Rumor: OFF-SEASON AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XC

[cgf]

I think people are also underestimating how much Roy and Sakic see in Holden. I truly believe they see him as a very solid guy for that 3rd pairing that can slide up for the short term into the top 4.

Holden was even worse than Guenin during the first part of the season; see PWF-Holden's PWF-move-Goal; but he had a much better 2014 season than he gets credit for, and he got back on track in the second half of this past season when the team got its collective s*** together. That's why Holden - Stuart were a legitimately effective third pairing for us. That's also why I won't be surprised if Roy is comfortable with switching Holden up to Barrie's side if Zads needs to be sheltered for a spell in the Holden role next to Stuart...so long as Zads-Barrie don't click as beautifully as they eventually will, right off of the bat. It won't be ideal, but honestly it won't be bad and will be more than enough for this team to take a big step this year.

Beach-EJ should be the kind of pairing we can really lean on the while the guys lower down the pipeline sort themselves out; provided we limit Beauchemin's special teams minutes as much as possible to keep him from wearing down sooner than he already will. And that legit top pairing will be a huge difference; even if Zads isn't as ready as some here hope, and Holden has to play a bigger role than many here would like. If we are healthy back there, I'm going to be pleased with a sextet of Kondor, Barrie, Beauch, Zads, *** Stuart, and Holden, holding off Bigras and Siemens; even if the early season pairings aren't what I'm hoping for. Cause it may not start off great and it may take time to come together; but that unit could be really damn good once they settle in and Patty can work that Roy-magic, that helped EJ and Barrie break out, while squeezing competence out of Hejda/Stuart/Holden, on Zadorov.

Ok, that's it. I'm never posting an a instagram on here again. Y'all are on your own.

This is the internet, we may seem charming at first, but it is safe to assume that we are all horrible people...or may be it's just me...

 

[tucker3434]

Not sure where to post this, but NHL Network is airing the 2001 game 7 in its entirety tonight at 6PM EST. Set your DVR's if you haven't already.

 

[Bender]

IMO the Avs are done adding defensemen for the summer. They will go into the season with Beauch and Zadorov on the left side in the top 4. A major injury could change that, but beyond that I don't see them adding to the 8 they have (but that is pure speculation on my part). I can't say I blame them either. If Zadorov is ready for the minutes (and they seem to think he is), it is better for his development to play a bigger role this season.

Now with forwards... say Boyes is still out there come early September. I could easily see the Avs bringing him in for a year.



He really wasn't good last year. Now he was hurt for a lot of the season, but Beauch was way, way better last season. When Ehrhoff is playing well and healthy he is probably better than Beauch, but it has been a while now since that was the case.

Agreed. However, IF there is a major injury to Barrie, Beachemin or EJ for 2-3 months, then there's a chance you end up at the end of the season on the outside looking in, wondering what the hell just happened.

For me, the issue was always signing Ehrhoff to that 2nd year but if he's willing to go 1 year, the Avs NEED to be in on this...they can figure out who is going to play where and with who as the season progresses.

Sure there's a good chance that Zadorov will be ready to play a big role with the team but there's also a chance that a 20 year old kid might need some time to grow into that role. Obviously, that's where your safety net in Ehrhoff comes in.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

This is a ways out still, but I'd love Ladd on this team if he reaches free agency. Unfortunately, I don't think I'd love what it would take to add Ladd.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Agreed. However, IF there is a major injury to Barrie, Beachemin or EJ for 2-3 months, then there's a chance you end up at the end of the season on the outside looking in, wondering what the hell just happened.

For me, the issue was always signing Ehrhoff to that 2nd year but if he's willing to go 1 year, the Avs NEED to be in on this...they can figure out who is going to play where and with who as the season progresses.

Sure there's a good chance that Zadorov will be ready to play a big role with the team but there's also a chance that a 20 year old kid might need some time to grow into that role. Obviously, that's where your safety net in Ehrhoff comes in.

Yea, if Ehrhoff is willing to take a one year the Avs should be looking into getting him here. Roy loves Holden though, so I think the D is pretty much set considering two of Stuart, Holden, Guenin and Redmond will already be on the outside looking in.

 

[lonelybadger]

Sign Ehrhoff trade Holden + Bleackley for Ladd....done....

Was holden as bad as his numbers were or do the advanced stats paint a different picture?

 

[Freudian]

Sign Ehrhoff trade Holden + Bleackley for Ladd....done....

Was holden as bad as his numbers were or do the advanced stats paint a different picture?

He was overused and quite bad. He's too slow and doesn't have the hockey smarts to compensate to ever be a good NHLer.

He seems like a nice guy and I guess Roy likes that he has a big frame but I just don't see it with Holden. Never did.

I guess it's possible he'll be able to keep his head barely above water if he plays 17 minutes a night, but I'd rather move on. I don't think Avs will though.

 

[Former Ladder]

He was overused and quite bad. He's too slow and doesn't have the hockey smarts to compensate to ever be a good NHLer.

He seems like a nice guy and I guess Roy likes that he has a big frame but I just don't see it with Holden. Never did.

I guess it's possible he'll be able to keep his head barely above water if he plays 17 minutes a night, but I'd rather move on. I don't think Avs will though.

I think if Holden was a little better skater and had a decent amount more hockey IQ that he would be a great #5-#6 defenseman. Unfortunately, he is already around 30 so the likelihood of any increase in either is greatly diminished. Luckily, we only need him to play for another year or so before the youngins take over.

 

[lonelybadger]

I think if Holden was a little better skater and had a decent amount more hockey IQ that he would be a great #5-#6 defenseman. Unfortunately, he is already around 30 so the likelihood of any increase in either is greatly diminished. Luckily, we only need him to play for another year or so before the youngins take over.

Thanks for the responses. I didn't get to watch the avs as much as I usually do (IE i didn't watch every minute of every game) so I was not sure if it was just me who noticed he is big guy who can't skate well that is getting misused due to depth issues or just generally should not be in the nhl

 

[Pokecheque]

For a big guy with decent hands and good reach Holden is astoundingly terrible at protecting the puck. I feel like his first year success was largely because opposing teams just didn't key in on him all that much. Once checkers started paying attention to him though, he was exposed. It's way too easy to pressure him when he has the puck in the defensive zone.

Defensively he was always a complete trainwreck unless he was lucky enough to pound someone into the boards at the blue line. I still think he could serve a role as a #7 guy who gets spot duty on the power play, but anything above that is a big no-no. Furthermore, I feel like there are already better options out there, and possibly in the system.

Much as I hate his current extension, I realize the $$$ are by no means crippling. I just despised the timing of it. They could've waited at least one more season or partially into it before pulling the trigger. It's not uncommon for a guy not to live up to a new and lucrative extension, but it's something else when he fails to live up to an extension a full year before it even kicks in.

 

[tucker3434]

Both Stuart and Holden had some pretty awful advanced stats, but they were also 2nd and 4th in QOC respectively. I'd like to hope that their QOC would get easier, but Hejda was 3rd in QOC and Barrie was near the bottom. Beauchemin will definitely take over the number 2 spot, but I'd imagine Zadorov and Barrie will be given a lot of offensive opportunities. So, I'd bet Stuart and Holden will still finish 3-4 in QOC. Gross. We sure we can't fit Ehrhoff?

Edit: On the plus side, Nate Guenin was easily our worst advanced stat player. He was given minutes not much more difficult than Barrie, but was dead last in relative Corsi. I'll be absolutely shocked if Zadorov isn't much better.

 

[Pokecheque]

The biggest reason I hate guys like Guenin and Holden is that they force the team to be the exact opposite of what makes them succeed--a passive defensive club that has to yield the neutral zone virtually every shift and give the opposition all the time in the world to set up an attack.

Love or hate advanced stats, one thing they have revealed is that the team that dominates the neutral zone pretty much dictates what happens in the game. Holden can't do much in the neutral zone or really even hold the zone period because he knows if anyone gets behind him it's off to the races, and as a result he constantly scurries back to his own blue line (if one could call it scurrying) the moment he senses trouble. Guenin is almost as bad.

 

[dahrougem2]

As a 3rd pairing defensemen and only that, I don't mind Holden. He's big, he actually uses his body both in the corner and in front of the net, and will give you the odd goal every now and then. Much rather him on the 3rd pairing than players like Guenin or Redmond. And the money he makes is 3rd pairing money, so I don't mind.

 

[mikem81]

The stuart/guenin/holden extensions would make sense if they were made by a team like arizona/edmonton/buffalo. Teams that just are not good, will not be good for those 2-3 years and want to spend a little bit too much on lower level guys because they show up to work everyday, don't cause any trouble, and work hard. For the Avs especially with the iginla signing indicating they are in playoff now mode it makes no sense to be employing all 3.

 

[dahrougem2]

The stuart/guenin/holden extensions would make sense if they were made by a team like arizona/edmonton/buffalo. Teams that just are not good, will not be good for those 2-3 years and want to spend a little bit too much on lower level guys because they show up to work everyday, don't cause any trouble, and work hard. For the Avs especially with the iginla signing indicating they are in playoff now mode it makes no sense to be employing all 3.

So who do you suggest the Avalanche play on the 3rd pairing?

You can't force defensemen to play here. If this team didn't have Holden, Guenin, or Stuart our defence would have looked even worse last season. There are only so many free agent defensemen to go around and there are 29 other teams trying to sign them.

 

[UncleRisto]

So the game worn jersey auction started again. Can't wait to get my Francois Tremblay game issued on the wall. Seriously though, would be sweet to try my luck on some of those game issued prospect jerseys to see if the starting bet wins but I can't... Actually, Bigras and Siemens already have a bid on them.

 

[InjuredChoker]

So who do you suggest the Avalanche play on the 3rd pairing?

You can't force defensemen to play here. If this team didn't have Holden, Guenin, or Stuart our defence would have looked even worse last season. There are only so many free agent defensemen to go around and there are 29 other teams trying to sign them.

a traffic cone would've done as good job as guenin.

at least if you have to play as bad guys there, don't pay them much. that applies to guenin but he's AHLer. likes of volchenkov were available for 1 mil. yeah, he's not good but neither are those guys. this offseason there have been much better dman available for cheap. even oduya went for similar deal that stuart has.

 

[tucker3434]

So who do you suggest the Avalanche play on the 3rd pairing?

You can't force defensemen to play here. If this team didn't have Holden, Guenin, or Stuart our defence would have looked even worse last season. There are only so many free agent defensemen to go around and there are 29 other teams trying to sign them.

Hejda and Ehrhoff would be pretty awesome. Both unsigned.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Hejda and Ehrhoff would be pretty awesome. Both unsigned.

i don't think hejda is anywhere near awesome anymore..

 

[tigervixxxen]

Both Stuart and Holden had some pretty awful advanced stats, but they were also 2nd and 4th in QOC respectively. I'd like to hope that their QOC would get easier, but Hejda was 3rd in QOC and Barrie was near the bottom. Beauchemin will definitely take over the number 2 spot, but I'd imagine Zadorov and Barrie will be given a lot of offensive opportunities. So, I'd bet Stuart and Holden will still finish 3-4 in QOC. Gross. We sure we can't fit Ehrhoff?

Edit: On the plus side, Nate Guenin was easily our worst advanced stat player. He was given minutes not much more difficult than Barrie, but was dead last in relative Corsi. I'll be absolutely shocked if Zadorov isn't much better.

For this reason I'm optimistic on what Zadorov can bring. I expect 20 year old mistakes and some raw play but he's replacing Nate Freaking Guenin. I don't think outsiders have wrapped their brain around this or realized just how much he played last year. That and Zadorov actually has some good stats for being on that dumpster fire of a team at 19 years old.

 

[agentblack]

I think the narrative with Holden and Guenin is that they are pet projects. I feel like the organization is tied to them both because they genuinely feel they can turn them both in good NHL d men. Every GM/Coaching staff has their "guys" they want to prop up and say "I did that , I discovered them and now they are all stars, Im a genius" So Roy will give every opportunity to Nick at Nate partly because there is no one else and partly because of an agenda

Also I think its time to put the Ehrhoff thing to bed. Twice we've had spots open for him and cap space and still nothing. Pretty clear to me he doesnt want to play for the Avs

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I don't think the Avs are going to make a move for Ehrhoff. He'd be a great pickup, but in my opinion, the Avs are going into camp hoping that Chris Bigras earns his way into the lineup. Whether it's opening night or midway through the year, I think they have Bigras in the plans this season.

For this reason I'm optimistic on what Zadorov can bring. I expect 20 year old mistakes and some raw play but he's replacing Nate Freaking Guenin. I don't think outsiders have wrapped their brain around this or realized just how much he played last year. That and Zadorov actually has some good stats for being on that dumpster fire of a team at 19 years old.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. Zadorov will make his mistakes, but he's replacing a bum. He's already a large upgrade.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I don't think the Avs are going to make a move for Ehrhoff. He'd be a great pickup, but in my opinion, the Avs are going into camp hoping that Chris Bigras earns his way into the lineup. Whether it's opening night or midway through the year, I think they have Bigras in the plans this season.

i don't think it'll be opening night, without injuries. no roster spots, i assume they aren't going to give up on holden so soon.

 

[tucker3434]

i don't think hejda is anywhere near awesome anymore..

He's better than what we've got.

 

[InjuredChoker]

He's better than what we've got.

in vacuum, i'd agree but the left side has only one dman who is an actual puckmover and mobile and he's 20. beauch can move the puck but he's not mobile.

hejda's issues in those areas got exposed pretty hard last year.