HF Habs: Off-Season Discussion (Part Duh)

[OldCraig71]

I often worry that Bergevin wants a team of players like himself, of mediocre players. Maybe he doesn't like stars because he resented them as a player.

The thing about Desharnais is that he's mediocre, so Bergevin might see aa lot of himself in Desharnais. Galchenyuk, in contrast, has the potential to be an elite player which would lead to the kind of dynamics that Bergevin didn't like when he played.

There is one other thing about him that they like as well.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Anytime someone brings up the record I cringe. How many teams have had great regular season records and been crap in the playoffs?

Caps, Pens, Bues, Sharks, Canucks, etc....

Record means **** all if you are crap in the playoffs. I'll place the record on the shoulders of a few players and not the coach. The coach has done all he could to stifle this team. Development of our youth is poor at best. When has MT ever been known to develop young players anyways? We had this clown in our system before and STILL decided to bring him back. Now the centerman we drafted 3 years ago is nowhere to be seen. Eller is stapled to the 3rd line and 0 PP time. This is madness.

 

[DAChampion]

Have we been playoff crap under Therrien?

In three years, The habs have won three rounds and 17 games.

Though they were totally dominated by the 2013 Senators and 2014 Rangers, they made it a series against Tampa Bay this year.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Have we been playoff crap under Therrien?

In three years, The habs have won three rounds and 17 games.

Though they were totally dominated by the 2013 Senators and 2014 Rangers, they made it a series against Tampa Bay this year.

In 2013 Habs were the favorite and got easily destroyed. 2014 against the Rangers were flat out bad. Tampa last year had a host of injuries and an AHL goalie. I don't even count that series...but even if we do...Habs still finished ahead of Tampa, had the better playoff built team and lost the first 3 games. IMO, Tampa coasted a bit and that's where MTL won a few games to make things respectable. When Tampa got their minds right, Habs were easily beat.

Still, Habs had a better record...and as such should have won that series. People like to talk about the record only when it benefits their argument.

Jim Harbaugh of the SF 49ers went to the SB and was sen packing 2 seasons later. Why? Because despite winning, he could not generate any OFFENSE. Just like MT. It's not even about MT trying different things and just not being able to get results. He continues to push a square peg in a round hole and expects results. Does the record matter if the players are getting worse? If the talent is misused? If the prospects are not developing? What does this season mean in 3 years if we're still in transition?

Are we looking for cups or regular season trophies?

I'd have no problem with MT if he didn't coach like a pompous dnosaur.

 

[Lshap]

Have we been playoff crap under Therrien?

In three years, The habs have won three rounds and 17 games.

Though they were totally dominated by the 2013 Senators and 2014 Rangers, they made it a series against Tampa Bay this year.

This thread is not about keeping perspective and building on what we have. This thread is about mourning the loss of the 2015/16 season because Bergevin didn't provide the list of next season's trades and call-ups at his press conference.

 

[otto bond]

I don't think MB is gonna rid himself of MT weather we like it or not. Without a cup, no matter who's there, complains department is gonna be full(with some of mine complains also) but one thing is for sure, there's something to built with the Canadiens, it's Price, Subban and Patches.
There is not much IMO in the AHL and the prospect pool that makes you go wow but there are a few interesting pieces like McCarron, Huddon, Sherback and Tinordi.

The Habs need help down the middle and have some asset to move. I heard whispers that Malkin could be available but no way this is true so what could be a realistic scenario and who?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

It came out later from the horse' mouth Galchenyuk was pulled off center for the express purpose of getting Desharnais going again, as he was struggled to produce outside Pacioretty.

Yes, the habs are willingly making decisions to get DD going to the detriment of the team's success because they love DD so much and hate Eller/Galchenyuk. This is THE reason and you have uncovered it.

 

[deandebean]

Did we have that record because Galchenyuk was playing center ?

Did we have that record because Desharnais was playing center instead?

Therrien brought back the shrimp at centet only because he did not want to disrupt the room. It was evident that Desharnais did not appreciate being on the wing. He even repeated it the other day when they cleared lockers. Heck, he said something cryptic about the powerplay that puzzled me. And makes me think the guy is pissing vinegar on his coach.

 

[sharks9]

In 2013 Habs were the favorite and got easily destroyed. 2014 against the Rangers were flat out bad. Tampa last year had a host of injuries and an AHL goalie. I don't even count that series...but even if we do...Habs still finished ahead of Tampa, had the better playoff built team and lost the first 3 games. IMO, Tampa coasted a bit and that's where MTL won a few games to make things respectable. When Tampa got their minds right, Habs were easily beat.

Still, Habs had a better record...and as such should have won that series. People like to talk about the record only when it benefits their argument.

Jim Harbaugh of the SF 49ers went to the SB and was sen packing 2 seasons later. Why? Because despite winning, he could not generate any OFFENSE. Just like MT. It's not even about MT trying different things and just not being able to get results. He continues to push a square peg in a round hole and expects results. Does the record matter if the players are getting worse? If the talent is misused? If the prospects are not developing? What does this season mean in 3 years if we're still in transition?

Are we looking for cups or regular season trophies?

I'd have no problem with MT if he didn't coach like a pompous dnosaur.

We had the exact same number of wins as Tampa but just lost 2 extra games in OT. You're making it sound like we should've been overwhelming favourites and it's an embarrassment that we lost to them.

Saying we've been crap in the playoffs is straight up ******** when you compare us to other teams around the league.

 

[deandebean]

Now you have proof that management thinks as one. And munity won't change that. Therrien is here for at least three more seasons. And thosr on the team that hate his guts will be dealt with accordingly. What Bergevin said regarding Chucky yesterday was full of nonsense. But was said strategically. He wanted to let Chucky himself know that he's behind his coach's decision.

 

[cajmonkey]

Am I the only person who heard MB say something like "maybe chucky doesn't even want to play center?"

This, a few days after chucky stated on record that he wants to play center next season.

My jaw dropped.

 

[Takeru]

The only way Bergevin's comments about Galchenyuk at center could be justified would be because of his impending contract negociations. I can understand not wanting to give ammo to his agent by throwing flowers at Chucky and saying publicly he wants to make him our next top center.

That is still under the assumption that none of what was said yesterday truly reflects what Bergevin thinks. Guess we'll have to wait until September to find out.

 

[habtastic]

It's not that we haven't had success. I'm pretty sure any of the well-seasoned coaches in the NHL would have done just as well as Therrien has done with these Habs teams, particularly thanks to the goalie. The difference lies in when we get to that critical point, whether vs. the rangers or this year vs. Tampa, MT seems to always fall back on the stuff that doesn't work and gets outcoached. There is also little parity among coaches in this league.

That's why it's so crucial that we have one who knows how to adapt and who isn't stubborn. Therrien is not and will never be a championship coach in the NHL. On top of that, he stifles more growth than he produces -- which is usually elevating the Dale Weises of the world cuz they are forced to become heroes rather than the ones who are built for it. (That was a sad breakaway though and I really like Weise.)

Priorities in this organization seemed to be right until about midway this season and then it's just been going downward with a special emphasis during MB's PC. The emperor has no clothes. (And I don't mean that toga.)

 

[t0ny]

This thread is not about keeping perspective and building on what we have. This thread is about mourning the loss of the 2015/16 season because Bergevin didn't provide the list of next season's trades and call-ups at his press conference.

Pretty much

 

[lo striver]

That is still under the assumption that none of what was said yesterday truly reflects what Bergevin thinks.

so, the best case he was publicly lying and the worst is he is incompetent?

 

[habtastic]

Yes, the habs are willingly making decisions to get DD going to the detriment of the team's success because they love DD so much and hate Eller/Galchenyuk. This is THE reason and you have uncovered it.

Honestly, it's not that absurd of a suggestion. I think they thought short term detriment, long term DD-mediated success.

If they turn on Chucky, I'm pretty sure the fanbase will turn on them. Last straw sort of thing. Except for the Therriens of the world. (Gastons and otherwise.)

 

[SnapVirus]

We are a team that builds through the draft.

-We only have one prospect on Hockeysfuture top 50 prospects. And hes ranked 46th. Keep up the good work!

-We havent draft in the 2nd round, two years in a row. Great way to gain prospects, keep it up!

 

[habtastic]

This thread is not about keeping perspective and building on what we have. This thread is about mourning the loss of the 2015/16 season because Bergevin didn't provide the list of next season's trades and call-ups at his press conference.

It is about perspective and building. That's precisely why everyone is so disappointed. Many of us see a bright future and MB almost explicitly stated that he'll do everything (intended or not) to cast a dark shadow over it as a result of his extremely convoluted thinking. OK talk for 2013. Not for 2015.

Basically, his message: Guys, the NHL is really hard for a GM. I am pretty much powerless as a consequence of our success.

 

[habtastic]

Now you have proof that management thinks as one. And munity won't change that. Therrien is here for at least three more seasons. And thosr on the team that hate his guts will be dealt with accordingly. What Bergevin said regarding Chucky yesterday was full of nonsense. But was said strategically. He wanted to let Chucky himself know that he's behind his coach's decision.

Well, at least the organization is climbing out of the dark days.

 

[t0ny]

It is about perspective and building. That's precisely why everyone is so disappointed. Many of us see a bright future and MB almost explicitly stated that he'll do everything (intended or not) to cast a dark shadow over it as a result of his extremely convoluted thinking. OK talk for 2013. Not for 2015.

Basically, his message: Guys, the NHL is really hard for a GM. I am pretty much powerless as a consequence of our success.

I don't give a **** about what he said or what he will say especially in a press conference. I'am more interested in what he did or does.
Dark shadows were there under Gainey/gauthier imo now there is place for hope

 

[habtastic]

I don't give a **** about what he said or what he will say especially in a press conference. I'am more interested in what he did or does.
Dark shadows were there under Gainey/gauthier imo now there is place for hope

If he didn't seem so unnerved, uncomfortable and genuine in his positions, I wouldn't care either. It really is more to do with how he said things than the nature of those things.

I think Gainey and Gauthier did good, bad, horrible, superb things. Bergevin had until now been on the good side of things on average, also considering he's 'new'. The place for hope thing is all well and good. It turns into a tragedy if a new hope ends up not going according to plan and the rebellion gets annihilated at Yavin.

I too look forward to seeing what he does, but he was spewing bucket loads of excrement during that presser, that is worthy of alarm. Methinks the new era Habs has hit a critical juncture, and the plan doesn't seem to inspire much confidence. He talked about "Charlie" Hudon, Sherbak, Ghetto, but really, his coach would ruin them. You think he'd treat Toews and Kane (who he can't stop forcing down our throats) the same way? They were a crap team WITH those two until Quenneville came in and got that place into tip top shape. Sure, it was a year later, but they were just as well acclimated to the NHL under Savard.

 

[Mathletic]

But it does provide context. We have no one barring Galchenyuk's path besides a stubborn coach who has a pet. You also ignore all of those players played center and struggled, whereas Galchenyuk hasn't. Therrien refuses to even let him get his feet wet, except midway through this season. And what do you know. Galchenyuk put up 9 points in 11 games!

You also said yourself "because they needed him at that spot." So Forsberg's shift to the wing was temporary. This is also his first season in the league, not his third. People weren't complaining when Galchenyuk was 18. In fact, no one is even asking this be a permanent shift. What I want to see is a genuine commitment to Galchenyuk at center. If he's struggles after say, 20ish games, then you move him back to the wing. You know, kind of how Therrien allowed Desharnais the same amount of leeway. Fancy that, eh?

and you don't think there's any validity to the questionning of his defensive play given his 46.8 CF% adjusted with Max (given all the ozone and nzone starts he got)? Not saying the coaching staff stoped playing him at center because of his CF% but maybe it's something that pops out very clearly on video. Heard Nilan talk about this yesterday on TSN (not the CORSI part but the defensive play at center). Also with LeBrun, Ward, Tremblay reporting various stuff regarding Galchenyuk having to grow up. Perhaps Galchenyuk wasn't receptive to the coach's comments.

 

[WeThreeKings]

and you don't think there's any validity to the questionning of his defensive play given his 46.8 CF% adjusted with Max (given all the ozone and nzone starts he got)? Not saying the coaching staff stoped playing him at center because of his CF% but maybe it's something that pops out very clearly. Heard Nilan talk about this yesterday on TSN (not the CORSI part but the defensive play at center). Also with LeBrun, Ward, Tremblay reporting various stuff regarding Galchenyuk having to grow up. Perhaps Galchenyuk wasn't receptive to the coach's comments.

Would you be?

Every time Therrien opens his mouth to speak I want to smash my face in with a Wok.

There is 0 incentive to want to work for a boss who has no idea what he is doing, is an egotistical, tyrannical, and ignorant moron who can't adapt, change, evaluate his system or accept reality. Not to mention displays blatant favortism and bias toward specific players.

 

[blarneylad]

The only way Bergevin's comments about Galchenyuk at center could be justified would be because of his impending contract negociations. I can understand not wanting to give ammo to his agent by throwing flowers at Chucky and saying publicly he wants to make him our next top center.

That is still under the assumption that none of what was said yesterday truly reflects what Bergevin thinks. Guess we'll have to wait until September to find out.

I'm hoping it is all chess moves.

Because if he holds true to his word I won't be pleased at all with the direction of the 15-16 season.

But I think they will acquire a top 6 player that can score.

They also need a Left hand shot on the point so both Subban and LH shot are weapons which draws some cover off of Subban

 

[Mathletic]

Would you be?

Every time Therrien opens his mouth to speak I want to smash my face in with a Wok.

There is 0 incentive to want to work for a boss who has no idea what he is doing, is an egotistical, tyrannical, and ignorant moron who can't adapt, change, evaluate his system or accept reality. Not to mention displays blatant favortism and bias toward specific players.

Not saying I'd like the guy but you're not there to like your coach. You're there to do your job and maybe Galchenyuk still thinks he's too cool for school. Speculation on my part though.