HF Habs: Off-Season Discussion (Part Duh)

[Cole Caulifield]

Funny you mention this...team was 9-2-1 with Galch-Patches producing at about 1ppg when Galchenyuk was centering the top line. So I guess you can scratch that theory of yours off.

So that 9-2-1 was entirely a function of Galchenyuk playing center ?

If you are honest with yourself, you will agree that Galchenyuk had slowed down considerably in the later parts of that 9-2-1 and that line wasn't producing at all anymore.

 

[Compile]

Leafs Florida and about 20 other teams. People have to cool their expectations, be happy with what we did the last 2 years if anyone expected we were going to win the cup this year or last well than I have a bridge to sell you. We're not quite there yet but we had a very good year compared to 22 other teams. How do you think LA and Boston fans feel?

Its one thing to cool expectations when they ACTUALLY win something. Its another to wait 20+ years for anything close to resembling a contender (which we are not).

Comments like this one and your previous one are immature, childish and quiet frankly brainwashed.

 

[blarneylad]

Well his line was producing at about 1ppg, and the team scored over 3g a game during that stretch. So even if it weren't because of them, why change it when you're scoring the most you have all year and your record is great?

You're not making sense.

I actually wasn't sour that they changed it back to status quo.

Not until they continued to struggle 5 on 5 and on the PP for the remainder of the season. And into the playoffs. But the coaching staff figured that it wouldn't be a good idea to re-explore the Galchenyuk/Patch duo.

That is what doesn't make sense. That they didn't revisit it.

 

[Stylizer1]

MB signs Vermette to a 4 year 24 millio dollar contract.

 

[Kriss E]

So that 9-2-1 was entirely a function of Galchenyuk playing center ?

If you are honest with yourself, you will agree that Galchenyuk had slowed down considerably in the later parts of that 9-2-1 and that line wasn't producing at all anymore.

But why would it even matter?? If the rest of the team is doing great and we're still pulling victories?? Why change it?? If moving DD down to 3rd line makes him more effective, and our team is better for it, while Galchenyuk goes through his adjustment period at center, all the while the team is still winning, why change it??
Isn't that what you just argued for?? That if moving Galchenyuk to center helps the team win more, then he'd play there. Well now that you've been reminded that this is what actually happened, you're moving the goalposts to his line needing to be the catalyst? You're not being fair.

 

[blarneylad]

So that 9-2-1 was entirely a function of Galchenyuk playing center ?

If you are honest with yourself, you will agree that Galchenyuk had slowed down considerably in the later parts of that 9-2-1 and that line wasn't producing at all anymore.

9 points in 11 games. And a 21 year old had a slump so he is banished from center for the rest of the year?

But last year Desharnais had what 3 points in his first 20 games but kept on pluggin away on the top line?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Well his line was producing at about 1ppg, and the team scored over 3g a game during that stretch. So even if it weren't because of them, why change it when you're scoring the most you have all year and your record is great?

You're not making sense.

And regardless of all of this, not playing him at a center had some other effects :

1. Didn't kill DD's trade value so we can move him this summer
2. Keep Galchenyuk's opportunities artificially low in his out of ELC contract year so we can sign him cheaper
3. Made us more balanced offensively (Galchenyuk is a better top 6 winger than DD)

Let's see what happens this summer. Perhaps you will get your wish. I would be surprised if we went with the same setup at center.

 

[Nynja*]

So that 9-2-1 was entirely a function of Galchenyuk playing center ?

If you are honest with yourself, you will agree that Galchenyuk had slowed down considerably in the later parts of that 9-2-1 and that line wasn't producing at all anymore.

"da record" is all that matters...who cares how they got "da record", thats what you told us all season when we were talking about how all our stats minus goaltending were in the *******.

 

[Compile]

Bergevin said he hasn't shown that he is capable of playing center yet, what more do you want? Guess whose opinion I'm going with? Why play him at center if he isn't capable yet. Give him another year, he's young, why rush him. Half the posters on here think Therrien is incapable of developing players, yet one of the best ways to ruin a player is to rush him. Patience comrads.

The same posters say "Oh wow Andrigetto got 3 points in 3 games", give me a break, ever seen a player play well for a few games and then crash, want me to name a few, Chipchura, Latendresse, Dagostini, OByrne , Maxwell, Thomas, Pulushaj, Dumont, Engvist, Leblanc, Bournival. All these guys had spurts and amounted to nothing. I see nothing special in Andrighetto, will be surprised if he ever plays 100 NHL games, yet some on here are projecting him as a 3rd line player next year.

10 games is not enough to judge a players ability at anything. You can ask any scout, pro or amateur if they sit in the stands one game and say "ya he sucks."

Galchenyuk was playing center, the only difference is he didn't take faceoffs. He was the one helping out our defense men in our zone while DD sat at the blue line barely covering the point (as when the puck went to his side he would make no attempt to chip it out and allow the opposing dman to put it back into the zone).

The kid wants to play center. He plays like a center. Let him play center ffs. You don't develop a centerman on the wing. With that logic, we may as well put Fucale on D as that's the best way to learn how to stop the puck going into the net right?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

9 points in 11 games. And a 21 year old had a slump so he is banished from center for the rest of the year?

But last year Desharnais had what 3 points in his first 20 games but kept on pluggin away on the top line?

I'd say there are bigger consequences to a 20 year old 3rd overall pick struggling on Montreal's top line than a non-drafted stop gap midget.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

But why would it even matter?? If the rest of the team is doing great and we're still pulling victories?? Why change it?? If moving DD down to 3rd line makes him more effective, and our team is better for it, while Galchenyuk goes through his adjustment period at center, all the while the team is still winning, why change it??
Isn't that what you just argued for?? That if moving Galchenyuk to center helps the team win more, then he'd play there. Well now that you've been reminded that this is what actually happened, you're moving the goalposts to his line needing to be the catalyst? You're not being fair.

So are you with the pro or anti therrien system?
Because with his system we got 50 wins and had the second most point in the league.

 

[Nynja*]

So are you with the pro or anti therrien system?
Because with his system we got 50 wins and had the second most point in the league.

Thats nice...are games 3 and 4 of the ECF at the Bell Center because we had the second most point in the league?

 

[blarneylad]

I'd say there are bigger consequences to a 20 year old 3rd overall pick struggling on Montreal's top line than a non-drafted stop gap midget.

I really hope MB gets rid of said stop gap midget. Because if the habs continue to go with what they got they will only marginally improve.

They need some offensive help. One goal scorer, and functional powerplay and they are much closer. But to me, Desharnais was a major problem on the PP. If need be keep him 5 on 5 center with Patches. But no more PP time. Chuck as a 2nd line center with a finisher would be nice. Who that guy would be is beyond my knowledge.

But if you can get Eberle or even settle for Yakupov I don't care if the price is Plekanecs/Eller, Fucale and a 1st

Pacioretty said it best: "we didn't score enough goals". I love when it is broken down that simply. Get that powerplay going. At least Gauthier (whom I loathe) acquired Wizneski to inject some life in that PP. They need a Left hand canon on the point. Then the PK unit of opposing teams can't key on Subban so much. Opens up down low as the PK guys cheat high on the d. That is my ten cents.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

But why would it even matter?? If the rest of the team is doing great and we're still pulling victories?? Why change it?? If moving DD down to 3rd line makes him more effective, and our team is better for it, while Galchenyuk goes through his adjustment period at center, all the while the team is still winning, why change it??
Isn't that what you just argued for?? That if moving Galchenyuk to center helps the team win more, then he'd play there. Well now that you've been reminded that this is what actually happened, you're moving the goalposts to his line needing to be the catalyst? You're not being fair.

I'm not moving goalposts. I'm saying the fact he played center coincided with a win streak that may or may not have had much to do with Galchenyuk actually playing center. The line had went cold and was struggling in the later parts of that sequence, and I can only guess that the coaching staff felt that it was not sustainable. That or they wanted Galchenyuk to leave no doubts in anyone's minds he was the best option and not just spoon feed him the position.

Who's not being fair ? Me for thinking that the habs are trying to make moves in the best interest of the team, or HF who imagines conspiracy theories around MT/DD ?

I don't know what the actual reason is for not playing Galchenyuk at center this season. But if you think MT is not making moves he thinks will help him win more games then you're the one not being fair. Now, he could be wrong in his motivations, he could have motivations we haven't considered based on facts we're unaware of. I don't know. But you asked me a question why would the habs play Galchenyuk at center... and the answer is if they thought it would help them win more games now and in the future. I can only guess they felt it wasn't going to, right or wrong.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

"da record" is all that matters...who cares how they got "da record", thats what you told us all season when we were talking about how all our stats minus goaltending were in the *******.

So true.

Its follow blindly what coaches and management say even if it contradicts the last line of reasoning they used to defend these decisions.

 

[Kriss E]

And regardless of all of this, not playing him at a center had some other effects :

1. Didn't kill DD's trade value so we can move him this summer
2. Keep Galchenyuk's opportunities artificially low in his out of ELC contract year so we can sign him cheaper
3. Made us more balanced offensively (Galchenyuk is a better top 6 winger than DD)

Let's see what happens this summer. Perhaps you will get your wish. I would be surprised if we went with the same setup at center.

1- DD's value is low. I doubt he would fetch us much of anything. I don't think he'll get traded. I have no reason to believe that.
2- I would be much happier if Galchenyuk's value would be around 5-6M. That would mean he's had a terrific season.
3- Stats disagree. We produced more and won more with Galchenyuk centering Max. Albeit a small sample, but the point remains, we were scoring more and producing more, and yet that was changed. Why? That's the argument used in order to move Galchenyuk to center, that we would do it if it helps the team more. Stats tell us it did. So obviously, that is not the reason why he was removed.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not moving goalposts. I'm saying the fact he played center coincided with a win streak that may or may not have had much to do with Galchenyuk actually playing center. The line had went cold and was struggling in the later parts of that sequence, and I can only guess that the coaching staff felt that it was not sustainable. That or they wanted Galchenyuk to leave no doubts in anyone's minds he was the best option and not just spoon feed him the position.

I said you moved the goalpost because when I asked you why would they move Galchenyuk at center you said they would do it if they felt it would help the team win more. I showed you that we were scoring and winning more, and then you switched it to Galchenyuk's line was no long as effective. So ya, that's exactly what changing the goalpost is. Fact of the matter, we were scoring and winning more with Galchenyuk at center. Would it have been sustainable? Maybe, maybe not. That's what people want. To find out.
It's the exact same argument for Eller. People aren't necessarily saying he's a top 2 center, or that we would be better. They just want to find out, and there's only one way to do that. Trying it out.

Who's not being fair ? Me for thinking that the habs are trying to make moves in the best interest of the team, or HF who imagines conspiracy theories around MT/DD ?

They don't think there's a conspiracy. They feel there's a massive problem with how they identified certain players.

I don't know what the actual reason is for not playing Galchenyuk at center this season. But if you think MT is not making moves he thinks will help him win more games then you're the one not being fair. Now, he could be wrong in his motivations, he could have motivations we haven't considered based on facts we're unaware of. I don't know. But you asked me a question why would the habs play Galchenyuk at center... and the answer is if they thought it would help them win more games now and in the future. I can only guess they felt it wasn't going to, right or wrong.

No, of course not. I think Therrien believes it's what's best. I think every coach operates that way. I'm not even saying he's 100% wrong, I have my opinion on the matter, but it will never be confirmed until it's put to the test.
I personally do not think keeping Galchenyuk at the wing is the best route to take both for him and for the team. I feel we are simply wasting time with Plek-DD as our top 2 centers. We are not going to win the cup with those guys in those two roles. Not unless we bring in massive talent on the wing, which is way, way much harder than just moving Galchenyuk there and signing top 6-9 talent. We have seen many other centers throughout the years not nearly as offensively as gifted as Galchenyuk who also struggled defensively, Eller and DD, being the two most recent ones.
It's not exclusive to just our team too, since when has a center been expected to be good defensively otherwise he's moved to the wing?? It's a crappy cop out excuse from Bergevin. It made me think about the Thornton-Wilson situation in San Jose where Thornton publicly said Wilson needs to stop lying and shut his mouth for talking about removing the ''C''.
Bergevin's excuse for Galchenyuk not playing center was just pure garbage. Be honest and say it's because of a lack of depth at center, don't make up crap about him not good enough to play center, and maybe never will. I mean, at least if they had used Galchenyuk for 20-30 games where Galchenyuk struggled to put up points, made a bunch of mistakes and the team suffered from it, then okay. But when you used him for 12 games, went 9-2-1, where he put up close to a 1ppg??? It's pretty terrible.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Did we have that record because Galchenyuk was playing center ?

This is just just a dishonest argument.

No matter if Galchenyuk playing center was the reason we went 9-2-1 or not, Galchenyuk playing center didnn't make the team lose more game. So he must have done something right. Yeah of course that line "slowed down" a little... Did you expect the Habs playing at that pace for the rest of the season? It was Galchenyuk very first stunt at center for a long period of time. You seem to only concentrate on the negative and completely ignore the fact that Galchenyuk has nothing to envy DD or Plekanec in those 12-15 games.

 

[Takeru]

Bergevin said he hasn't shown that he is capable of playing center yet, what more do you want? Guess whose opinion I'm going with? Why play him at center if he isn't capable yet. Give him another year, he's young, why rush him. Half the posters on here think Therrien is incapable of developing players, yet one of the best ways to ruin a player is to rush him. Patience comrads.

The same posters say "Oh wow Andrigetto got 3 points in 3 games", give me a break, ever seen a player play well for a few games and then crash, want me to name a few, Chipchura, Latendresse, Dagostini, OByrne , Maxwell, Thomas, Pulushaj, Dumont, Engvist, Leblanc, Bournival. All these guys had spurts and amounted to nothing. I see nothing special in Andrighetto, will be surprised if he ever plays 100 NHL games, yet some on here are projecting him as a 3rd line player next year.

Please stop. Seriously, this is getting repetitive. Let me turn the question around: what more do you want for him to play center? Now bear with me for a second, as I'm in no way a pro at developping young players, and maybe you are so you could explain it to me, but you'd think a good way to develop a center and assess if a guy can actually play top C on a team would be .... simple as actually playing him at that position. No?

Which he did this year, with decent sucess, yet at the first sign of slowing down, he was instantly demoted. Don't kid yourself, there's a single reason why he isn't playing center yet. I'll give you a hint, it starts with a D.

 

[Bob b smith]

1- DD's value is low. I doubt he would fetch us much of anything. I don't think he'll get traded. I have no reason to believe that.
.

The couple of times I heard in the news an insider perspective on his value, it was to say he had none, or had negative value. No one in the league's interested in DD. True or not, the perceived value to the team by MT and MB is much bigger than his league value. So the chances of him being traded are slim to none.

 

[Takeru]

Its not people unhappy with the last two years as it is the mentality of the organization

They are talking transition yet seem happy with current roster. There love with DD and coaching staff goes against moving towards a Cup contender. Lots of excuse and not looking to progress. Thats peoples issues

That and the fact that we're many steps away from the cup but don't expect big changes guys. We should make a list out of these.

For guys that came in three years ago with the "NO excuses" slogan, sure didn't take long to forget about it. If we make no changes, we might miss playoffs next season, I guess the excuse will be injuries or something similar. But we're progressing right?

 

[Compile]

If anyone brings up that Galchenyuk got has his points while playing center in 1 game I shall point to Pacioretty.

42% of his playoff points came in 1 game, which was a blow out. In 6 of 11 games he failed to register a single point.

Was he removed from the top line? No. There are more players that score in spurts then there are consistent scorers. The difference is, other teams don't start shuffling **** around after a 2 game slump.

As long as the player in question is not causing more goals to be scored against than for, then there is no reason to swap lines.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I'm not moving goalposts. I'm saying the fact he played center coincided with a win streak that may or may not have had much to do with Galchenyuk actually playing center. The line had went cold and was struggling in the later parts of that sequence, and I can only guess that the coaching staff felt that it was not sustainable. That or they wanted Galchenyuk to leave no doubts in anyone's minds he was the best option and not just spoon feed him the position.

Who's not being fair ? Me for thinking that the habs are trying to make moves in the best interest of the team, or HF who imagines conspiracy theories around MT/DD ?

I don't know what the actual reason is for not playing Galchenyuk at center this season. But if you think MT is not making moves he thinks will help him win more games then you're the one not being fair. Now, he could be wrong in his motivations, he could have motivations we haven't considered based on facts we're unaware of. I don't know. But you asked me a question why would the habs play Galchenyuk at center... and the answer is if they thought it would help them win more games now and in the future. I can only guess they felt it wasn't going to, right or wrong.

It came out later from the horse' mouth Galchenyuk was pulled off center for the express purpose of getting Desharnais going again, as he was struggled to produce outside Pacioretty.

 

[DAChampion]

I often worry that Bergevin wants a team of players like himself, of mediocre players. Maybe he doesn't like stars because he resented them as a player.

The thing about Desharnais is that he's mediocre, so Bergevin might see aa lot of himself in Desharnais. Galchenyuk, in contrast, has the potential to be an elite player which would lead to the kind of dynamics that Bergevin didn't like when he played.

 

[OldCraig71]

After watching a portion of Bergevins press conference I came to the conclusion that he and Therrien are essentially the same guy and that is dangerous for the Habs.

MB and MT will have to be fired together and guys like Eller and Galchenyuk have no future here, Two of the best young centers we have on the roster will have to go Eller is hated by MT until he needs him, MB says chucky may never be a center, that is what he said, he sees him as a winger. in the same way he sees Desharnais as a number one center. The team will be the same next year. I didn't watch it all but did he mention how Prices play took a realistically 16th-20th place team to 110 points? Does he believe that scoring 2 goals or less per game is a recipe for success? Bergevin is not what I thought he was, I thought he had a vision of how to build a winning team but he does not, both he and Therrien are feeding off the best player in the league that we have in net and that is very sad. Price wont always be here, you mark my words, I see a Patrick Roy like end for him in Montreal.