Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 14th: Who is bigger, Dickey or Johnson?

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cyris

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Dec 6, 2008
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If your gonna pull Rasmus out of CF for someone with base stealing ability Gose is a better option than Davis.
While he has less pop in his bat he gets on base at almost the same clip and his D and arm are vastly superior.

Davis is one of the guys I am looking forward to seeing working with the new hitting coach tho. Maybe he can improve and get on base more.
 
Apr 1, 2010
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If your gonna pull Rasmus out of CF for someone with base stealing ability Gose is a better option than Davis.
While he has less pop in his bat he gets on base at almost the same clip and his D and arm are vastly superior.

Davis is one of the guys I am looking forward to seeing working with the new hitting coach tho. Maybe he can improve and get on base more.

Davis has gone from platoon out fielder to pinch runner and didn't move an inch.


Gose has to be the #1 guy to fill in in ithe outfield.

Damn this team is looking soo good how can you not be getting excited?
 

Bjindaho

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Jun 12, 2006
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Now I admit I am ignorant, but what the hell is so special about Beane. Yes I understand that he has built playoff teams with a low budget but isn't his whole moneyball philosophy about scoring runs? When is the last time the A's had a good offense? The last time they were top 5 in runs scored in the A.L was 2001. That was the last year they had Giambi (Not exactly some secret moneyball find).

Their credit should go to having a great development system for producing good pitchers shouldn't it?

Billy Beane gets credit for hiring a statistician when no one else had one. The A's don't ever have good offenses, but they rebuilt in '02 by using guys like Hatteburg and not being completely horrible (which is what moneyball is about). It was a study of how stats can help find market deficiencies to help a team gain an advantage (deficiencies which no longer exist).
 

Ohio Jones

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Feb 28, 2002
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Billy Beane gets credit for hiring a statistician when no one else had one. The A's don't ever have good offenses, but they rebuilt in '02 by using guys like Hatteburg and not being completely horrible (which is what moneyball is about). It was a study of how stats can help find market deficiencies to help a team gain an advantage (deficiencies which no longer exist).

Market inefficiencies, I think you mean.

To further Bjin's point, the "Moneyball" philosophy isn't about any one style of baseball. It's about understanding how much each aspect of play contributes to a team's chance to win, and then identifying those aspects that are undervalued (and therefore less expensive) and concentrating your limited budget there to get the most wins for your buck.

Pitching is relatively well understood and valued, so the only way to obtain a market edge on pitching on a limited budget is to develop your own and then trade them when they start to earn bigger contracts. (Reclamation projects can also be cost-effective but are higher risk.)

So the opportunities to gain a "Moneyball" edge were seen to be among position players - in particular offence, more particularly OBP.

Here's the problem for Beane and company: over the past decade, and due in large part to the success Beane and his disciples have achieved, most teams have caught on to the significance OBP to the point where it's no longer undervalued in the market. So he has to find another area that contributes to wins, and which is undervalued compared to its contribution.

The argument's been made that defence is the next inefficiency, and there's something to be said for it.

Speed still appears to be fairly valued compared to its impact on wins, but that's an improvement on being overvalued, so over the coming years that will probably see speed become more of a focus for cost-conscious teams.
 

Animal

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Oct 10, 2012
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Is there such a thing as legit fakes? :laugh:

In my mind there is. I've seen fake jerseys that look 100% real. Then I've seen fakes where the blue jays blue is 3 shades different and the style of the numbering is completely different
 

Anthrax442

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Aug 4, 2008
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Billy Beane gets credit for hiring a statistician when no one else had one. The A's don't ever have good offenses, but they rebuilt in '02 by using guys like Hatteburg and not being completely horrible (which is what moneyball is about). It was a study of how stats can help find market deficiencies to help a team gain an advantage (deficiencies which no longer exist).

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...illy-beane-extremely-sexy-030337130--mlb.html

Billiy Beane is also sexy and cool.
 

Silver91

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May 27, 2007
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So I guess we will be like the Phillies from now on in that our farm system will be used to constantly reload major league holes because the talent is at the low levels and takes to long to reach eventually depleting both the major and minor leagues after a 5 year span.

Well, to be fair, their core is almost dust they're so old, and Amarro continues to deplete his farm in an attempt to keep going, and I guess with Lee, Hamels and Halladay they can't be counted out, but shelling out their top prospect and a young-ish SP for Ben Revere and then thinking Young can be an everyday 3B...If Halladay leaves and Utley/Howard continue their downswing, there's not much hope for them.

The difference for us is that, while our core isn't necessarily young, it shouldn't start to fall apart for another 3-4 years. And even while the bulk of our high-end guys won't be coming into their own until the end of that window, we've got enough young guys that we can replenish our needs at the MLB level without dipping much further into the prospect pool. We can even use a guy like Rasmus to fill a need somewhere else or an arm like Romero/JJ to get us younger players/fill holes (JJ would get us a pick, but still helps restock a prospect).

I would like to think that, while AA isn't afraid to trade prospects, he isn't going to exodus all of them in favour of old roster players, Dickey is a rare case where age isn't as important as it would be with almost any other player.


On a side note, how awesome would it be if, after the season, Buehrle loves Toronto and agrees to defer part of his contract so that the Jays could afford to re-sign guys. Not likely, but would be amazing lol
 

ryno23

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Feb 5, 2010
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Billy Beane gets credit for hiring a statistician when no one else had one. The A's don't ever have good offenses, but they rebuilt in '02 by using guys like Hatteburg and not being completely horrible (which is what moneyball is about). It was a study of how stats can help find market deficiencies to help a team gain an advantage (deficiencies which no longer exist).

What some people tend to overlook about Moneyball is one of the biggest reason it even worked and become something was the A's had the big 3 pitching Mulder, Zito, Hudson + Lilly.

It boiled down to what it always does good pitching will always carry a team for the most part. Just like the Giants of this year which had great pitching and a so so offence it carried them to the World Series.

If you took out the big 3 and replaced them with Rick Helling, Miguel Batista,Brett Tomko they probably would not have that great success as they would have lost lots of game where they could not produce enough offence to win.

What happens is they had such a great staff that they could get away with scoring 3 a game and won many games with that formula.

Many teams have adopted a version of it and without the great staff it has failed many times.
 

SpezDispenser

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Aug 15, 2007
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Saw the Sportsnet ticker yesterday and missed the first name of the Ortiz guy we signed for the minors. Needless to say, I soiled myself thinking it was David.

Surely I wasn't the only one jarred by that for a moment.
 

Sokil

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Apr 29, 2010
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Encouraging to hear that Arencibia will be spending the offseason in Nashville with RA and that they'll be working out together, getting more time in and hopefully getting well acquainted with the knuckleball
 

Woodman19

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Jun 14, 2008
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Encouraging to hear that Arencibia will be spending the offseason in Nashville with RA and that they'll be working out together, getting more time in and hopefully getting well acquainted with the knuckleball

It was hilarious watching J.P. Catch Delabar and Morrow last year. I would love to see him try Dickey only after we have clinched a playoff spot for everyone to see.
 

topched

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Nov 19, 2008
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It was hilarious watching J.P. Catch Delabar and Morrow last year. I would love to see him try Dickey only after we have clinched a playoff spot for everyone to see.

I hope JP works hard with him on it over the year.

From what I've seen and read, the difficulty catching Dickey isn't blocking its actually catching the ball in tight on your body.

JP hasn't been a very good blocker of balls in the dirt etc... but catching a dancing Knuckler isn't the same as trying to keep a delabar splitter that bounces aggressively in the dirt.

It would be nice to have some confidence going into the playoffs (if we get there) that we can role JP out there and not lose much defensively, but gain offensively.
 

thatshype

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Jul 3, 2010
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I hope JP works hard with him on it over the year.

From what I've seen and read, the difficulty catching Dickey isn't blocking its actually catching the ball in tight on your body.

JP hasn't been a very good blocker of balls in the dirt etc... but catching a dancing Knuckler isn't the same as trying to keep a delabar splitter that bounces aggressively in the dirt.

It would be nice to have some confidence going into the playoffs (if we get there) that we can role JP out there and not lose much defensively, but gain offensively.

One of JP's best attributes is that he works hard. Its not gonna earn him the Gold Glovr or a 300 average, but at least we can't fault him for not trying.
 

Woodman19

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Jun 14, 2008
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One of JP's best attributes is that he works hard. Its not gonna earn him the Gold Glovr or a 300 average, but at least we can't fault him for not trying.

Work ethic is usually a defining trait of every proffesional athlete, its the lazy ones who are the exception and not the rule.
 

weems

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Jul 3, 2008
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theaub

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Nov 21, 2008
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Work ethic is usually a defining trait of every proffesional athlete, its the lazy ones who are the exception and not the rule.

Also the general perception of 'work ethic' in baseball is still based on, well, certain factors.

Let's just say that all the players who people decried up here as having a bad work ethic over the past 10 years all had something in common.
 
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