Off season training players & prospects!!!
- Thread starter rockinghockey
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nexttothemoon
and again...
I hate to bring up Gagner again... but he's a decent example. After 7 years in the NHL, he really didn't develop a lot more physicality, defensive awareness, faceoff ability, skating speed etc.
No doubt Sam improved somewhat (marginally) in each of those areas from his 18 year old season BUT markedly so? I couldn't really point to results on the ice that would demonstrate he benefited from years of development.
Now some will say Gagner was rushed and that ruined his development and set him back permanently and an extra year or two in Junior would have benefited him.
That's possible to a degree but I honestly don't see how that would have made him, stronger, faster, better defensively, better on faceoffs playing vs 17/18/19 year old junior competition for another year or two.
It may have helped his confidence to come into the NHL as a 19/20 year old with one or two more dominating Junior years under his belt... but I think the realities of the NHL game... faster, more physical, and more demanding of solid defensive awareness especially at the centre position... would have hit Gagner just the same as a 20 year old rookie as it did as an 18 year old.
Long story short for me... if a player "has it"... they will make it. If they don't they won't.
Top 3 picks in this era are usually players that have been analyzed and scrutinized to the nth degree. Literally hundreds of scouts are assessing these players and their weaknesses and strengths are fairly widely known. These top ranked prospects are probably better prepared than ever before as well... modern training/conditioning/strength/skating programs are used at the junior levels and in the off-season and specifically in the case of Draisaitl his father is an experienced professional hockey player AND coach. He's no doubt very serious and dedicated to doing things the right way and not naive or underestimating the challenges ahead of him.
No doubt Draisaitl will have his struggles and issues as a rookie but I personally don't view it as a massive mistake or damaging if he's allowed to play this season with the Oilers instead of going back to Juniors.
No doubt Sam improved somewhat (marginally) in each of those areas from his 18 year old season BUT markedly so? I couldn't really point to results on the ice that would demonstrate he benefited from years of development.
Now some will say Gagner was rushed and that ruined his development and set him back permanently and an extra year or two in Junior would have benefited him.
That's possible to a degree but I honestly don't see how that would have made him, stronger, faster, better defensively, better on faceoffs playing vs 17/18/19 year old junior competition for another year or two.
It may have helped his confidence to come into the NHL as a 19/20 year old with one or two more dominating Junior years under his belt... but I think the realities of the NHL game... faster, more physical, and more demanding of solid defensive awareness especially at the centre position... would have hit Gagner just the same as a 20 year old rookie as it did as an 18 year old.
Long story short for me... if a player "has it"... they will make it. If they don't they won't.
Top 3 picks in this era are usually players that have been analyzed and scrutinized to the nth degree. Literally hundreds of scouts are assessing these players and their weaknesses and strengths are fairly widely known. These top ranked prospects are probably better prepared than ever before as well... modern training/conditioning/strength/skating programs are used at the junior levels and in the off-season and specifically in the case of Draisaitl his father is an experienced professional hockey player AND coach. He's no doubt very serious and dedicated to doing things the right way and not naive or underestimating the challenges ahead of him.
No doubt Draisaitl will have his struggles and issues as a rookie but I personally don't view it as a massive mistake or damaging if he's allowed to play this season with the Oilers instead of going back to Juniors.
nexttothemoon
and again...
I do agree with you on this.
I think "sheltering" a player is somewhat of a misnomer. There's really nowhere for these players to hide out there... especially in the tough Western conference.
You can't really "hide" a player in the lineup when half the games are on the road and opposing coaches are obviously going to line match to take advantage of the weakest players in the lineup.
Sticking a player on the 4th line and limiting them to Gazdic type minutes (5 or less per game) is about the only true sheltering a player can have... but that's not really beneficial to their development either. They need to play decent minutes and need to go through the learning curve (steep as it may be) to improve and get used to the NHL pace and quality of opposition.
It is what it is... a player playing their rookie year will have ups and downs... struggles and issues... unless they are a Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin type talent.
What are some of you talking about regarding Nuge?
At the year end interviews Eakins and MacT said Nuge was the person to most buy into Eakins fitness regimen out of all the kids. MacT specifically said that Nuge weighed more at the end of the year (190 pounds) than at the beginning. He said that it was pretty amazing considering Nuge had always lost 10-15 pounds by the end of the season previously. MacT went on to say that maybe Nuge bought in too much and concentrated to much about his weight and that it affected his game. He thought Nuge was learning to play with his new frame by the end but that Nuge talked about feeling less explosive.
At the year end interviews Eakins and MacT said Nuge was the person to most buy into Eakins fitness regimen out of all the kids. MacT specifically said that Nuge weighed more at the end of the year (190 pounds) than at the beginning. He said that it was pretty amazing considering Nuge had always lost 10-15 pounds by the end of the season previously. MacT went on to say that maybe Nuge bought in too much and concentrated to much about his weight and that it affected his game. He thought Nuge was learning to play with his new frame by the end but that Nuge talked about feeling less explosive.
Oiltankjob Fail
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- Feb 10, 2013
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Nuge by far was at his best as a rookie skinny elusive with great agility, I have noticed as he bulks up his agility has suffered. I think its a trade off by bulking up you gain strength but lose speed and agility .
McspOiler
Registered User
Stauffer has said quite a few times that nuge put on close to 15 lbs during the season under Eakins and that it slowed him down. So no surprise he's working on his legs and skating
ok.Lets get everyone on the Eakins fitness program. You are joking right? Nuge was a shadow of himself by the end of the season. Maybe it was the 2 or 3 games at close to 28 mins a game that the fitness guru made him play to start the season after zero exhibitions games and shoulder rehab to boot. Now thats a fitness program!
Mr Positive
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That RNH put that weight on during the season is crazy. I would think that gaining weight should be an offseason thing, and during the season you just maintain it.
I wonder if we were tanking last season. Seriously. Maybe MacT met with Eakins and said that we had one more piece left to draft. With Tambellini it felt like we were legitimately terrible. I don't get quite that feeling with last season. There were some baffling decisions that only make sense if you view them as intentionally self destructive.
Just to be clear though: even if we were just that terrible and misguided, I still feel like lessons were learned. I didn't like Eakins, but keeping him could be good especially with Ramsay to keep him in check.
I wonder if we were tanking last season. Seriously. Maybe MacT met with Eakins and said that we had one more piece left to draft. With Tambellini it felt like we were legitimately terrible. I don't get quite that feeling with last season. There were some baffling decisions that only make sense if you view them as intentionally self destructive.
Just to be clear though: even if we were just that terrible and misguided, I still feel like lessons were learned. I didn't like Eakins, but keeping him could be good especially with Ramsay to keep him in check.
Mr Positive
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I don't think that being heavier wrecked RNH. It's that he put on that weight during the season. It had to have wrecked his stamina and endurance. Hopefully this will make RNH into a monster next season. (I hope)
When you put on 10 or 15lbs there is a hug difference in your speed and endurance. That is a lot of extra weight to get use to all at once.
Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
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It would explain why at times he looked sluggish out there. His cardio was excellent at camp (2nd on the team IIRC) but when you add mass you need to add explosiveness as well or it just slows you down.
Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
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Yup, so he likely has to work on his explosiveness to at least get that part of his game up to snuff. IMO we need to keep him off of the PK for now as well. Expecting him to add a bunch of mass to his frame and then playing the ever loving hell out of him isn't really doing him a whole lot of favors.
nexttothemoon
and again...
I'd have ****canned Eakins just for his abusive treatment of RNH... yes abusive... in how many minutes he played him after coming back fresh into the lineup after surgery and playing him maximum minutes and then some.
Eakins is a mega tool and no doubt his egotistical ideas on training likely led (at least in part) to the regression we saw in RNH.
Bicycle boy should stick to his endurance races and leave the NHL head coaching job to someone who has a clue.
Eakins is a mega tool and no doubt his egotistical ideas on training likely led (at least in part) to the regression we saw in RNH.
Bicycle boy should stick to his endurance races and leave the NHL head coaching job to someone who has a clue.
Like you? Please...
The only thing worse than an armchair GM is an armchair coach.
nexttothemoon
and again...
Like you? Please...
By all means... support, praise and enjoy the masterful coaching that Eakins has delivered... you are as free to offer your opinions as I am on these FORUMS.
Oiltankjob Fail
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ChaoticOrange
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Saw a tweet today saying Nurse is up to 6'5, 208.
He is going to be an absolute force. I hope he makes the Oilers make some very tough decisions.
He is going to be an absolute force. I hope he makes the Oilers make some very tough decisions.
Aceboogie
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- Aug 25, 2012
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In the game yesterday he didnt even look that big on the ice. He looked very strong out there handling opposition easily on the boards, but still skated like he was 180. His ideal playing weight could be like 220 without losing a step.
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
- Mar 3, 2004
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This is an important development for both players but especially Yak.
This is the first indication that he has bonded with somebody on the team and I see that being a big positive in terms of his maturation and comfort level.
Yeah they are. Yak uploaded an instagram vid of him at those long stairs near the bridge ( I think) and Draisaitl was under him. Both worknig out together.
Aceboogie
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They all train at the Saville center (Yakimov, Drai, Yakupov, Ewanyk, Bunz)
Its pretty cool Drai and Yakimov stayed the entire summer to train in Edmonton, and Yakupov coming back early.
But yeah Drai and Yak seem to be good buds. Hopefully its translate to on ice chemistry as their games sync so well. Drai would be a perfect set up man for Yak
Stoneman89
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- Feb 8, 2008
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I'm confused. Draisatl is now buds with Yakupov? Or is it Yakimov? Too many "Yaks"involved.
I never once praised that he did a good job last year, but nice attempt at putting words in my mouth....it's a failure on your part with the reading comprehension though. I'll make it easier for you - to imply that you would know how to do the job better is asinine on an EPIC level. Read it slowly if it helps.
