HF Habs: Off-Season Discussion Part III: Ain't Got No #1 Centre Edition

[WeThreeKings]

Tinordi has LESS value than Rychel, man.

 

[habs03]

I wouldn't touch Vermette with a 10 foot pole!

I'm not a big fan, but I think if you move Plekanec, you need a guy that can be a can eat up mintues vs other teams top lines. IMO I'd have him at wing but he can play centre.

I don't see many 2 way centre that be productive offensively.

I mean lets be honest I think everyone would be happy with Galchenyuk at 6'1 Eller at 6'2 and DRL at 6'3 down the middle, but all 3 have question marks, can Gally handle being a centre facing teams top d-pairings, and be good down low, can Eller be good enough in a top 6 role, and can DRL produce any offense?

If you trade Plekenac, I think you need to bring in a guy that can play wing and be moved to centre if needed.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

So? what does it matter how much he gets paid this year. His cap hit is $0 next season

Because he cost over 3 million dollars on the cap this year, when the Habs had no cap space, had the MVP in nets, and had a desperate need to add offence.

But of course that doesnt' matter because a guy with 1 year and 1.875 left on his contract got dealt.

#capsavings

So they used over 3 million in cap space this year for a player who contributed nothing in the playoffs, and everyone wants to give Bergevin credit for clearing 1.875 in an expiring deal for next year.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

Tinordi for Rychel and a 3rd round pick

Parenteau for a 4th round pick


Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher

Galchenyuk - Desharnais - Scherbak

Rychel - Eller - Weise

Prust - Mitchell - Smith Pelly

That line up is no better than what we just had. Another early playoff exit.

 

[habaholic]

Sekac gave more to the Ducks in 2 games than DSP in his entire play-off run.

I'm guessing you just closed your eyes when Sekac was on the ice the last two games.

I'm guessing the same way you closed you eyes during the whole Senators series?

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm guessing the same way you closed you eyes during the whole Senators series?

Uh, what did DSP do in the Senators series? Nothing, yeah, exactly.

I saw the Senators series.. we won 2 games because Hamburglar was a joke of a goalie. Anderson came in and stopped giving up muffins on our perimeter shots like Hamburglar.. Weise got us a 2-1 win in OT. Then we continued to struggle to score goals.. lost two games.. then scored 1 goal in game 6 and watched Price perform another miracle to get us to round 2.

OMG BUT WE OUTSHOT THEM WITH LIKE 40 SHOTS A GAME. Yeah, 30 shots from the outside were real ****ing scary, guys.

 

[Sorinth]

I'll ask again: Who foresaw this? Go back and reread the original Vanek thread -- virtually everyone was thrilled by the deal because there was no reason not to be. How many people were unhappy with the deal? Please find me anything foreseeable that was based on something more than 'a hunch'.

I think most people expected him to leave as UFA. Personally I don't mind trading a couple of 2nd rounders for a rental of Vanek's calibre especially since we had added 3 extra 2nd round picks a couple years beforehand. But if someone wants to make the point that spending 2nd round picks for rentals is bad, you can't claim we couldn't foresee Vanek leaving. Either the picks were worth trading for a rental or they weren't.

As for Parenteau, most of us were cautiously happy, if not thrilled. He had a proven track record and was younger, bigger and more productive than Briere. It was a worthwhile gamble, if not a slam-dunk.

And why were they cautious? Because there was a big chance of it turning out exactly like it did, Parenteau being unproductive and us being stuck with an extra year. It was far from a slam dunk.

And if outcomes are foreseeable, where are all the posts cheering the acquisition of Weise? He was generally dismissed as a nobody. How many foresaw that Petry would fit in so quickly and become one of our top dmen? He was overhyped and we overpaid, according to some. Funny how we're so much better at foreseeing negative outcomes.

I think most thought Petry would be good, I know I did, but regardless of whether a lot of people did or only a few, Bergevin's the one whose job it is to get it right. The Weise trade I thought would turn out worse for us then it did. Nobody's perfect but I would hope the GM can do a better job of predicting these things then posters on the internet.

By the way if we absolve Begervin for trades that didn't work out because we "couldn't" know, that implies he shouldn't get credit when things go well. So I guess we can never say he's made a good trade either.

 

[Miller Time]

Just hope MB is aware of how hard it will be to make PO's next year...

NYR, Tampa, Wash & NYI strike me as locks to be back.
Pitt, Detroit, Boston & Ottawa, simply by being a bit luckier on injury front, will likely be better.

Florida & Columbus, on their incumbents alone, will be better. Both have cap space & assets to get better in offseason.

That's 10 teams looking like strong playoff contenders(including us).

Philly & toronto look like long shots, but both have enough pieces to either make a run or make moves that put them in the running.

NJ, Buffalo & Carolina look like the only safe bets to not be in the running... But every year there's a surprise.


Will be a tougher dog fight than this year imo, and we are banking on a repeat of hart/Norris seasons from our two stars & another season of remarkable injury luck (we lost 88 games, next closest was 126!!), we'll be in for a short season.


MB's make or break offseason is right now...

 

[Slew Foots]

Just hope MB is aware of how hard it will be to make PO's next year...

NYR, Tampa, Wash & NYI strike me as locks to be back.
Pitt, Detroit, Boston & Ottawa, simply by being a bit luckier on injury front, will likely be better.

Florida & Columbus, on their incumbents alone, will be better. Both have cap space & assets to get better in offseason.

That's 10 teams looking like strong playoff contenders(including us).

Philly & toronto look like long shots, but both have enough pieces to either make a run or make moves that put them in the running.

NJ, Buffalo & Carolina look like the only safe bets to not be in the running... But every year there's a surprise.


Will be a tougher dog fight than this year imo, and we are banking on a repeat of hart/Norris seasons from our two stars & another season of remarkable injury luck (we lost 88 games, next closest was 126!!), we'll be in for a short season.


MB's make or break offseason is right now...

Completely agree - MB has some critical decisions & moves to make this season. The only thing that won't happen is Toronto being a playoff long shot hehe...Babcock pretty much just insinuated he was ready to tank this coming season to get Hunter some good picks.

 

[optimus2861]

And Columbus was absolutely wrecked with injuries this season, losing a staggering 508 man-games, most in the league. Just getting healthy will add several points to their standing next season.

 

[Slew Foots]

http://mremis.ca/steve-valiquette-on-how-goals-are-scored/

The more I watch TB in the TB-NYR series, the more I believe Cooper is incorporating Valiquette's research into their zone entries.

TB is playing very modern, progressive, positive hockey right now. If Bishop was playing better, I would say TB would look most likely to win the cup this year.

Habs have the players to play a similar style, but I'm afraid that a couple of dinosaurs like MT and MB will continue to preach archaic methods. Shoot from anywhere. Chip and chase. Put da puk on da net. OK guys.

 

[Monctonscout]

Tinordi has LESS value than Rychel, man.

You don't know that...like most of your posts you post your opinion as fact.

Guys that are 6'6+" and move like Tinordi are hard to find, I'm sure he has very good value, a lot more than fans would know.

 

[Monctonscout]

http://mremis.ca/steve-valiquette-on-how-goals-are-scored/

The more I watch TB in the TB-NYR series, the more I believe Cooper is incorporating Valiquette's research into their zone entries.

TB is playing very modern, progressive, positive hockey right now. If Bishop was playing better, I would say TB would look most likely to win the cup this year.

Habs have the players to play a similar style, but I'm afraid that a couple of dinosaurs like MT and MB will continue to preach archaic methods. Shoot from anywhere. Chip and chase. Put da puk on da net. OK guys.

Comparing the Habs and TB rosters up front, the Habs don't have the team to play that style.

 

[Bob b smith]

Comparing the Habs and TB rosters up front, the Habs don't have the team to play that style.

TB would not play that style if they had MT. He's never coached that way in the NHL even when he had Crosby and Malkin.

 

[WeThreeKings]

You don't know that...like most of your posts you post your opinion as fact.

Guys that are 6'6+" and move like Tinordi are hard to find, I'm sure he has very good value, a lot more than fans would know.

They're hard to find because they bust more than they succeed.

 

[Slew Foots]

Comparing the Habs and TB rosters up front, the Habs don't have the team to play that style.

Well, that's because it's probable that at least one or two of the triplets would be still languishing in Hamilton if they were in the Habs organization. Habs have players in the organization would could play that style.

 

[OnTheRun]

Comparing the Habs and TB rosters up front, the Habs don't have the team to play that style.

You're not comparing the rosters.

What you did here was to take the offensive output of the Habs roster and assume it is the best possible outcome for that roster.


And since the Habs output is lower than TB output your conclusion is we don't have the team to play that style.

 

[WeThreeKings]

You're not comparing the rosters.

What you did here was to take the offensive output of the Habs roster and assume it is the best possible outcome for that roster.


And since the Habs output is lower than TB output your conclusion is we don't have the team to play that style.

Because we have the best staff in the league and it is irrefutable that he played the best system and it maximized the talents of every player in it.

 

[Monctonscout]

Well, that's because it's probable that at least one or two of the triplets would be still languishing in Hamilton if they were in the Habs organization. Habs have players in the organization would could play that style.

The "triplets" also "languished" in the AHL. Two of them are 24 and Kucherov will be 22 in a month.

 

[optimus2861]

http://mremis.ca/steve-valiquette-on-how-goals-are-scored/

The more I watch TB in the TB-NYR series, the more I believe Cooper is incorporating Valiquette's research into their zone entries.

TB is playing very modern, progressive, positive hockey right now. If Bishop was playing better, I would say TB would look most likely to win the cup this year.

I wouldn't bet against Chicago, but I did have the Bolts pegged as a likely finalist going into the playoffs. Something about the way the Rangers were winning games didn't smell right. Very poor possession numbers underneath that record, possibly being bailed out by Lundqvist's work in goal. That team's better than that so it may just have been some down years from key players, but the margin for error in the playoffs is much lower. They've squeezed out something like seven 2-1 wins thus far and it looks like they can't squeeze any more of those out of the Bolts.

 

[Monctonscout]

You're not comparing the rosters.

What you did here was to take the offensive output of the Habs roster and assume it is the best possible outcome for that roster.


And since the Habs output is lower than TB output your conclusion is we don't have the team to play that style.

If you're saying playing a run and gun style is the best way to maximize the current roster, then you must have lost your marbles.

The offensive output would no doubt be higher but so would the goals against. Just look at NYR who is smaller and quicker than Habs forwards and TB blows by them.

 

[OnTheRun]

If you're saying playing a run and gun style is the best way to maximize the current roster, then you must have lost your marbles.

The offensive output would no doubt be higher but so would the goals against. Just look at NYR who is smaller and quicker than Habs forwards and TB blows by them.

Holy...

The question is not "can we play that style" WE ARE BUILD TO PLAY THAT STYLE.
The question is: "can we be as efficient as TB if we play it and if not what do we need to change to make it happen."
Solving this puzzle should be the top priority of this administration. But they seems more interested in turning us into the 2002 NJ Devils.

#StoptheGrindingAct

 

[GoodKiwi]

Holy...

The question is not "can we play that style" WE ARE BUILD TO PLAY THAT STYLE.
The question is: "can we be as efficient as TB if we play it and if not what do we need to change to make it happen."
Solving this puzzle should be the top priority of this administration. But they seems more interested in turning us into the 2002 NJ Devils.

#StoptheGrindingAct

That's just your opinion. Many, including myself, disagree.

 

[OnTheRun]

That's just your opinion. Many, including myself, disagree.

It's not an opinion, it's an observation.

Look at the player we have and look at how we drafts... We are seriously failing at this building a grinding team kind of thing.

We don't have the rugged edge required to do it on the team and we don't seems to be interested in getting it through the draft either.

So yeah, we are not a grinding team.

 

[Miller Time]

That's just your opinion. Many, including myself, disagree.

do you think the following 7 players are better suited to play a grinding style game vs a possession/passing style game?


Patches
Plekanec
Galch
Gallagher
Desharnais
Eller
Parenteau


and what about :

PK
Markov
Petry
Beaulieu



not exactly a core that screams "grind".