Salary Cap: Official Cap Hell / Contracts Thread
- Thread starter Lord Stan 2020
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Sky04
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- Jan 8, 2009
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19 points in 16 games, he's allowed a couple games where he doesn't produce. Nobody scores in every game, Kucherov had 7 points in 3 games before this, how many players show up for all 7 games in a 7 game series? Crosby, the best forward in the world was a no show half this series.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
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Not really, he still has 17 points in 16 games, sure he'll get criticized like he is right now for his poor turnovers and defensive play but he's still producing at an elite rate in the playoffs. And yeah that was the regular season, Stamkos has shown he can't produce when it matters.
I agree that johnson/namestnikov is a terrible idea as our top-6 centers next season, Stamkos isn't a must sign but they should seek out another top-6 center if he doesn't.
Definitely agree, but who do you guys think we go after? Do we take a chance on overpaying a UFA in a poor class with the cap issues we already have or do we trade for somebody younger and more cost-controlled (and if so who do we use as bait?)
Stamkos re-signs for like 8.7 million, Johnson re-signs for like 6.5 Million Kucherov around 7 million, Palat around 6 million, and Hedman around 8 million, Killorn around 4.5 million. We will lose Filppula, Carle, Garrison, and possibly Bishop but should be able to keep our core intact while keeping our supporting players as well. Also, Isn't there like 5 million of cap coming off next year from retained contracts and etc?
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I think 6.5 and 6 is too high for TyJo and Palat respectfully. I would love to keep Killorn but he is a casualty if need be. We should be able to find a capable replacement for him.
Flip, Carle can both go.
Don't want to lose Garrison. Keep Bishop as long as possible.
Victhor Ollesson
Registered User
The Gagner retention is $1.6M in space, and the Coburn extension is $0.8M in space. A Carle buyout would be about $3.67M in space, and Stamkos walking would be another $7.5M. That's potentially $13.57M in space.
This off-season's priorities are now: re-signing Kucherov; extending Hedman; and re-signing (or trading) other RFAs like Killorn, Namestnikov, Brown, Paquette, and Nesterov. Guessing... Kucherov for 6 years at $6.67M per; Hedman for 8 years at $7.75M per; Killorn for 5 years at $4.25M per; Namestnikov for 2 years at $1.75M per; Brown for 2 years at $1.5M per; and Paquette for 2 years at $0.875M per. If those are anywhere in the ball park, they will eat up about $12M of the $13.57M.
If Stamkos walks, Filppula will be insurance at center and will probably be here next year at the least. Callahan will not be movable for another 2 years. That means management is still going to have to get creative for the next off-season - to fit in the Hedman extension, and the Johnson and Palat re-signings (whatever they end up being). Despite being pretty prideful, I think (or hope) Drouin will stay. So that is another re-signing for next off-season as well.
I do think management is going to be preemptive in preparing for the next off-season and expansion, though. I would not be surprised to see Garrison traded and maybe even Bishop at some point too. Who knows? Maybe they can entice someone to eat Carle's full contract, and then find someone to take Condra as well.
It is going to be interesting to say the least, maybe not in a good way.
This off-season's priorities are now: re-signing Kucherov; extending Hedman; and re-signing (or trading) other RFAs like Killorn, Namestnikov, Brown, Paquette, and Nesterov. Guessing... Kucherov for 6 years at $6.67M per; Hedman for 8 years at $7.75M per; Killorn for 5 years at $4.25M per; Namestnikov for 2 years at $1.75M per; Brown for 2 years at $1.5M per; and Paquette for 2 years at $0.875M per. If those are anywhere in the ball park, they will eat up about $12M of the $13.57M.
If Stamkos walks, Filppula will be insurance at center and will probably be here next year at the least. Callahan will not be movable for another 2 years. That means management is still going to have to get creative for the next off-season - to fit in the Hedman extension, and the Johnson and Palat re-signings (whatever they end up being). Despite being pretty prideful, I think (or hope) Drouin will stay. So that is another re-signing for next off-season as well.
I do think management is going to be preemptive in preparing for the next off-season and expansion, though. I would not be surprised to see Garrison traded and maybe even Bishop at some point too. Who knows? Maybe they can entice someone to eat Carle's full contract, and then find someone to take Condra as well.
It is going to be interesting to say the least, maybe not in a good way.
chasespace
Registered User
I wouldn't mind letting Paquette walk as he has a habit of taking penalties at the absolute worse time. Wouldn't mind letting Nesterov walk either as Witko and take his #7 spot and be cheaper in the process
The Gongshow
Fire JBB
With Sustr and Koekkoek playing good hockey, Nesterov is the odd man out, along with Carle who has been on the outside looking in for a while now
Why does everyone wants RFA's that can play in the NHL to walk? If we let Paquette and Nesterov walk it hurts our depth and causes us to bring up players who aren't ready. Paquette and Nesterov should both be signed for under 1mil so would be cheap depth options. I would love to get Erne, Peca, Blujus and DeAngelo minutes they just aren't ready for anything more than a cameo. The only Syracuse player ready for a full-time role is Richard and I hope he makes it as a 4th liner over Condra next year. Witkowski isn't mobile enough for our style, slower and worse Gudas who we traded away.
Cigar City
Registered User
Except that was February. The problem is Stamkos has never done it in May. Johnson has.
Hello so I have been reading, but I am new to the boards. For the cap I really think it will all get settled out because it looks like the guys want to be part of here. But I am curious as to what the prices will be in order to keep everyone.
By the looks of it you would think that Stammer is going to be gone. Kuch, Heddy, Bish, Jo, Palat, Johnson, Killorn, are not necessarily more valuable for the price they can be seen as such. Stammer is a great player I wish he could always be on our team but unless he decides he wants less and makes everyone else on the team take less as well then I just don't see it happening. So for what those guys should get is really whats up in the air.
Kuch is the MVP of forward group. He is a guy that we need. Im thinking like most of you 6-7m for 6-8 yr term. It'll be interesting if he wants the 8 years now or if he will want to have a few years left over to sign another huge contract. He is an RFA so he won't be getting what he could make if he was a UFA and we just hope no other team offer sheets him.
Heddy is the MVP of D. Really is that heart and soul back there and there aren't too many people in the league that can do that. D are paid less than forwards generally though and I think he will be 7-8m for 8 year range. And that will be a steal for us. He can't use too much leverage against us since he doesn't have any awards (yet) so we might be able to get him a little cheaper than what an open market would be.
Bish I am not sure what we do. I think we have to see how the game goes tomorrow and how everything else settles. Vasy is a great goal tender but who knows if he will be ready for us on a nightly basis. He is right now no doubt, but need it for a whole season as well. With the expansion as well I really can't say what I would be willing to do for him.
Jo is going to be on a bridge deal much like what Palat, killer, and Tyjo are on. It won't be a significant raise from what his cap hit is through bonuses right now anyways.
Palat is a work horse and a leader on the team. He will get a raise. Im thinking 5.5-6.5 for 6 years. He had a down season but so has everyone else on the team leading into the playoffs. Start to wonder if fatigue set in a bit more for him and Johnson. Playing in 2 straight ahl finals, then next year in the nhl and playing in the world championships which is as many games as the nhl playoffs. Palat played Olympics that year too. Then follow it up with NHL stanley cup final and another year in the conference final. These guys don't know what summers are.
Johnson will be getting a raise. Very good last year and excellent in playoffs but unfortunately broke his wrist. He said it was a tough summer of training since that bone is the slowest healing bone in the body. I hope no one was expecting him to come back and do the same right away, but he did perform worst than what I thought personally. He had the one other injury that he had said it was just a fluke thing as well so I am not too worried like all of you of injury concerns. Again look at all the hockey he has played since junior and tell me how many games he has actually missed do to it. He has picked it up this playoffs, I see people saying he is feeding off kuch but you have to think too he is helping kuch its a two way street. The question is though will he continue to get better or plateau. Personally I think he gets back to where he was after some proper rest and training. I see him getting the same kind of deal as Palat. He is a center so he may get a bit more though just because thats how the market goes but who knows. So 5.5-7 range for 6 year
Killorn is a guy I feel should be a must on our a team. You need players like him who can fill any hole in a lineup. I just don't know what he is worth or what he would want. I would like to do a 4m 4 year. I think that would be perfect for what he brings. Would he do that? I don't know there are other less qualified guys going to UFA making way more than that.
To me though this is our main core. Feel free to agree or disagree after all isn't that what this all about? And try and keep in mind that when we are discussing this its not a oh he had a bad game x games ago so he will never be that good. On average I think this is what they are worth
By the looks of it you would think that Stammer is going to be gone. Kuch, Heddy, Bish, Jo, Palat, Johnson, Killorn, are not necessarily more valuable for the price they can be seen as such. Stammer is a great player I wish he could always be on our team but unless he decides he wants less and makes everyone else on the team take less as well then I just don't see it happening. So for what those guys should get is really whats up in the air.
Kuch is the MVP of forward group. He is a guy that we need. Im thinking like most of you 6-7m for 6-8 yr term. It'll be interesting if he wants the 8 years now or if he will want to have a few years left over to sign another huge contract. He is an RFA so he won't be getting what he could make if he was a UFA and we just hope no other team offer sheets him.
Heddy is the MVP of D. Really is that heart and soul back there and there aren't too many people in the league that can do that. D are paid less than forwards generally though and I think he will be 7-8m for 8 year range. And that will be a steal for us. He can't use too much leverage against us since he doesn't have any awards (yet) so we might be able to get him a little cheaper than what an open market would be.
Bish I am not sure what we do. I think we have to see how the game goes tomorrow and how everything else settles. Vasy is a great goal tender but who knows if he will be ready for us on a nightly basis. He is right now no doubt, but need it for a whole season as well. With the expansion as well I really can't say what I would be willing to do for him.
Jo is going to be on a bridge deal much like what Palat, killer, and Tyjo are on. It won't be a significant raise from what his cap hit is through bonuses right now anyways.
Palat is a work horse and a leader on the team. He will get a raise. Im thinking 5.5-6.5 for 6 years. He had a down season but so has everyone else on the team leading into the playoffs. Start to wonder if fatigue set in a bit more for him and Johnson. Playing in 2 straight ahl finals, then next year in the nhl and playing in the world championships which is as many games as the nhl playoffs. Palat played Olympics that year too. Then follow it up with NHL stanley cup final and another year in the conference final. These guys don't know what summers are.
Johnson will be getting a raise. Very good last year and excellent in playoffs but unfortunately broke his wrist. He said it was a tough summer of training since that bone is the slowest healing bone in the body. I hope no one was expecting him to come back and do the same right away, but he did perform worst than what I thought personally. He had the one other injury that he had said it was just a fluke thing as well so I am not too worried like all of you of injury concerns. Again look at all the hockey he has played since junior and tell me how many games he has actually missed do to it. He has picked it up this playoffs, I see people saying he is feeding off kuch but you have to think too he is helping kuch its a two way street. The question is though will he continue to get better or plateau. Personally I think he gets back to where he was after some proper rest and training. I see him getting the same kind of deal as Palat. He is a center so he may get a bit more though just because thats how the market goes but who knows. So 5.5-7 range for 6 year
Killorn is a guy I feel should be a must on our a team. You need players like him who can fill any hole in a lineup. I just don't know what he is worth or what he would want. I would like to do a 4m 4 year. I think that would be perfect for what he brings. Would he do that? I don't know there are other less qualified guys going to UFA making way more than that.
To me though this is our main core. Feel free to agree or disagree after all isn't that what this all about? And try and keep in mind that when we are discussing this its not a oh he had a bad game x games ago so he will never be that good. On average I think this is what they are worth
Disagree on Drouin. If his next season is anything like his postseason has been he's going to expect to get paid. He doesn't strike me as the type to take a discount to help the team either - if anything his expectations will be above what is reasonable. And while we do control him, we also want him happy and productive. So I see him getting at least $5M on his next deal.
If he has a big season he'll probably be expecting Kucherov money, at which point we explain that he's only done it once and needs to show that he can do it again before we give him that sort of contract, and then we compromise with a one or two year deal at $5M per. We keep him at least reasonably affordable for a little while longer and avoid overpaying him too soon, and he gets a substantial increase in salary with the opportunity for another good-sized raise in a year or two if he performs at a high level. That's my prediction at least.
If he has a big season he'll probably be expecting Kucherov money, at which point we explain that he's only done it once and needs to show that he can do it again before we give him that sort of contract, and then we compromise with a one or two year deal at $5M per. We keep him at least reasonably affordable for a little while longer and avoid overpaying him too soon, and he gets a substantial increase in salary with the opportunity for another good-sized raise in a year or two if he performs at a high level. That's my prediction at least.
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dbieon12
Vinik-Brisebois-Cooper
- Jul 22, 2010
- 5,505
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That will be highly dependent on what his numbers are next year. If it were me, I'd weigh next season very heavily.
If he plays 75+ games and scores 25 goals with 35 assists, then we can talk $5M.
If he's closer to 75+ games and scores 17 goals with 29 assists, then we are talking $3.75M to $4.25M.
It's definitely dependent on what he does next season. But Drouin is not the sort of person who understands the concept of paying his dues. Say he outscores Palat next season: if Palat gets $5M on his next deal, Drouin's going to expect that too. Never mind that Palat has multiple years of quality numbers and is a far better defensive forward. So unless he has a bad year signing Drouin to an affordable bridge deal like the sort Johnson and Palat had is going to be difficult without souring the relationship.
And this is a prime example of where stats can sometimes be misleading. He may have 7 points in this series but outside of 10 minutes he's been terrible. If anybody disagrees with this their obviously just reading the stat line the next day and not actually watching the games. If it wasn't for Vasilevskiy bailing him out after his gaff in game 5, this series would be over.
Huh? Kucherov has 7 points and Johnson 4 in the series. Crosby has 5 points and Malkin 4 points. Not sure how they packed it in? We aren't getting the secondary scoring outside of Boyle we need to win.
This is a prime example of the stat sheet not acting as a true reflection. If you haven't been watching the games and just checked the newspaper the next morning you'd swear to god Kucherov is having a career series. With the exception of a 10 minute window, both Kucherov and Johnson have been playing well under par this series. Not only have they been invisible for the most part but they've also, uncharacteristically, looked dreadful at times.
Same thing last year. Their play severely degraded in the ECF and SCF from the earlier rounds.
I'm glad you brought up Crosby and Malkin - another example of the stat sheet not acting as a true reflection. Crosby's been a thousand times better than Malkin this series yet, he only has one more point. Kucherov actually has 2 more points than Crosby and their play isn't even comparable in this series.
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A lot of this is accurate. Although, there should be something said about Kucherov's ability to be clutch and put the puck in the net.
I agree more on Johnson. Other than the points, he really has not played well most of the time. Same with Palat. Guys like Drouin, Boyle and Killorn have outplayed them.
They haven't been great but the entire team has been poor this series. They're still producing while almost everyone else isn't.
How did their play deteriorate in the ECF last year? Johnson had 9 points and Kucherov 8. The finals wasn't great but Johnson was hurt and Chicago shut everyone down. They can't score 10 points every series it's impossible thus day and age.
Crosby hasn't been that much better than Kucherov, all 4 of them haven't been that good. Each has had small moments of brilliance. Kucherov's only good 10 minutes as you say has been the best 10 minutes any of them have had.
