Official Coyotes 2019-20 Season Roster Discussion

[Llewzaher]

Hmmm...I really like Vinny?

Keller-Yeti-Kessel
Dvo-Schmaltz-Garland
Hayton-Stepan-Hinostroza
Crouse-Richardson-Grabner
Fischer

????

Hayton , Stepan and Vinny , is very intriguing ..

Not sure how ready Hayton is .. he looked great the first game and seemed to be out of his league the second one ..

Interesting to see how Yeti would do on the first line .. he does seem gassed at times..

But these lines look like they have a lot of potential

I think Vinny needs more ice time to be successful , also golden in the shootouts.

 

[PuckLife]

Hayton , Stepan and Vinny , is very intriguing ..

Not sure how ready Hayton is .. he looked great the first game and seemed to be out of his league the second one ..

Interesting to see how Yeti would do on the first line .. he does seem gassed at times..

But these lines look like they have a lot of potential

I think Vinny needs more ice time to be successful , also golden in the shootouts.

I disagree that he looked out of his league in the second game. He was roughed up a bit, but really only because the was playing "sticky". Even on the infamous hit by Makar, Hayton was back up and into the play faster than Makar was. He had a couple great shots, a take-away and drew 2 penalties. That combined with his tape-to-tape passes = the kid is ready, IMO.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I feel like the Vinny hate is largely coming because we don't have a forward to complain about. I like Vinny a lot as well.

I don't hate the kid - I just think that he's eminently replaceable. Tons of guys around with a lot of motor but middling SA and hockey IQ.

 

[Schemp]

I thought about a
Grabner-Richardson-Stepan line
as a shut down line

 

[BUX7PHX]

I feel like the Vinny hate is largely coming because we don't have a forward to complain about. I like Vinny a lot as well.

True, considering that people were going crazy over the "poor" play of Schmaltz and he is over a PPG in a very young season.

Honestly, there aren't that many bad things about our team, so we may be picky for the sake of being picky.

I am just looking at this from the perspective of what Chayka looks for. I think that Hinostroza's hustle and energy are unquestioned. I just don't think that he is good enough in other areas to where a long term deal make sense. A bridge deal can work out fine, but I get the feeling that we would basically be in a similar situation to where we were at with Boedker. Their production is similar, although I would take Hinostroza's game before Boedker's. That's one of those things where we expected Boedker to take that next step, and it didn't really happen. Would we be making the same mistake with Hinostroza, in that sense?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

True, considering that people were going crazy over the "poor" play of Schmaltz and he is over a PPG in a very young season.

Here's the fun part about statistics - they don't tell the whole context of the story. The fact that Schmaltz is over a PPG at this point and our PP is in the top 10 of the league does not change the fact that, at one point of the season (admittedly in a small sample size), Schmaltz looked horrible and our PP was 0-for-everything. Hindsight is great but at the time there were real concerns, and that those concerns were addressed eventually shouldn't unfairly characterize those who had them at the time.

I am just looking at this from the perspective of what Chayka looks for. I think that Hinostroza's hustle and energy are unquestioned. I just don't think that he is good enough in other areas to where a long term deal make sense. A bridge deal can work out fine, but I get the feeling that we would basically be in a similar situation to where we were at with Boedker. Their production is similar, although I would take Hinostroza's game before Boedker's. That's one of those things where we expected Boedker to take that next step, and it didn't really happen. Would we be making the same mistake with Hinostroza, in that sense?

I think Hinostroza is going to have to show something special at some point for Chayka to give him a new deal - something that sets him apart from the Boedkers and Rieders of the world. Otherwise, we've got prospects in the system who can take Vinnie's spot with little to no effort.

 

[cobra427]

Here's the fun part about statistics - they don't tell the whole context of the story. The fact that Schmaltz is over a PPG at this point and our PP is in the top 10 of the league does not change the fact that, at one point of the season (admittedly in a small sample size), Schmaltz looked horrible and our PP was 0-for-everything. Hindsight is great but at the time there were real concerns, and that those concerns were addressed eventually shouldn't unfairly characterize those who had them at the time.



I think Hinostroza is going to have to show something special at some point for Chayka to give him a new deal - something that sets him apart from the Boedkers and Rieders of the world. Otherwise, we've got prospects in the system who can take Vinnie's spot with little to no effort.

Lets let Vinnie play out this year. We don't need to spend cap and term on another winger unless we know what we are getting. So far he is middle of the road to below average. Remember Reider had a 35-40 point season and lots of missed break aways too, we had high hopes, he faded. Out of Fischer/Vinnie/Crouse/Garland, lets see who comes through for us on the wing this year then decide.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Here's the fun part about statistics - they don't tell the whole context of the story. The fact that Schmaltz is over a PPG at this point and our PP is in the top 10 of the league does not change the fact that, at one point of the season (admittedly in a small sample size), Schmaltz looked horrible and our PP was 0-for-everything. Hindsight is great but at the time there were real concerns, and that those concerns were addressed eventually shouldn't unfairly characterize those who had them at the time.

Then, we could say the same logic about Strome and his 51 in 57.

Ultimately, you are right, snapshots of statistics can paint different pictures. That's why for about the first 5 games of the season, I am less concerned about wins and losses. I want to simply see how the players are handling themselves on ice.

I was honestly surprised to see all the words against Schmaltz, because I saw some lapses in judgment early, but I thought that his play was actually good overall. For a lot of players, I thought that they were playing well, however, we didn't score enough to win the first 2 games. That was my only complaint. We have been better than every team that we have faced in almost every period.

We were playing too well to not score eventually. But people get too caught up in blaming someone or something.

We are playing at a very high level, regardless of how many goals we score. I don't think that Kessel, Schmaltz, or any other player was mysteriously told something in video to change to bring about the production that is being watched. I think they have been capable of that production, and the only thing that needed solving was simply getting the puck in net. Nothing more, nothing less. The things that players who were "underperforming" were not fixes that could be managed in practices or a magical quote from the coach. We were simply unlucky in goal scoring at the moment.

 

[Kaizen]

I think some enterprising stats geek ought to track how many maintenance days Kessel and Schmaltz take this season.

So you're going to take that on are you?

 

[Foggy1097]

Vinny shined last year when all the injuries hit and he was playing more minutes. He needs more minutes and possible a change of linemates. I’d be sitting Fischer for multiple games now to see what Hayton can do over a stretch of playing 4-5 games in a row.

Keller-Stepan-Kessel
Dvorak-Schmaltz-Hinostroza
Hayton-Soderberg-Garland
Crouse-Richardson-Grabner

I doubt we’d see much drop off, if any, with Vinny on that second line. Soderberg and Garland have shown already they play well together and their games compliment one another.

 

[cobra427]

Then, we could say the same logic about Strome and his 51 in 57.

Ultimately, you are right, snapshots of statistics can paint different pictures. That's why for about the first 5 games of the season, I am less concerned about wins and losses. I want to simply see how the players are handling themselves on ice.

I was honestly surprised to see all the words against Schmaltz, because I saw some lapses in judgment early, but I thought that his play was actually good overall. For a lot of players, I thought that they were playing well, however, we didn't score enough to win the first 2 games. That was my only complaint. We have been better than every team that we have faced in almost every period.

We were playing too well to not score eventually. But people get too caught up in blaming someone or something.

We are playing at a very high level, regardless of how many goals we score. I don't think that Kessel, Schmaltz, or any other player was mysteriously told something in video to change to bring about the production that is being watched. I think they have been capable of that production, and the only thing that needed solving was simply getting the puck in net. Nothing more, nothing less. The things that players who were "underperforming" were not fixes that could be managed in practices or a magical quote from the coach. We were simply unlucky in goal scoring at the moment.

I also thought Schmaltz was solid when he wasn't producing points. Our team D has been very good, so players are being generally responsible and playing within the system. We need to keep the GAA down, that is our strong suit. I see all these suggested changes on this board but many times line combinations are about D more than O. You need a balance but D combinations of forward lines are more important, they keep you in games. I think about this in terms of our first line, Stepan makes them better on D, they will get tough matchups and that line has to play D too with 2 average wingers. Schmaltz/DVO/garland line has been money, if it works don't fix it. I do think that line will start seeing stiffer matchups but that could free up the Stepan line.

Bottom line, the team looks very good, make small changes but not much. We have been in every game with a chance to win, don't fix it.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So you're going to take that on are you?

I'm not a stats geek, but if I had to estimate, I would say they're going to take ALL the maintenance days.

 

[Jamieh]

I'm not a stats geek, but if I had to estimate, I would say they're going to take ALL the maintenance days.

I doubt Phil sees anything but "optional" in the optional day skates. He declines that option every single time.

 

[XX]

I think Hinostroza is going to have to show something special at some point for Chayka to give him a new deal - something that sets him apart from the Boedkers and Rieders of the world. Otherwise, we've got prospects in the system who can take Vinnie's spot with little to no effort.

Hard to show anything when you are on a defensive line seeing unfavorable deployment. Nobody would look good in that wing spot, which is why it's a perfect place to park Crouse.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Hard to show anything when you are on a defensive line seeing unfavorable deployment. Nobody would look good in that wing spot, which is why it's a perfect place to park Crouse.

Except Garland did last year when he was on the fourth line during his first call-ups. It's possible - it just takes a hell of a lot of effort.

 

[XX]

Except Garland did last year when he was on the fourth line during his first call-ups. It's possible - it just takes a hell of a lot of effort.

Garland started in the offensive zone 67% of the time, Vinnie only 'enjoyed' 42% ozone starts. Vinnie's number would actually be a lot lower if he hadn't spent almost 400 minutes away from the two vets.

Garland had about 15 minutes total with one of Richardson or Grabner 5v5 so I don't know what the hell you are talking about. This is why we trust but verify with numbers.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

I think some enterprising stats geek ought to track how many maintenance days Kessel and Schmaltz take this season.

I'm not a stats geek, but if I had to estimate, I would say they're going to take ALL the maintenance days.

I doubt Phil sees anything but "optional" in the optional day skates. He declines that option every single time.

 

[Jamieh]

View attachment 267303

I'm reading that in Iverson's voice, epic rant.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

From what I've seen Hinostrosa is good defensively, and very, very fast. Grabner fast. I have no problem with his game, as I don't expect 15 goals from a forward on my defensive line.

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

The team is playing great, no tinkering with the lines needs to be done until that changes and I'm not sure it's going to change. Both the eye test and the underlying numbers say that this is a playoff team. If the Coyotes play at a 4-2-1 pace the entire year you end up at roughly 47-23-12 which is 106 points. I need a bigger sample size before I believe this team is actually as good as 106 points, but the entire Western Conference is chaos right now and maybe the Central isn't actually that great this year so there are more points available out there than you might have anticipated before the season.

Here's some analytics that gave me the warm fuzzies over the weekend. Click the link to the twitter thread to see the other 6 charts where the Coyotes show extremely well:

 

[The Feckless Puck]

This is why we trust but verify with numbers.

That's fine, but once all the number parsing is done you're left with what is done with opportunity. I don't think Hinostroza has done as much with his as Garland has. We'll see how things shake out as the season goes on.

 

[XX]

That's fine, but once all the number parsing is done you're left with what is done with opportunity. I don't think Hinostroza has done as much with his as Garland has. We'll see how things shake out as the season goes on.

Garland's opportunities came on the opponent's 20 yard line, whereas Vinnie had to start at his own 20. A player that would be reasonably expected to succeed at the latter would be considered a superstar. There are many players in the league that can only really do the former.

 

[XX]

Here's some analytics that gave me the warm fuzzies over the weekend. Click the link to the twitter thread to see the other 6 charts where the Coyotes show extremely well:

The PDO one is the most important, tells us that what we're 'seeing' is sustainable and not really abnormal.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Garland's opportunities came on the opponent's 20 yard line, whereas Vinnie had to start at his own 20. A player that would be reasonably expected to succeed at the latter would be considered a superstar. There are many players in the league that can only really do the former.

In a way though, the team is clearly considering Garland ahead of Hinostroza anyhow. He is getting ice time with Schmaltz and Dvorak, because he is putting himself ahead of Hinostroza with his play.

I don't think that Hinostroza is a bad player by any means. However, I don't believe that he will live up to a 40 point scorer that I think some people believe he will be

 

[_Del_]

considering that people were going crazy over the "poor" play of Schmaltz and he is over a PPG in a very young season.

Yes. People often criticize players when they are playing like shit. Good job noticing.