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Off-Season Thread: Free Agency & Trade Talk

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Zetterberg4Captain

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Fedorov said:
Come on when is the last time Holland made a relevant trade that increased the cup contention factor of this team?



Its not like that you just gotta stop trying to short cut the system, you can't patchwork this roster deep into the playoffs. The patchwork has gone on long enough that the roster has deteriorated to embarrassment levels. Add on top of that Holland's country club contracts and you have a window where there is no logical action other than rebuilding. You rebuild to stock picks, you rebuild to let the daytsuk contract fall away, you rebuild to let Erickson's contract die, you rebuild to get Zetts and Kronwal on LTIR. You use the ice time to develop young players and if they can't handle development in the NHL then you move them on and use your picks collected in the rebuild to replace them. Once there is a legit core then you sprinkle in the UFA. Holland delayed a rebuild and extended how bad this roster was going to get. Now everyone wants a magic UFA solution to pretend we can just sign our way out of it. Its not an ideal or perfect direction but its the best and only chance there is. At some point Holland has to stop trying to magically get deep in the playoffs and build a team that contains elite talent. Talent that is not outlandishly expensive and is going to be tapering off when Larkin, Mrazek, Mantha, and crew are in their prime. Its not how long this will take that is a factor. Its that not doing it is just spinning the wheels of mediocrity indefinitely. Good is the enemy of great.
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Federov I am sorry but this isnt an answer, at least not one with a plan

you're the GM of the DRW right now, today, what is your exact plan to make us a contender and how long should or will it take
 
Hammettf2b

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Retire91

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Zetterberg4Captain said:
Federov I am sorry but this isnt an answer, at least not one with a plan

you're the GM of the DRW right now, today, what is your exact plan to make us a contender and how long should or will it take
Click to expand...

You promote your youth and give them ice time. Right now this season. Mantha, AA, Larkin, Marchenko, AO all get ice time relitive to their skill set. You don't fill the roster with the typical 1 or 2 Holland vet specials. Give them 2 seasons to prove themselves and if they don't work out replace them

During this off season and season you work on getting rid of the Erickson, and Howard contracts. You don't sign Helm. Its time to clean the house.

If the team flourishes with young talent then we enjoy the ride. If not then we pick 5th overall and roll the dice on adding more elite talent to the roster while the youth develops into their peak.

Larkin is 19 so I would give it 5 years until he is about 24. By then you get some high picks to fill in you have had 5 years to fix the D problem. You have a very promising Mrazek in net.

If this were the plan Stamkos is 31 when this window opens and costing the team 10 million about the time all these bridge contracts roll around. All he has done is increase the teams skill level so they don't pick top 5 if they were going to flop. And the team wasn't going to win a cup anyway, so what is the gain?

Not saying this will work but its the price we paid watching Holland trying to patch his way to a cup run since 2009. Every season you push off the rebuild makes the rebuild hurt that much more. If Holland actually rebuilt after the last cup Larkin would likely be surrounded by some incredible talent and we wouldn't be scratching our heads about what to do. Instead we got season after season of a roster full of Quincies, Clearys and Alfredsons. Was it worth it, I say heck no, that was a rebuild window wasted and that rebuild didn't happen for the same reasons being discussed this offseason.
 
Ezekial

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All of those players excluding XO(AO I'm assuming)should already be in the opening day lineup.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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Fedorov said:
You promote your youth and give them ice time. Right now this season. Mantha, AA, Larkin, Marchenko, AO all get ice time relitive to their skill set. You don't fill the roster with the typical 1 or 2 Holland vet specials. Give them 2 seasons to prove themselves and if they don't work out replace them

During this off season and season you work on getting rid of the Erickson, and Howard contracts. You don't sign Helm. Its time to clean the house.

If the team flourishes with young talent then we enjoy the ride. If not then we pick 5th overall and roll the dice on adding more elite talent to the roster while the youth develops into their peak.

Larkin is 19 so I would give it 5 years until he is about 24. By then you get some high picks to fill in you have had 5 years to fix the D problem. You have a very promising Mrazek in net.

If this were the plan Stamkos is 31 when this window opens and costing the team 10 million about the time all these bridge contracts roll around. All he has done is increase the teams skill level so they don't pick top 5 if they were going to flop. And the team wasn't going to win a cup anyway, so what is the gain?

Not saying this will work but its the price we paid watching Holland trying to patch his way to a cup run since 2009. Every season you push off the rebuild makes the rebuild hurt that much more.
Click to expand...

this is a little bit better for sure

i am not so sure that our current roster with a mantha and Aa playing more minutes results in a 5th OA pick, at worst its a 10th OA pick which is garbage(yes i would rather pick 16th then 10th)

to me the problem is this,

to truly tank an organization has to commit itself to do so which typically means selling off its vets(think what calgary), it then has to be ok with being irrelevant for the better part of at least 5 years(that means no playoffs) except for perhaps some fluke season of overperformance and it has to also be ok with that 5 year window being pushed even longer

any other "rebuild" and you're just spinning your wheels
 

Reddwit

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Fedorov said:
Come on when is the last time Holland made a relevant trade that increased the cup contention factor of this team?



Its not like that you just gotta stop trying to short cut the system, you can't patchwork this roster deep into the playoffs. The patchwork has gone on long enough that the roster has deteriorated to embarrassment levels. Add on top of that Holland's country club contracts and you have a window where there is no logical action other than rebuilding. You rebuild to stock picks, you rebuild to let the daytsuk contract fall away, you rebuild to let Erickson's contract die, you rebuild to get Zetts and Kronwal on LTIR. You use the ice time to develop young players and if they can't handle development in the NHL then you move them on and use your picks collected in the rebuild to replace them. Once there is a legit core then you sprinkle in the UFA. Holland delayed a rebuild and extended how bad this roster was going to get. Now everyone wants a magic UFA solution to pretend we can just sign our way out of it. Its not an ideal or perfect direction but its the best and only chance there is. At some point Holland has to stop trying to magically get deep in the playoffs and build a team that contains elite talent. Talent that is not outlandishly expensive and is going to be tapering off when Larkin, Mrazek, Mantha, and crew are in their prime. Its not how long this will take that is a factor. Its that not doing it is just spinning the wheels of mediocrity indefinitely. Good is the enemy of great.
Click to expand...

How is this patchwork? Patchwork is Samuelsson, Bertuzzi Senior, Cola and White. Patchwork is not bringing in a 1C who is 26. And the reason it doesn't happen often because it only happens a few times each decade that a player of Stamkos' calibre in the most important positions (1C, 1D) hits free agency.

Also, your assumption is that not getting Stamkos somehow means not doing anything, as if there is then no chance Holland goes after wingers like Ladd for $5M or Okposo at $7M. Or that by signing Stamkos to a massive contract, Holland will sit on his laurels, instead of then throwing fat assets at a good young-ish defenseman like Shattenkirk or Fowler because he's now that much closer to retooling the team and building a contender.
 

Reddwit

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Frk It said:
Holding my breath....

remember when we thought we were giving up Andersson/Ferraro for Legwand but then it was Jarnkrok?

Yeah, I'm having flashbacks....
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:laugh: I remember hearing the trade on the radio, and I was like "that can't be right. These DJs know nothing about hockey..."
 

Reddwit

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Guru Meditation said:
"Younger players" really worries me there. Maybe it's just because I wouldn't describe Jurco and Pulkkinen that way.
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Pretty much every outlet has used that term when following it up with Jurco or Pulkkinen's name.

I think they'd call the others high-end prospects, but who knows. I'm probably splitting hairs.
 
Bench

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In non-Stamkos news, Demers and Russell are going to hit free agency out of Dallas. No interest in Russell, but assuming the Wings don't swing any blockbusters, Demers is a defensive upgrade. But with Goligoski and Yandle already swept off the market, he's going to get a nice salary I'd wager.
 

Reddwit

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Bench said:
In non-Stamkos news, Demers and Russell are going to hit free agency out of Dallas. No interest in Russell, but assuming the Wings don't swing any blockbusters, Demers is a defensive upgrade. But with Goligoski and Yandle already swept off the market, he's going to get a nice salary I'd wager.
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Demers is going to cost us like he's a blockbuster. I want no part of that. 5 defenseman making 4.25M+, four of them for another 3 years or more, and none of them particularly good but contracts that pay them like they're getting the job done.
 
Ezekial

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Guru Meditation said:
Maybe it's just HF-ism getting to me, but 24 is not young in sports terms.
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In terms of the NHL I consider a 23 or 24 year old a "younger player". Generally speaking I'd call 18-23 year olds yet to make it to the NHL prospects, and Nhlers 19-24/25 younger players.
I guess it's all semantics.

Pavel Datsyuk was 23 when he and hank were on Brett Hull's line, was he not a "younger player" at that point?
 
Retire91

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Ezekial said:
How's life in that set in stone vacuum you live in?
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Just going by what I have seen season after season to expect the outcome of the next. Would hope to see more youth but history strongly supports youth will be on the back burner.
 
ricky0034

ricky0034

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personally I consider anyone up to like 27 young

when they literally can't even go to UFA because they aren't old enough I have a hard time calling them anything else
 

Reddwit

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Ezekial said:
In terms of the NHL I consider a 23 or 24 year old a "younger player". Generally speaking I'd call 18-23 year olds yet to make it to the NHL prospects, and Nhlers 19-24/25 younger players.
I guess it's all semantics.

Pavel Datsyuk was 23 when he and hank were on Brett Hull's line, was he not a "younger player" at that point?
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Yeah, semantics, but I think younger tends to imply that you aren't committing to saying that player is just straight up young. Larkin and Mantha are young. No argument. Jurco and Pulk (and Tatar) are younger. Ericsson is older. Datsyuk, 38 in a few weeks, is old.
 
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