Office of Strategic Planning - Tank Talk 2.0

[Victorious Secret]

I don't get the want for the perpetual tank.

You get that much losing ingrained into a franchise, it's hell to get out of it.

I don't think it's perpetual tank, because we've never had a full tank, even for a season. Just the want to have a high pick talent.

This year, pretty clear we don't have a great team and it doesn't pay to be mediocre.

 

[TaLoN]

I don't think it's perpetual tank, because we've never had a full tank for even a season. Just the want to have a high pick talent.

This year, pretty clear we don't have a great team and it doesn't pay to be mediocre.

The post I quoted is already talking about tanking NEXT year too

 

[AKL]

The post I quoted is already talking about tanking NEXT year too

Well unless you think Rossi and Boldy are going to be first line players and Guerin manages to get another top 6 center without giving up Fiala, Kaprizov or the two aforementioned prospects, we're probably not going to be much better next season.

 

[keppel146]

I don't get the want for the perpetual tank.

You get that much losing ingrained into a franchise, it's hell to get out of it.

The roster is going to get overhauled anyway, so my thoughts are—why not? ‘22 should be very deep at the top. With how many unskilled roster players we have, this squad is ridiculous. My hope as a fan now is not the next 2-3 years, which yes is kind of sad, but it’s the truth. As everyone knows, including BG, the best way to build your team is through the draft, and if we can add another blue chip, by all means let’s do it.

 

[Prior]

In theory, they are going to have a couple of sound prospects after this draft.

At some point soon though, they are going to need to get another center that can play with Fiala and Kaprizov before their prime scoring years are wasted. Going into a multi-year tailspin puts this team squarely out of their windows so you would need to question if you really want to sign one/both long term if that is direction you see for the franchise.

 

[TaLoN]

Well unless you think Rossi and Boldy are going to be first line players and Guerin manages to get another top 6 center without giving up Fiala, Kaprizov or the two aforementioned prospects, we're probably not going to be much better next season.

It wouldn't take much to be better next season.

If you're asking if I think they will be cup contenders, of course not. That doesn't mean they'll be terrible either.

The roster is going to get overhauled anyway, so my thoughts are—why not?

Don't expect Kap to want to stay here then.

 

[AKL]

It wouldn't take much to be better next season.

If you're asking if I think they will be cup contenders, of course not. That doesn't mean they'll be terrible either.

Yeah it might not take much to be better than this season, but it'll take a lot to be good. And if you're not going to be good, you get better rewards for being bad.

I think we have a decent foundation, but until Rossi proves he can be a 1C, we still need one, and we'll need a 1D too. The next couple years/drafts could see us get both of those if we're lucky, but you can also strategically make it easier to get lucky too.

 

[keppel146]

As bad as it sounds, I think we could really benefit long term from just one more year of being towards the bottom.

 

[TaLoN]

Yeah it might not take much to be better than this season, but it'll take a lot to be good. And if you're not going to be good, you get better rewards for being bad.

I think we have a decent foundation, but until Rossi proves he can be a 1C, we still need one, and we'll need a 1D too. The next couple years/drafts could see us get both of those if we're lucky, but you can also strategically make it easier to get lucky too.

Yeah, but if you want our good young talent we have now to want to keep playing here, you better be trying be good.

Trying to be bad and tanking? He'll want out ASAP.

I get that we're bad now... that's reality. That doesn't mean that will be next year's reality and we shouldn't WANT it to be at this point either.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It is possible to "strategically plan" without "tanking".

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Being awful next year and getting a player like Wright/Lambert/Savoie would be incredible

 

[Prior]

For those wanting this to be a multi-year rebuild, can you explain why we shouldn’t be looking to deal one or both of Fiala/Kaprizov in that case?

Reality is, you’re not getting out of some of the deals on this team, there’s no reason to give out two more if you want to go the other direction. They would return the assets you want as well. By the time players you are drafting in a rebuild reach the NHL, they are in their late twenties and on the downswing of their scoring trajectory.

 

[keppel146]

Yeah, but if you want our good young talent we have now to want to keep playing here, you better be trying be good.

Trying to be bad and tanking? He'll want out ASAP.

I get that we're bad now... that's reality. That doesn't mean that will be next year's reality and we shouldn't WANT it to be at this point either.

With this roster, I just don’t see how BG can do it in one year. Therefore, the idea of being bad in a great draft.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

For those wanting this to be a multi-year rebuild, can you explain why we shouldn’t be looking to deal one or both of Fiala/Kaprizov in that case?

Reality is, you’re not getting out of some of the deals on this team, there’s no reason to give out two more if you want to go the other direction. They would return the assets you want as well. By the time players you are drafting in a rebuild reach the NHL, they are in their late twenties and on the downswing of their scoring trajectory.

because they’re 23 and 24 not 30 and 31?

 

[AKL]

It is possible to "strategically plan" without "tanking".

Sure but everyone is operating on different definitions of those terms so having a conversation about it without establishing what the definitions are is a mess.

 

[Spurgeon]

Tanking next year makes no sense to me. The defense is built to win-now and will likely be adding Addison/Menell next season. Our winger group is very talented and will be adding Boldy. Our centers should be better with Rossi + FA signings.

I have a feeling that BG is going to find a way to protect both Dumba and Greenway in the ED, so I don’t think we’re going to lose a significant piece there.

Next season:

Zucc - Rossi - Fiala
Greenway - Ek - Kap
Boldy - X - X
Parise - Sturm - Hartman

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba
Soucy - Addison/Menell

That team looks pretty damn solid to me. Danault would fit in really well into one of those vacancies IMO. Then it’s just a matter of finding a RW. Even if they don’t make any significant FA acquisitions, they’re not going to be anywhere near a bottom 10 team.

 

[Prior]

because they’re 23 and 24 not 30 and 31?

Most any metric points to goal scoring declining after 26 unless you are talking about high level, star caliber players. Moreover, you pay more for less production as well.

 

[AKL]

Tanking next year makes no sense to me. The defense is built to win-now and will likely be adding Addison/Menell next season. Our winger group is very talented and will be adding Boldy. Our centers should be better with Rossi + FA signings.

I have a feeling that BG is going to find a way to protect both Dumba and Greenway in the ED, so I don’t think we’re going to lose a significant piece there.

Next season:

Zucc - Rossi - Fiala
Greenway - Ek - Kap
Boldy - X - X
Parise - Sturm - Hartman

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba
Soucy - Addison/Menell

That team looks pretty damn solid to me. Danault would fit in really well into one of those vacancies IMO. Then it’s just a matter of finding a RW. Even if they don’t make any significant FA acquisitions, they’re not going to be anywhere near a bottom 10 team.

That team looks like a fringe playoff team, sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm also very curious what you gave Seattle to convince them to take Foligno over Dumba or Greenway.

 

[keppel146]

Idk if you can expect 2 rookies to change this forward group. Look at Laf for example, he’s not exactly lighting it up on the Rangers. The nhl is tough. All I know is BG has some decisions to make.

 

[2Pair]

Guerin will make a fairly big play for a center between now and the start of next season. I guess that still doesn't rule out the accidental tank if he strikes out on his deal.

 

[Spurgeon]

That team looks like a fringe playoff team, sorry to burst your bubble.

Thats my entire point though. That roster is close to what we’re going into next season with, regardless of any moves. They’re not going to be a basement-dweller and there’s very few moves you could make to “tank”.

And that roster is going to get better over time. Fiala, Kap, Ek, Greenway, Rossi, and Boldy are a pretty solid forward group to build around. Not to mention our prospect pool and 2 2021 1st round picks. With an established defense and strong goaltending, they can make a run and be a consistently good team for quite a while.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Most any metric points to goal scoring declining after 26 unless you are talking about high level, star caliber players. Moreover, you pay more for less production as well.

It'd be a good thing then to add a couple high potential guys that'll be in their 20-23 year old seasons, to go along with Rossi/Boldy who will be 23-25 year old seasons, to supplemental Kaprizov and Fiala in their 27-29 year old seasons.

 

[Prior]

I think discussions around the overall direction of the team and stepping the clock back are very warranted. Given the contracts that are here, the team is not going to find it’s way out of them easily and those players aren’t going to take them to the heights we would like.

Wanting that with this team is reasonable. Just know that trumpeting that direction while also missing that Fiala and/or Kaprizov are pieces that will need to be moved to accomplish what you would like is shortsighted in my view.

 

[Spurgeon]

That team looks like a fringe playoff team, sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm also very curious what you gave Seattle to convince them to take Foligno over Dumba or Greenway.

Parise waiving his NMC is something I see happening. He wants to win a Cup and him waiving his NMC makes this team better throughout his remaining tenure.

 

[Taylor26]

Tanking next year makes no sense to me. The defense is built to win-now and will likely be adding Addison/Menell next season. Our winger group is very talented and will be adding Boldy. Our centers should be better with Rossi + FA signings.

I have a feeling that BG is going to find a way to protect both Dumba and Greenway in the ED, so I don’t think we’re going to lose a significant piece there.

Next season:

Zucc - Rossi - Fiala
Greenway - Ek - Kap
Boldy - X - X
Parise - Sturm - Hartman

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba
Soucy - Addison/Menell

That team looks pretty damn solid to me. Danault would fit in really well into one of those vacancies IMO. Then it’s just a matter of finding a RW. Even if they don’t make any significant FA acquisitions, they’re not going to be anywhere near a bottom 10 team.

Who are we losing to expansion though?