Official Coyotes 2019-20 Season Roster Discussion

[saska sault]

Have not been following much, so apologize for any ignorance. What's the deal with Hayton, doesn't seem to be playing a ton to start the year.. Any word if he is still likely to stick with the big club this year or likely he is sent back to major junior?

 

[rt]

Have not been following much, so apologize for any ignorance. What's the deal with Hayton, doesn't seem to be playing a ton to start the year.. Any word if he is still likely to stick with the big club this year or likely he is sent back to major junior?

I think he will stick. He played really well. He got roughed up a bit and his nose got a bit smooshed. They gave him a game off for bumps and bruises and to take a breather. The team got hot and the coach doesn’t adjust the roster when they’re winning. He will get back in there the next time they lose or if someone gets hurt. I think he will win a spot for good next time he starts. He seems ready to me.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Chayka should really be swinging a lottery protected 1st around and see what he gets. Team needs good players now, not 2 or 3 years down the road.

I definitely like the idea of going for that trade early in the season before every one gets the read on which tiers each team belongs in. We look to be on the definite upswing, so perhaps other GMs don't see that yet, though that is doubtful, and it makes the deal look riskier for us from their vantage point. On the other side, how likely is another GM to trade away a quality player this early in the season? That's the kind of move an owner steps in to refuse as it'll tank fan excitement for the season when you're seen as throwing in the towel 10 games in. But yeah, strike while the iron is hot and the Coyotes are still bottom 10 team and aren't just having a hotter start in the eyes of the rest of the league.

 

[Canis Latrans]

I could see Hinostroza being involved in a deal for Zucker. If Zucker is retained for about $700k on Minnesota's part, I would think Hinostroza and a 1st for Zucker and something future coming back (3rd/4th round pick in 2021 or 2022).

That's an immediate upgrade if Zucker simply took Hinostroza's place in the lineup.

I don't see Hinostroza as part of the team's core either. We have actual depth now, so a semi-responsible forward whose only offense really comes from his speed is disposable. I see him making the same offensive play down the side, where if he doesn't beat the guy outright so he can take it to the net, he's out of ideas and just coughs it up. Similarly, on defense, in one of the last two games, he got similarly walked as he did against Fowler in the first game of the season. I don't recall if they scored, but I think what you see with him is what you're going to get in the future, with a very slow rate of improvement.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I like how Hayton is being eased in to the lineup. I like that he is on the team and so no longer living on empty pockets. That's got to be a big plus when Hayton looks at his situation with the Coyotes.

 

[TheLegend]

Coyotes recalled Aaron Ness to fill Oesterle's spot.

 

[Llewzaher]

I have to see Hayton one more time but his second game I thought he looked out of his league a bit ...

Today would be the perfect game for him to play though

 

[hbk]

Have not been following much, so apologize for any ignorance. What's the deal with Hayton, doesn't seem to be playing a ton to start the year.. Any word if he is still likely to stick with the big club this year or likely he is sent back to major junior?

The earliest he would get returned to OHL is post world juniors.

 

[lanky]

The earliest he would get returned to OHL is post world juniors.

Maybe. Still a bit early to make that call imo.

 

[rt]

I could see Hinostroza being involved in a deal for Zucker. If Zucker is retained for about $700k on Minnesota's part, I would think Hinostroza and a 1st for Zucker and something future coming back (3rd/4th round pick in 2021 or 2022).

That's an immediate upgrade if Zucker simply took Hinostroza's place in the lineup.

Hinostroza is two years younger, has a 9% points per game rate in his NHL career, and had a fraction of the cap hit.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Hinostroza is two years younger, has a 9% points per game rate in his NHL career, and had a fraction of the cap hit.

Yet, as many people have said, this game is about putting the puck in the net. He hasn't had fewer than 20 goals a season in the last 3 seasons. He is on pace for 27 goals with a poor Minnesota team (granted those are his only points).

Is Hinostroza a guaranteed 20 goal scorer? What price does he come in at as an RFA after this year? If it is somewhere in the range of $2.7 - 3.5 M per season for a guy who has never hit 20 goals and is likely to top out at a 0.5 ppg player on a 3 year deal vs a player who is an established 0.5 ppg player and is likely to go above that mark more consistently, yeah, I would want to pay up to $5.5 M AAV for that.

I would ask Minnesota to eat somewhere between $0.5 - 1 M per year for a late 1st and Hinostroza. Probably a pick or prospect from Minnesota to balance it out.

Personally, that is because I don't know if Hinostroza is a consistent 20 goal scorer at this point and I don't think he gets there. I think he is a 0.40 - 0.50 ppg player in general. That tops him out at 40-45 points in a season. I think that is Zucker's floor. Last year was probably considered a bad year for Zucker and he went for 41 points. I think that Zucker can be a 0.65 ppg player at peak. Regardless, he will get 20 goals, even if only hitting his floor.

 

[Name Nameless]

You don't think the new owner would be slightly less interested in trading Hinostroza, given new owner wants to market the team to the latino part of the state?

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I like Hinostoza a lot, energizer bunny type player. He's going to get hot at some point and rattle off a point streak. He's a lot like Panik except with consistent effort. That said, Zucker is an improvement but I don't see us making that move

 

[saska sault]

The earliest he would get returned to OHL is post world juniors.

That would be almost the 40 game make for Arizona no? Not sure sitting over 3/4's of the games is the best route for development but... Whatever works.

 

[rt]

Yet, as many people have said, this game is about putting the puck in the net. He hasn't had fewer than 20 goals a season in the last 3 seasons. He is on pace for 27 goals with a poor Minnesota team (granted those are his only points).

Is Hinostroza a guaranteed 20 goal scorer? What price does he come in at as an RFA after this year? If it is somewhere in the range of $2.7 - 3.5 M per season for a guy who has never hit 20 goals and is likely to top out at a 0.5 ppg player on a 3 year deal vs a player who is an established 0.5 ppg player and is likely to go above that mark more consistently, yeah, I would want to pay up to $5.5 M AAV for that.

I would ask Minnesota to eat somewhere between $0.5 - 1 M per year for a late 1st and Hinostroza. Probably a pick or prospect from Minnesota to balance it out.

Personally, that is because I don't know if Hinostroza is a consistent 20 goal scorer at this point and I don't think he gets there. I think he is a 0.40 - 0.50 ppg player in general. That tops him out at 40-45 points in a season. I think that is Zucker's floor. Last year was probably considered a bad year for Zucker and he went for 41 points. I think that Zucker can be a 0.65 ppg player at peak. Regardless, he will get 20 goals, even if only hitting his floor.

If Minnesota was willing to eat 20%, I’d trade Fischer and a lottery protected 1st for Zucker.

They were going to do Frolik and Calgary’s 1st for him at the TDL but a technical glitch f***ed the deal up at the last minute and the deadline passed. Someone in Calgary screwed up something.

Frolik is trash. Overpaid trash. Calgary’s 1st was set to be 26th overall at best. Our pick would be as high as 16th or 17th. Teams pay as much as a mid-2nd to move up that far in the 1st. And Fischer is more valuable than Frolik.

 

[cobra427]

I think he will stick. He played really well. He got roughed up a bit and his nose got a bit smooshed. They gave him a game off for bumps and bruises and to take a breather. The team got hot and the coach doesn’t adjust the roster when they’re winning. He will get back in there the next time they lose or if someone gets hurt. I think he will win a spot for good next time he starts. He seems ready to me.

I thought he looked good as well, time will tell, verdict is still out. I would say its 50/50 he sticks past 9 games. If he is still borderline NHL player, they shouldn't waste a year of his ELC with limited playing time/Games.

 

[cobra427]

Yet, as many people have said, this game is about putting the puck in the net. He hasn't had fewer than 20 goals a season in the last 3 seasons. He is on pace for 27 goals with a poor Minnesota team (granted those are his only points).

Is Hinostroza a guaranteed 20 goal scorer? What price does he come in at as an RFA after this year? If it is somewhere in the range of $2.7 - 3.5 M per season for a guy who has never hit 20 goals and is likely to top out at a 0.5 ppg player on a 3 year deal vs a player who is an established 0.5 ppg player and is likely to go above that mark more consistently, yeah, I would want to pay up to $5.5 M AAV for that.

I would ask Minnesota to eat somewhere between $0.5 - 1 M per year for a late 1st and Hinostroza. Probably a pick or prospect from Minnesota to balance it out.

Personally, that is because I don't know if Hinostroza is a consistent 20 goal scorer at this point and I don't think he gets there. I think he is a 0.40 - 0.50 ppg player in general. That tops him out at 40-45 points in a season. I think that is Zucker's floor. Last year was probably considered a bad year for Zucker and he went for 41 points. I think that Zucker can be a 0.65 ppg player at peak. Regardless, he will get 20 goals, even if only hitting his floor.

I don't think we should be using more cap space on wingers. I see you are thinking they retain though. I also am not a fan of trading first round picks in general, not for a winger anyway. We have plenty of wingers that could break out this year and score goals for us, I would go with that for now.

 

[TheLegend]

Oesterle was placed on IR retroactive to Thursday. Earliest he can come back is next Thursday at the Islanders.

 

[XX]

If Minnesota was willing to eat 20%, I’d trade Fischer and a lottery protected 1st for Zucker.

They were going to do Frolik and Calgary’s 1st for him at the TDL but a technical glitch ****ed the deal up at the last minute and the deadline passed. Someone in Calgary screwed up something.

Frolik is trash. Overpaid trash. Calgary’s 1st was set to be 26th overall at best. Our pick would be as high as 16th or 17th. Teams pay as much as a mid-2nd to move up that far in the 1st. And Fischer is more valuable than Frolik.

It'd be a huge upgrade. Fischer isn't even replacement level, and Zucker was top 50 last year in WAR. Right between guys like Zibanejad, B.Schenn, and Radulov.

I assume Chayka would do a slam dunk deal like that if it was available.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

You don't think the new owner would be slightly less interested in trading Hinostroza, given new owner wants to market the team to the latino part of the state?

Meruelo wants to appeal to Hispanic fans, but above all else he sure as **** wants to win. If trading Hinostroza would get us someone like Zucker, then he'd greenlight it all day long.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I don't think we should be using more cap space on wingers. I see you are thinking they retain though. I also am not a fan of trading first round picks in general, not for a winger anyway. We have plenty of wingers that could break out this year and score goals for us, I would go with that for now.

The way that I kind of look at it is that Zucker is a proven commodity moreso than either Hinostroza (or other comparables) or a draft pick that were to be taken between 18 and 31.

We are getting the better player for 3 years of Zucker's deal vs whatever Hinostroza becomes. That late 1st round pick is really unlikely to be a consistent 20 goal scorer. I was looking through some recent picks in that range. Probably a 25-40% chance that the player scores 20+ goals and an even smaller percentage that they will be able to do so before Zucker's deal is up.

If the alternatives are keep a player like Hinostroza and keep a pick that has a certain chance of being a productive NHL player vs. having a player like Zucker and giving up Hinostroza and a pick that is likely to be about Hinostroza's same level of talent, give me Zucker every time.

We dont want to be the team that perpetuates picking up the 30-40 point players over time. We want to get the ones who are better than that. If our scouts are doing their jobs and finding Jeniks in the 3rd round or Bahls in the 2nd, then losing a pick in the 20s or later is nothing.

 

[XX]

Marcus Foligno, over the last 3 years, has been an incredible defensive forward. He might actually be the better fit. Would go great with Richardson and Grabner, moving Hino out of the defensive dungeon.

 

[rt]

Marcus Foligno, over the last 3 years, has been an incredible defensive forward. He might actually be the better fit. Would go great with Richardson and Grabner, moving Hino out of the defensive dungeon.

Love Foligno. He beats the shits out of people.

 

[XX]

Fischer had excellent numbers his first year, below replacement his 2nd. They are going to be patient. He's a net positive on the ice right now despite not having points. Fischer is much better defensively than most give him credit for.

The three players struggling most at 5v5 are Vinnie, OEL, and Crouse.

Numbers wise, Crouse should absolutely be on the defensive line with Richardson, and Hino needs to get away from it.

 

[hbk]

That would be almost the 40 game make for Arizona no? Not sure sitting over 3/4's of the games is the best route for development but... Whatever works.

Hayton will be back in lineup likely next game. It was always an ease into the lineup situation.

Putting up 2 points a game against 16 year olds doesn’t do much either.