade because “the group has earned it...they’ve shown they’re serious about wanting to win and earned a shot to stay together and make a run at it,” etc, etc. He pulls the trigger and the team completely folds. Just takes a huge dump all over the floor Chayka just cleaned. Embarrassing series of events. If this keeps up another week or two then keeping Hall the rest of the year would just be dumb...no point.

It was actually just a confidence bluff. The Hall trade was in direct response to Kessel being a waste of space. Hall, unlike Kessel, is elite and fully able to create his own offense.

The Kessel/Galchenyuk deal does my head in each time I think about it. His complete inability to contribute 5v5 was surely evident with even the lightest amount of scouting? Why did GMJC deliberately walk face-first into that contract?

Chayka and Tocchet misjudged the impact carrying a toxic glass cannon of a player would have on overall team play. How much harder it would make managing lines for zero benefit. How Kessel flaunting his ineffectual play would undermine the authority of the coaches. They were blinded by the possibility of adding a PPG winger out of thin air that Tocchet personally likes, in addition to all the obvious ticket sales benefits and the like.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Go to a game and watch him. He does so much more than what you see on TV.

I watched him at games for years, man. The pre-captaincy OEL is gone, maybe for good.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Will Kessel join the likes of Tony Amonte, Olli Jokinen, and Mike Ribeiro?

Brett Hull anyone?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Go to a game and watch him. He does so much more than what you see on TV.

Yep, guy's having a down year in general and particularly on the stat sheet, but still a hockey stud. This is not imo, this is fact and anyone who disagrees is flat out wrong.

 

[BUX7PHX]

He completely misjudged this team and where we are at. I don't feel that sorry for him. The guys he traded for and he signed to big deals are the ones looking to be big problems moving forward. He has completely remade this roster, and while more skilled, there are plenty of losers and floaters on this squad. Guess that doesn't show up in his fancy stats.

You also can't put goaltender injuries into the reason for misjudging this team. I don't know how much Kuemper calms things, but I doubt that we are as bad as our record states if he is healthy. Games like the Carolina game we might sneak a loser point out of in that scenario.

I think he read our team perfectly - we needed additional offense. Defense wasn't the problem. Now it is, and that goes back to Tocchet and the lack of in-game adjustments.

Chayka has done fine in this regard, the players/coaching staff have let him down moreso than his own ideas or hubris behind acquiring Hall.

 

[Name Nameless]

If you were the GM trading an 80 plus point player would you retain and get nothing in return?

If you knew that player was a liability, everybody knew at least one of your stars demanded you got rid of him, his contract was bad and you knew it would be only worse by the years?

Chayka got duped there.

 

[Name Nameless]

For as much hate as Edmonton rightly gets for all their high picks, no one seems to talk about Buffalo and Jersey.

You are to hard on NJ, Jack Hughes is still young, that is not the same as a bust. Hischier was never seen as that super was he. And those two are the only top 5 picks NJ has had since 2011. Buffalo has had a bit more, but Edmonton is in a class of their own.

 

[Jamieh]

If you knew that player was a liability, everybody knew at least one of your stars demanded you got rid of him, his contract was bad and you knew it would be only worse by the years?

Chayka got duped there.

Duped by not knowing what Phil actually is. Not duped by not getting Pitt to retain.

 

[cobra427]

You also can't put goaltender injuries into the reason for misjudging this team. I don't know how much Kuemper calms things, but I doubt that we are as bad as our record states if he is healthy. Games like the Carolina game we might sneak a loser point out of in that scenario.

I think he read our team perfectly - we needed additional offense. Defense wasn't the problem. Now it is, and that goes back to Tocchet and the lack of in-game adjustments.

Chayka has done fine in this regard, the players/coaching staff have let him down moreso than his own ideas or hubris behind acquiring Hall.

I am wondering if after the Hall trade, we lost our identity. Everyone started thinking about scoring, our team D has been bad except for the Oiler game. Its like we lost our focus. This isn't on Hall, he is solid in all 3 zones and gets PK time. Maybe Tocc opened things up a bit and it has back fired. Kuemper out has hurt but our drop off in goal tending is minor compared to our drop off in team D.

It seemed like our 4th line was pretty effective the last 2 games. No real scorers, just guys that play hard, don't make many mistakes, and don't focus on scoring. They look for turnovers or opportunities. We need more of that out of Keller/Kessel/Schmaltz. I actually did see Phil forecheck and win a board battle, caused a turnover last night. That type of play will lead to goals for all 3 of them. But, our GAA needs to be low, all about team D right now.

 

[SniperHF]

Sad to say, I think GMJC should look at trading Grabner by the TDL. He is either nursing something too minor to require an injury report, or has found himself in the inescapable vortex known as RT's doghouse and is getting chain-scratched. Whether I agree with RT's decision or not, it's stupid to pay Grabner $3.3m to be the 13th man when Chaput could do it at a quarter of the salary.

I have my own sort of talking out my ass theory on Grabner, so take it fwiw but it's that he's lost motivation. I do think his game is impacted by his vision but I don't think that's all of it. He can't play up to the abilities he once had due to his vision and it's probably hurting his passion for the game. Derek Morris had the same kinda loss of passion though not driven by injury but just age and he said he didn't know when to quit until the org made him and then he realized he shoulda done it himself.

Next to Grabs in the press box

This is the best post on F40 this week 10/10.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I am wondering if after the Hall trade, we lost our identity. Everyone started thinking about scoring, our team D has been bad except for the Oiler game. Its like we lost our focus. This isn't on Hall, he is solid in all 3 zones and gets PK time. Maybe Tocc opened things up a bit and it has back fired. Kuemper out has hurt but our drop off in goal tending is minor compared to our drop off in team D.

I actually did see Phil forecheck and win a board battle, caused a turnover last night. That type of play will lead to goals for all 3 of them. But, our GAA needs to be low, all about team D right now.

RE Hall: sometimes you bring in the big name/scorer and those who were scoring subconsciously don't feel like "as key" an element - very hard to explain the change in chemistry there. GMJC did all he could to not upset the cart, by not moving anyone in the deal, but the record and stats state otherwise. Also - not on Hall whatsoever.

I have not noticed anything (technically) that RT has opened up.

Phil has actually been skating harder and putting in more effort since the return from break. He's just SO FRUSTRATING with puck handling issues and refusal to shoot. Last night on the pp, he had a man directly in front of their goalie, with all four corners open to shoot at (it was right in my line of sight) and he passes! I just don't know what's going on with him.

 

[SniperHF]

I have not noticed anything (technically) that RT has opened up.

Yep, I don't think that's been a thing either. Mostly a talking point by people(non Coyotes fans) who don't like Hall and want to blame him as a team killer or some such.

 

[lanky]

Kessel not shooting and not taking passes cleanly is a classic case of lost confidence. It's a better problem to have than laziness. He'll get through it if he keeps skating.

 

[AKL]

Is there any word on how long Hayton will be in Tucson for conditioning, and do y'all think he'll be a regular in the lineup when he comes back? Looking at the roster, I can't see who he'd really replace full time (Fischer?). Admittedly I don't follow the team so much, but I was at the Hawks game last weekend and I've got tickets to three other games so far this spring. Wondering the odds I get to see Hayton playing in any of them.

 

[Mosby]

Heard it’s not going to be a very long stint in Tucson for Hayton.

 

[hbk]

Heard it’s not going to be a very long stint in Tucson for Hayton.

I think he can only be down there for 4 games or so.

 

[Mosby]

Yep, something to do with him coming off IR.

 

[BUX7PHX]

RE Hall: sometimes you bring in the big name/scorer and those who were scoring subconsciously don't feel like "as key" an element - very hard to explain the change in chemistry there. GMJC did all he could to not upset the cart, by not moving anyone in the deal, but the record and stats state otherwise. Also - not on Hall whatsoever.

I have not noticed anything (technically) that RT has opened up.

Phil has actually been skating harder and putting in more effort since the return from break. He's just SO FRUSTRATING with puck handling issues and refusal to shoot. Last night on the pp, he had a man directly in front of their goalie, with all four corners open to shoot at (it was right in my line of sight) and he passes! I just don't know what's going on with him.

Yeah, it could be the reverse effect of the 2012-13 season. That was the short year after the WCF, and everyone had this mindset that we can simply let Smith handle it, and he can shoulder the load to keep us in the hunt. Here, it almost seems like the mindset sunk in that if we go down early, we have Hall to help get goals like that back. Maybe the worst thing for us was to have him make that play in San Jose to set up the winning goal. Like that becomes the new norm and plays like that can happen all the time and save games. In reality, that was a great play, but that means our players need to match that level of intensity and drive.

 

[rt]

I think he can only be down there for 4 games or so.

I thought it was seven days. And Tucson happened to have four games scheduled for throes seven days.