Off-Season Thread II - Who cares.......

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Whaaat. I can't believe that deal just happened.

Ugh. Seeing Weber 8 times a year is going to be a nightmare.

 

[last_sd]

Weber for Subban? Doesn't Weber contract have huge recapture penalty?

 

[Reddwit]

This offseason is not shaping up like anything is going to change.

Stamkos will sign with another team and then Holland will load up on B level talent and try to keep this sinking ship afloat for another season, but i don't think it's gonna be enough to lose in the first round again. Wings probably miss the playoffs and end up drafting 10-12th overall. Gonna be brutal.

Depends on what you consider B talent. If you don't sign Stamkos, you can outbid everyone for Okposo. If you can get Okposo, you can afford to trade Nyquist. If you add Staal or Nielsen, then you can afford to trade Sheahan. If you get Vanek or Ladd, you can afford to trade Tatar. If you do all that, you can afford to trade all of Sheahan, Tatar, and Nyquist. Holland has the cap space to spend FA money to preemptively replace guys that he could use in a trade.

If Holland was really feeling the pressure, then he could go bonkers.

Lose out on Stamkos, sign Okposo (6.5x7), Vanek(3x2) and Staal(3x2).

Trade Nyquist + Sheahan for RNH + pick OR Tatar + Sheahan + Vitale for RNH
Trade Nyquist/Tatar + Pulkkinen/Jurco + 1st (lottery protected) or 2nd for Fowler
Trade Smith for 2nd and 4th.

The salary checks out.

Interestingly, you end up with a 1OA (RNH), a 2OA (Staal), a 5OA (Vanek), a 7OA (Okposo) and a 12OA (Fowler). At first blush, it seems like you're giving up a bunch of young talent, but you're trading a winger who will be 27 to start the season, a 25 year old winger, and a 24 year old center, for a 28 year old winger, a 24 year old defenseman, and a 23 year old center. You trade your youth from a position of strength for youth addressing a position of weakness.

You give up a 1st or 2nd, but you at least get a 2nd in return. You don't ruin your prospect pool and you get two veterans who can hold you over until you see what AA and Mantha can really do.

I realize this is a ton of movement, and unlikely to happen, but it does illustrate a whole host of possibilities that are the result of having a lot of cap space and signing placeholders.

 

[Retire91]

Haha anyone notice how slow HF boards is responding right now.

After some more though I am going to go out on a limb and say Oliers won that trade. I think Larson is going to fit in nicely and provide a lot more to the team then Hall was/would. I don't undervalue Hall he is a top 3 winger in the league when healthy but his style of game is hard on the body and the oil also don't need Hall. Larson has a lot more potential then I think people are giving him credit for.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Well, no Stamkos, and the price for defensemen just shot through the roof. Offseason over.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Well, no Stamkos, and the price for defensemen just shot through the roof. Offseason over.

We were never getting Subban or Weber and Larsson's value is sky high because he's 22 and on a great contract (still overpayment by Edmonton though).

Cam Fowler or even Shattenkirk is still not out of the question for us.

Okposo/Eriksson+Nielsen+Fowler/Shattenkirk would be a decent haul.

 

[Frk It]

Well, no Stamkos, and the price for defensemen just shot through the roof. Offseason over.

I keep telling myself this year can't get worse, and somehow I keep being wrong.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Subban for weber is atrocious for montreal, an older, more expensive dman

Stamkos deal is.amazing for tampa

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Dont worry about him Claypool, he is a walking poster board for depression. (all negative all the time forever)

you guys know the last team that took a playoff team (just like ours) and just burnt it to the ground on a rebuilding idea?....

Philadelphia.

I am not sure I want to follow their lead.

It ain't negativity. It's reality.

 

[steafo]

What is Edmonton doing?? I get they needed D help but I feel like there is more value to be had. I'm probably severely underestimating Larsson but I feel like Hall >>> Larsson.

Are they clearing cap room to ship Eberle++ for Shattenkirk? If so, that means Holland will have the rug swept out from under him twice in one offseason.

 

[Jkalapeno]

I just want to point out how unfair the salary cap is for teams in NY that have high income taxes and then how teams in Florida can have a smaller cap hit with the same amount of money going to players....

 

[Heaton]

It ain't negativity. It's reality.

Ken Holland with a grip full of cap space and no one good to sign is going to end up with the compounding issue of terrible contracts on this team.

 

[njx9]

Ugh. Here's hoping the obvious Staal and Nielsen deals don't extend too much past 2020, I guess.

Edit: and at least Montreal made themselves worse. Though, looking at our immediate future, we're more likely to compete with them for a lottery position than a playoff spot.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

It's time, guys. Let's rebuild. Don't prolong the pain with Staal or Nielsen. Don't go scorched earth, but let gravity take its course.

 

[Frk It]

Ken Holland with a grip full of cap space and no one good to sign is going to end up with the compounding issue of terrible contracts on this team.

Yup.

But cap space is awesome and how you win trades. Regardless of what you actually spend it on. So **** it.

 

[TheMule93]

If I were a Habs fan I'd want to kill myself wtf.

Not only is Subban better than Weber, but he's much younger. Again: wtf?

Too bad about Stamkos, staying there was probably the best way for him to win a cup though

Can't wait to see all the over-the-hill vets we sign

 

[Nemesis Prime]

I'd rather we burn it down now, tank for Patrick.

Otherwise we're just signing guys to continue the streak and not much more and it'll be a waste of space and a waste of a year.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

We are ****ed.

 

[RedWingzz]

Whaaat. I can't believe that deal just happened.

Ugh. Seeing Weber 8 times a year is going to be a nightmare.

Teams only play other teams in their division 4 or 5 times per year.

 

[Chance on Chance]

It's time, guys. Let's rebuild. Don't prolong the pain with Staal or Nielsen. Don't go scorched earth, but let gravity take its course.

Yup there's no rebuilding on the fly now

 

[Reddwit]

What is Edmonton doing?? I get they needed D help but I feel like there is more value to be had. I'm probably severely underestimating Larsson but I feel like Hall >>> Larsson.

Are they clearing cap room to ship Eberle++ for Shattenkirk? If so, that means Holland will have the rug swept out from under him twice in one offseason.

Larsson has an amazing deal though. $4.1M for the next 4 or 5 years. That said, Edmonton still should've gotten a small add. But they were desperate.

And the Devils have the space to add Demers, so they could be tough for us next year.

Holland has gotta be feeling the heat.

 

[Hammettf2b]

What is going on. This has been a crazy day.

 

[korrowan]

Not getting Stamkos pretty much means a trash team until they figure out how to get a super star. Without one the team will be mediocre at best. Queue deadwings 2.0. Signing any of those other guys is pointless, none of them or a combination of them are going to help enough to deal with the loss of datsyuk, the decline of Z and the endless drafting of trash defenseman for the last 15 years.

 

[Ezekial]

Uhhh Rads and Ship then, that'd be cool I guess.

Btw Radulov signing in the KHL was a hoax. Don't always trust the internet.

 

[jkutswings]

Question for those that want a rebuild.

Are you prepared for a team that finishes last or near last for the better part of a decade?
That's about how long you have to be bad to fully rebuild.

Yes. Absolutely. Without question.

Because that's how convinced I am that the current plan will only result in a few additional years of being a bubble team, then eventually turning into a rebuild anyway. I wanted to eat the Datsyuk cap hit and draft Chychrun..and still wish we had.

Let's say we get Stamkos for $10.5M. And somehow add a second pair defenseman on top of that. That roster is still likely a first round exit, or scraping into the second round at best.

So let's say they add another top-4 blueliner next summer. And the kids start to mature a bit. And the best case scenario is they're on the fringe of making the conference finals.

They're still one more high-end addition from being a consistent Cup contender.

But they've been building via free agency and trades, so the players they're adding are much more expensive than if your core comes from the draft. So if you add one more piece, even with some bad deals coming off the books, you're starved for cap space and flexibility. And now Stamkos is closing in on 30, so he's still very good, but his elite days are ending or already over, depending on the ice time you gave him in his first 3 years here. And you'll have to keep this streak of very good acquisitions going, as these players are likely in their late 20's when they arrive, and they in turn will start tailing off after the first 2-3 years of their deals. And it's really really hard to get enough talent all peaking at the same time to win those 16 games.

Is it POSSIBLE to win a Cup this way? Yes. But if I'm building a roster, I don't want to spend all this money for a 2-3 year window of maybe winning just one. I'd rather take the long route to do what I think gives a better chance of contending for 5-7 years, and maybe even winning more than one championship during that time.