Salary Cap: Official Cap Hell / Contracts Thread

[HoseEmDown]

Once again, please show me where I said anything about Stamkos in last years playoffs. This is about Kucherov and Johnson packing it in when it matters most for the second year in a row.

For the record, you're not entirely correct on Stamkos and the first three rounds last year. I don't know if you watched the Rangers series last year (I can only assume you never) but Stamkos was the best player in it. You're right about rounds one, two and the SCF but he was great in the ECF.

You keep talking about how Kucherov and Johnson pack it in but you give Stamkos a pass. Why do they get all the criticism but nobody else does?

Being great in one round is nice but like you say the finals is the most important and he didn't bring it. He was upstaged by a guy with a broken wrist.

 

[MattM92]

Once again, please show me where I said anything about Stamkos in last years playoffs. This is about Kucherov and Johnson packing it in when it matters most for the second year in a row.

For the record, you're not entirely correct on Stamkos and the first three rounds last year. I don't know if you watched the Rangers series last year (I can only assume you never) but Stamkos was the best player in it. You're right about rounds one, two and the SCF but he was great in the ECF.

I actually did watch every game of the playoffs last year. Including the ECF. Yes, Stamkos was a factor, but I certainly wouldn't say he had a greater impact than Johnson or Kucherov.

Stamkos had 4 goals and 7 points in 7 games.

Kucherov had 3 goals and 8 points in 7 games.

Johnson had 4 goals and 9 points in 7 games.

Sure, Stamkos threw that huge hit on Hayes and was really, really good that series, but let's not write a narrative that TJ and Kuch packed it in. I would say Kuch's OT game winner had a greater impact on that series than anything Stamkos did. Same with Johnson's hat trick in game 2.

And we keep bringing up Stamkos because you're defending him by saying 9 and 86 "pack it in" in the playoffs. That simply isn't true and there is no web you can weave that will make it true. The FACT is that Johnson and Kucherov have had more playoff success in the past 2 years than Stamkos has had in 4.

I already know you're going to accuse me of stat watching so there really is no need to carry on this argument.

 

[tjs*]

That's a confusing question, I'll try to answer it. Must signs are Hedman and Kucherov, our two best players outside of Bishop. They also happen to be, outside of the Pittsburgh series, two who also bring it in the playoffs.

I know the question specified two players but based on what we saw this postseason I'd put Drouin on that list. He was the most consistently dangerous player on the team offensively. Now we don't know if he can replicate that performance or how much of it may have been due to him being fresh from his suspension, but from what we've seen so far the guy has been a beast in the playoffs.

 

[DFC]

I know the question specified two players but based on what we saw this postseason I'd put Drouin on that list. He was the most consistently dangerous player on the team offensively. Now we don't know if he can replicate that performance or how much of it may have been due to him being fresh from his suspension, but from what we've seen so far the guy has been a beast in the playoffs.

Drouin was the only guy who's offense didn't buckle vs. Pittsburgh. He had some major defensive blunders, but that goes with the territory of a guy who's a threat to produce every single game.

 

[Engineer]

 

[The Macho King]

That's not bad - think we had more last year.

 

[These Are The Days]

I used my go to site of nhl numbers and it says we've got about $21 million and change. That's an accurate number right? If so then that's pretty damn ugly and we're gonna need at least $5 million more to make reasonable deals for Kucherov, Stamkos and Killorn alone.

 

[Cigar City]

I miss Cap Geek.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I used my go to site of nhl numbers and it says we've got about $21 million and change. That's an accurate number right? If so then that's pretty damn ugly and we're gonna need at least $5 million more to make reasonable deals for Kucherov, Stamkos and Killorn alone.

capfriendly, general fanager, sportrac are right or close to it I hope

 

[LightningStrikes]

 

[These Are The Days]

I definitely don't see the downside of a buyout. Any retention in a trade is probably going to be about that much. Not unless SFY talks them into us only retaining something like $1.5 million over those 2 years. Then it's a win-win.

 

[Leonardo87]

Wow to keep nearly 2 million on the book of dead cap space for the next 4 seasons? Really have to explore all trade options even if we have to package Carle or even retain for less years to get rid of him. Plus, he has a NTC, which limits the amount of teams Yzerman can do business with.

 

[Todd1a]

I used my go to site of nhl numbers and it says we've got about $21 million and change. That's an accurate number right? If so then that's pretty damn ugly and we're gonna need at least $5 million more to make reasonable deals for Kucherov, Stamkos and Killorn alone.

We got 21 million in space if
The cap goes up to 74 million. Yzerman judging his press conference was
Concerned on the cap I don't think he thinks it will go up
To 74 million. He might be thinking it stays the same or
Goes up to 72 million.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Wow to keep nearly 2 million on the book of dead cap space for the next 4 seasons? Really have to explore all trade options even if we have to package Carle or even retain for less years to get rid of him. Plus, he has a NTC, which limits the amount of teams Yzerman can do business with.

Agree but buyout isn't bad. Just have 2 mil of dead cap space for 4 years. Could be worse.

 

[AimForTopCheddar]

I rather have 4 years of 1.8 then 2 years of 5.5M when the RFA/Bridge contracts need to be extended. Its all gonna be dead cap space anyways because its Carle.

 

[TampaBoltz]

We got 21 million in space if
The cap goes up to 74 million. Yzerman judging his press conference was
Concerned on the cap I don't think he thinks it will go up
To 74 million. He might be thinking it stays the same or
Goes up to 72 million.

Yes, but that's only for 35 players. You still need to sign Kuch, Killorn, Brown(or similar replacement), Vladdy, Paq(or similar replacement $1.5M) Jam, Nest. and Stamkos. So, even if you get some average 3rd and 4th line replacement for $1.5M it still would be in the 27M area that we need. Now, if we don't sign Stamkos, trade Bishop, trade Flip or trade or buyout Carle, then things are different. If we had a couple of ELC forwards, that would really help but I don't know if Richard or Erne are ready. But, that $1.8 for 4 years is a big deal, especially if we have to buyout Callahan at some point.

 

[dbieon12]

Wow to keep nearly 2 million on the book of dead cap space for the next 4 seasons? Really have to explore all trade options even if we have to package Carle or even retain for less years to get rid of him. Plus, he has a NTC, which limits the amount of teams Yzerman can do business with.

A scratched defenseman who couldn't even hold on to his bottom pairing role because a rookie outplayed him during a playoff run won't have much value. Put a $5M price tag on it and you'll get laughed at. Even if we trade him we'll eat 1M of his salary as part of the deal anyway.

He needs to be gone. Explore trades but we're probably getting stuck with a partial cap hit either way.

 

[TampaBoltz]

A scratched defenseman who couldn't even hold on to his bottom pairing role because a rookie outplayed him during a playoff run won't have much value. Put a $5M price tag on it and you'll get laughed at. Even if we trade him we'll eat 1M of his salary as part of the deal anyway.

He needs to be gone. Explore trades but we're probably getting stuck with a partial cap hit either way.

You missed the point. If we retained 2M for 2 years for 4M of dead cap money. That is better that $7.33M if we buy out. If we trade Bishop and get some high picks, I wouldn't be opposed to using a 2nd round pick to lessen the retained amount.

 

[The Macho King]

If Yzerman can't flip a trade (or a trade for an under 27 player he can buyout at 1/3 instead of 2/3), then we have to buy him out. There is no debate on that.

 

[These Are The Days]

I rather have 4 years of 1.8 then 2 years of 5.5M when the RFA/Bridge contracts need to be extended. Its all gonna be dead cap space anyways because its Carle.

Exactly. No matter what we do we're gonna be stuck with a tab. The goal just needs to be to get it as low as possible.

 

[tjs*]

You missed the point. If we retained 2M for 2 years for 4M of dead cap money. That is better that $7.33M if we buy out. If we trade Bishop and get some high picks, I wouldn't be opposed to using a 2nd round pick to lessen the retained amount.

It's not the total amount of retention that matters so much as it is the amount per year. 2017 is when everybody who matters is up for an extention, and our ability to resign our key players will be based almost entirely on the amount of cap space we have in that year. Minimizing the duration of the dead money is only useful if we have a good candidate for a bridge deal and we don't have one. Hedman's going to cash in, Kucherov should be signed to as long a term as he'll agree to, Johnson, Palat, and Killorn are going to get their raises, and assuming Drouin has a good season in both production and attitude we'd be better served giving him a serious deal rather than try to go cheap on him and sour what looks to be an improving relationship. So our focus when it comes to cap savings needs to be on 2017.

 

[PKSpecialist]

Oiler's fan coming here in peace with a trade proposal to help you save some money.

Just want to gauge Lightning fan's thoughts, have no intent on starting an argument here.

Tampa Bay trade Matt Carle and Anthony DeAngelo to the Oilers for Mark Fayne, David Musil and 3rd round pick (62nd overall).

Basically this trade boils down to a $1.8 million per season savings for the Lightning over the next two years, while swapping DeAngelo for Musil and a 3rd round pick. Fayne and Carle's contracts both run out at the same time, but Fayne is cheaper. The Lightning would still have the opportunity to buy Fayne out if that is what they want to do, but the savings would be greater.

Again, not going to argue value, just here to gauge how important the cap space is for you.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Oiler's fan coming here in peace with a trade proposal to help you save some money.

Just want to gauge Lightning fan's thoughts, have no intent on starting an argument here.

Tampa Bay trade Matt Carle and Anthony DeAngelo to the Oilers for Mark Fayne, David Musil and 3rd round pick (62nd overall).

Basically this trade boils down to a $1.8 million per season savings for the Lightning over the next two years, while swapping DeAngelo for Musil and a 3rd round pick. Fayne and Carle's contracts both run out at the same time, but Fayne is cheaper. The Lightning would still have the opportunity to buy Fayne out if that is what they want to do, but the savings would be greater.

Again, not going to argue value, just here to gauge how important the cap space is for you.

There really isn't any cap savings in this deal. Buying out Carle frees up 3.7 in cap space and Fayne makes 3.6. If we were to but Fayne out his hit would be 1.3 for 2 years then 1.2 so a slight savings. Musil is waiver eligible next year and a LD so most likely he's waived so he has no value and the 3rd doesn't do anything. So in short we aren't trading DeAngelo for a 3rd and very minimal cap savings.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Oiler's fan coming here in peace with a trade proposal to help you save some money.

Just want to gauge Lightning fan's thoughts, have no intent on starting an argument here.

Tampa Bay trade Matt Carle and Anthony DeAngelo to the Oilers for Mark Fayne, David Musil and 3rd round pick (62nd overall).

Basically this trade boils down to a $1.8 million per season savings for the Lightning over the next two years, while swapping DeAngelo for Musil and a 3rd round pick. Fayne and Carle's contracts both run out at the same time, but Fayne is cheaper. The Lightning would still have the opportunity to buy Fayne out if that is what they want to do, but the savings would be greater.

Again, not going to argue value, just here to gauge how important the cap space is for you.

first we would be lying if said cap space doesnt matter to us.

but but but we are not going to get bent over to help your team.

hopefully that kinda handles this cause this is an atrocious offer

if steve yzerman cannot do better he should not be in charge

thankfully he is ... i mean you want us to take fayne basically equal to carle lose deangelo who is only guy not just a dman but only guy to even sniff mcdavids numbers two years ago?

Steve Yzerman will get things done he does not need to move true superstar assets to make that happen we do have two years. Yep might be hard at times but we will not be getting robbed while doing so

 

[PKSpecialist]

There really isn't any cap savings in this deal. Buying out Carle frees up 3.7 in cap space and Fayne makes 3.6. If we were to but Fayne out his hit would be 1.3 for 2 years then 1.2 so a slight savings. Musil is waiver eligible next year and a LD so most likely he's waived so he has no value and the 3rd doesn't do anything. So in short we aren't trading DeAngelo for a 3rd and very minimal cap savings.

Just an add to your comment. If the intentions are to buyout Carle, but not buy out Fayne, the cap hit is negligible between the two players for two years, but substantial in years 3 and 4 when Fayne comes off the books. However, remember that if you buy out Carle his roster spot needs to be filled, and that means paying someone basically $1 million per. So there is still a @ $1.1 million savings if you keep Fayne for the duration of his contract(depending on how expensive Carle's replacement would be). If you make the deal and buyout Fayne, the savings are less, more like an average of $550,000 per season for 4 years.