Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 14th: Who is bigger, Dickey or Johnson?

[canucksfan]

Given the all-time list of Blue Jay catchers ever to hit 20+ HR's has only one name on it, I think JPA has the tools to be an everyday MLB catcher on any squad, the over-hyping of prospects and dumping on JP (who btw only has TWO seasons under his belt) is ridiculous.

Besides his power, he is below average at everything else.

 

[Leafsdude7]

Given the all-time list of Blue Jay catchers ever to hit 20+ HR's has only one name on it, I think JPA has the tools to be an everyday MLB catcher on any squad, the over-hyping of prospects and dumping on JP (who btw only has TWO seasons under his belt) is ridiculous.

I tend to agree. JPA is nothing special, but he gets the job done. He's legitimate MLB material.

That said, he's not the absolute future of this team. Even with d'Arnaud gone, we still have AJ Jimenez in the system who is an insane defensive talent and looks like he might be able to hit for good average. He's probably 3-4 years away, but since Thole is controlled for that long, we shouldn't have to worry too much about Arencibia.

 

[McThome]

I'm not going to answer the first one because I think it's fairly obvious what I meant.

I am genuinely stumped as to what a person might think he brings offensively aside from home runs.

Secondly, what's with you an lists? Not only that, what's with you assuming your lists are correct.

I am using the list to help you understand that your assumptions are not correct. If you would like to take issue with any of the catchers I would gladly explain to you how I came to the conclusion that they had a superior season offensively.

Not sure where you got me saying he's better than most DHs, I said he's better than quite a few. Including several teams in our division. Besides Boston, the DH position is quite weak in the AL east. Baltimore, Tampa Bay and New York all have crappy DHs.

The DH Question is a tricky one because very few teams have a player who is a "DH". Many teams use it in a platooning fashion. For instance, EE only was the DH in 82 games this past season. There were only seven guys who were used strictly as a DH. Matsui and Scott were the only guys who didn't have a better season than JP offensively.

You mention the Yankees had a 'crappy DH'. They didn't have a DH. Chavez and Ibanez had the most starts on the team at DH. I'd be curious to hear which of those two didn't out perform JP offensively.

 

[Natey]

Love you, JPA!!!

 

[HOCKEYGOON]

Anyone think JPA was kept because he's a well liked teammate? I think everyone gets too concerned with number crunching and forgets the human factor of the clubhouse.

 

[TootooTrain]

Anyone think JPA was kept because he's a well liked teammate? I think everyone gets too concerned with number crunching and forgets the human factor of the clubhouse.

He gets an A+ from me in terms of attitude that's for sure, but nobody except the people on this team know whether he's liked or disliked in the clubhouse. In addition, the "human factor" is very insignificant if you're hitting .230 on the year. On the field production comes first and the off the field stuff usually depends on if the team is winning or losing.

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per mlbtr
(link)

The Blue Jays announced that they claimed right-hander Mickey Storey off of waivers from the Astros. Toronto's 40-man roster is now full.

So if we're still adding a bench option later on around spring training, it looks like it will most likely be an in-house promotion unless someone is put on waivers or designated for assignment. Wouldn't be surprised to see them try and sneak Storey like they did with the other various waiver claims this offseason.

 

[Cloned]

Hypothetical question:

Say the Jays win the WS this year, and AA says he's reached the pinnacle of baseball GMing and wants a new challenge. He says he's going to start learning more about the NHL and NBA game.

Who here would actually be OK with hiring AA as the GM of their NHL or NBA team?

 

[HOCKEYGOON]

He gets an A+ from me in terms of attitude that's for sure, but nobody except the people on this team know whether he's liked or disliked in the clubhouse. In addition, the "human factor" is very insignificant if you're hitting .230 on the year. On the field production comes first and the off the field stuff usually depends on if the team is winning or losing.

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per mlbtr
(link)



So if we're still adding a bench option later on around spring training, it looks like it will most likely be an in-house promotion unless someone is put on waivers.

Going by twitter comments he's very well liked.

 

[TootooTrain]

Going by twitter comments he's very well liked.

Being entertaining on twitter with a select few teammates does not correlate to anything related to baseball or the clubhouse atmosphere. He does look like a stand-up guy, but we simply don't know as fans.

 

[The Nemesis]

Indeed. As well, you'd think more people would take offense to it if they didn't agree with it. The way JPA gets hate around here, I wouldn't be surprised to most people rather have Jaso. We had plenty of people pushing for more Mathis time despite the likelyhood of him faltering once he got more starts (Which did happen).

Honestly, I think a lot of people have simply tuned out your argument on sheer ridiculousness. Or maybe they're simply ignoring your posts in general. I can't know either for sure, but it's just as valid a hypothesis as "if more people disagreed they'd respond".

Beyond that, it's absolutely ludicrous to believe that you can extrapolate anything from a sample size as small as you have to work with on this Jaso idea, let alone trying to claim that it represents the majority when of the 3 people who are included in the sample, only one fits the profile that you are attempting to attribute to the group (that Jaso is beloved as a potential replacement because of his higher OBP). 3 people does not a sample make. Nor does 33% represent a majority, let alone "everyone". This is simply twisted facts, and a gross corruption of the most basic rules of statistics. Your argument has no base to be built on. It's all supposition and inference. Most people don't think Arencibia is a high-calibre starting catcher. One of those people thinks Jaso would be a better overall option because of OBP. Ergo, everyone else must think the same thing because they're on the same side. The sheer fallaciousness of that is staggering.

You're so hellbent on defending Arencibia against any criticism that you're completely willing to manufacture whatever evidence you need or resort to ad hominem attacks. Instead of refuting the arguments people provide against JP, you just scream "hater!" at them and claim that makes their points worthless.

 

[Bjindaho]

At this point in his career, JPA is a below average catcher. He hits home runs, but doesn't even have a particularly good slugging percentage because he doesn't hit doubles. There is potential for him to improve, but he still has to improve before you can make arguments that say he's average or good. Keep in mind, the list Nemesis showed comments on are some of the worst regular catchers in ALL of baseball. The fact that Arencibia currently belongs on that list should tell you something.

 

[Bullsmith]

If I'm Rogers, I'm over the moon happy with AA right now. Yes they opened up the vault to take on salary but AA had done a good enough job stockpiling talent that he was able to trade for the game's most precious commodity- starting pitching- in a really incredible way.

It's easy to spend money, especially by overpaying for free agents. The RA Dickey deal and the Melky deal are both below market value by most standards (especially Dicky), JJ is on a one year so yes you may lose him but if he breaks down badly you haven't committed dollars either. Lost of teams go on spending sprees, but it's also common for their moves to attract a lot of criticism. AA's moves are pretty much universally seen as getting bang for buck, the only criticism is about how much he may have given away at the prospect level.

So if I'm rogers, in direct competition with TSN and Bell, I just stole the national sports spotlight and for sure the Toronto spotlight heading into a long period where my network will carry Jays games and TSN will have to rely on the CFL. In a lot of ways, AA may just have made Sportsnet miles more competitive (and valuable) than it was two months ago. Really an incredible job of not only adding talent and spending money (I think) in a very intelligent way, but also what a marketing coup for Rogers. The timing of these two massive trades was impeccible that way.

 

[Erick*]

Jays claimed Mickey Storey.
Despite being DFA'd way too many times this offseason, he's a pretty good reliever.

 

[Sokil]

Hypothetical question:

Say the Jays win the WS this year, and AA says he's reached the pinnacle of baseball GMing and wants a new challenge. He says he's going to start learning more about the NHL and NBA game.

Who here would actually be OK with hiring AA as the GM of their NHL or NBA team?

in all seriousness, that'd be dumb because he doesnt have the connections and networking and experience in the game that go towards being an effective manager. If he's not a hockey guy, he wouldn't be a great evaluator of hockey talent.

That said, if it was between an unexperienced AA or Brian Burke, I'd let AA do it. He also couldn't do any worse than Colangelo.

 

[Eyedea]

Granted, when I said that I was more into the thought of that Jaso has changed his batting stance, so he has the potential to hit for much higher power than he used to.

I know his defence is below average, to the point where Arencibia would be a more valuable candidate behind the plate (yikes?), but when a guy like Maddon would place Jaso at the leadoff spot, then I guess he's doing something right. His splits are pretty large just like Arencibia, and if Zunino is coming in this year as the M's starting catcher then Jaso would make a viable option to platoon with a righty bat. Thole makes the option useless anyways since he provides better defence and is capable of catching a knuckleball.

 

[Bjindaho]

in all seriousness, that'd be dumb because he doesnt have the connections and networking and experience in the game that go towards being an effective manager. If he's not a hockey guy, he wouldn't be a great evaluator of hockey talent.

That said, if it was between an unexperienced AA or Brian Burke, I'd let AA do it. He also couldn't do any worse than Colangelo.

He doesn't need to be. I don't believe he's a great evaluator of MLB talent. He pays people to do that. He manages his money and his assets well (he is more of a business mind than a baseball mind).

 

[FreeBird]

World Series Champs Really?

Players made up 2012 Blue Jays, Marlins, Mets and Astros who combined were four of the worst teams in MLB. And you mix them together and your W.S. contenders. I don't think so.

 

[dredeye]

Anyone think JPA was kept because he's a well liked teammate? I think everyone gets too concerned with number crunching and forgets the human factor of the clubhouse.

JPA was kept because the Mets turned down the offer that included him. They wanted TDA and did not want JPA. No one forgot about the human factor whatever that is.

 

[Bjindaho]

Players made up 2012 Blue Jays, Marlins, Mets and Astros who combined were four of the worst teams in MLB. And you mix them together and your W.S. contenders. I don't think so.

Can you try phrasing that in English?

 

[Animal]

Players made up 2012 Blue Jays, Marlins, Mets and Astros who combined were four of the worst teams in MLB. And you mix them together and your W.S. contenders. I don't think so.

wow.

 

[joepeps]

Players made up 2012 Blue Jays, Marlins, Mets and Astros who combined were four of the worst teams in MLB. And you mix them together and your W.S. contenders. I don't think so.

thats like saying Edmonton was last overall... but the leafs added Hall Eberle RNH
as well as saying Montreal was last and leafs added Price and Subban

are they worse or better?

 

[Stats01]

LOL A troll is a troll is a troll.

 

[Epictetus]

This thread just went full Pejorative Slur.

 

[Ruski]

This thread just went full Pejorative Slur.

haha well put....luckily we are about to get a new thread from the mods

 

[TootooTrain]

nvm. will post in new thread.