Line Combos: Odd man out? Heinen, Bjork, Donato...

[GloryDaze4877]

Bjork recovering will most likely needs time ..

I do believe he’s a top 9 easy tho, he’d really need to choke out before I’d write this kid off.

Heinen why is he even in here idk ? sophomore slump maybe ? Doubt it.

Heinen had more points than DeBrusk, yet it a candidate for “odd man out”.

HF Logic.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

After deciphering this one, why is Heinen on the 4th line after a 47 point rookie season? Also where is Kuraly?

In addition, there is zero chance Sweeney signed Moore for that money to sit behind Grizz.

 

[Bumper]

Grzelcyk is amazing -- salary does not equal line/position. the idea was spreading it out and making four lines that can score and showing that they don't need to limit a line to eight minutes per game. the original question was how can they all make top lines -- I see Heinen as the most fitting with fourth line play, but obviously he would cycle in for the other lefts on the fly, much like Moore would dress fairly often. Kuraly isn't on their official roster -- sorry for forgetting him. trade Acciari? keeping all of these talented dudes ready to contribute should be a fun project for the staff. too many players -- what a luxurios problem. ("decipher" was interesting -- it isn't like I used some nicknames, some misspellings, some jersey numbers... and there aren't two Nashes nor two Millers anymore.)

 

[37Bergenov14]

I voted heinen just because he's more in the "sweet spot" of being traded. Bjork is probably the odd man out in terms of raw likelihood to win a spot, but i dont think he holds enough value in a trade right now to make it worthwhile. Heinen could be a valuable part of a decently big trade. Donato is too early/risky to tell imo.

This all of course predicated on the notion that I dont think it is the best option for their developement to send any of them down (maaaybe donato).

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

Heinen had more points than DeBrusk, yet it a candidate for “odd man out”.

HF Logic.

I’m not in the Heinen odd man out camp. As of not, he’s my preferred option for 2nd line RW.

But he did play 1st PP for some time last year. Must have helped getting more pts than DeBrusk who got mainly 2nd PP time in the rare times the 1st PP didn’t score. haha

But Heinen gets high marks from me for producing 5 on 5 with no offensive talent Nash as his C. Was the best player on line 3 in the playoffs.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I’m not in the Heinen odd man out camp. As of not, he’s my preferred option for 2nd line RW.

But he did play 1st PP for some time last year. Must have helped getting more pts than DeBrusk who got mainly 2nd PP time in the rare times the 1st PP didn’t score. haha

But Heinen gets high marks from me for producing 5 on 5 with no offensive talent Nash as his C. Was the best player on line 3 in the playoffs.

More often than not, I recall Heinen getting 2nd and not 1st PP time?

Regardless, for the season, Heinen averaged 2:00 of PP time per game (12 pts) and DeBrusk averaged 1:48 (9 pts). So, the PP time was fairly even between the two of them.

 

[smithformeragent]

These things have a way of working themselves out.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Grzelcyk is amazing -- salary does not equal line/position. the idea was spreading it out and making four lines that can score and showing that they don't need to limit a line to eight minutes per game. the original question was how can they all make top lines -- I see Heinen as the most fitting with fourth line play, but obviously he would cycle in for the other lefts on the fly, much like Moore would dress fairly often. Kuraly isn't on their official roster -- sorry for forgetting him. trade Acciari? keeping all of these talented dudes ready to contribute should be a fun project for the staff. too many players -- what a luxurios problem. ("decipher" was interesting -- it isn't like I used some nicknames, some misspellings, some jersey numbers... and there aren't two Nashes nor two Millers anymore.)

I think the “deciphering” part was because you used the first 3 letters of the player’s last name in Upper Case? Guessing that FRE threw some people as did FOR instead of JFK or KAR (which I believe is his last name)??

Grammar aside, I’m having a hard time figuring out how/why Bjork, Donato and Cehlarik are all slotted ahead of Heinen. Particularly when Bjork had surgery that ended his year and was supposed to keep him out until August. In the best interests of four even lines is one thing, but so is putting your most talented players on the ice more often. Also, Nordstrom took a grand total of 77 faceoffs in 75 games and won 36 (47%). Both Kuraly and Wagner would appear to be better suited to play C than Nordstrom?

As far as the Grizz vs Moore debate...I like Grizz a lot, but he played 3rd pair all year, which was a contributing factor in why he looked so good. Both Moore and Krug played 2nd pair and it would seem logical to think that if you put one of those guys in that 3rd pair spot, they would be even better than Grizz. And while you brush off the salary aspect, Sweeney just signed Moore to a 5 year deal paying him $2.75m per and signed Grizz to a two year, $1.4m per deal. Given the disparity in pay at the same position, which player does common sense say the B’s are planning on utilizing more?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I voted heinen just because he's more in the "sweet spot" of being traded. Bjork is probably the odd man out in terms of raw likelihood to win a spot, but i dont think he holds enough value in a trade right now to make it worthwhile. Heinen could be a valuable part of a decently big trade. Donato is too early/risky to tell imo.

This all of course predicated on the notion that I dont think it is the best option for their developement to send any of them down (maaaybe donato).

What is a “sweet spot of being traded”? The only place I have seen this idea being embraced and talked about as if was an actual thing is on HF.

Here’s a novel idea. Now that the B’s have missed out on the two FA signings that would have cost them nothing but money, instead of trading Heinen, plus God knows what else, for a guy that probably put up 13 or so more points last year than the 23 year rookie old home grown prospect...

Put Heinen in the Top 6 with better teammates and possibly more TOI, and see how many more points he gives you. It might be a pleasant surprise.

 

[Bumper]

I see it not as a depth chart. I know that the merlot jerseys have been retired -- we aren't used to seeing this team stray too far that type of structure, but the point of my mockup was to show a way to spread this team deep without unbalancable holes to drive another team through. this is an amazingly deep roster. absolutely try to add a star, but from the hammock, not the panic.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

What is a “sweet spot of being traded”? The only place I have seen this idea being embraced and talked about as if was an actual thing is on HF.

Here’s a novel idea. Now that the B’s have missed out on the two FA signings that would have cost them nothing but money, instead of trading Heinen, plus God knows what else, for a guy that probably put up 13 or so more points last year than the 23 year rookie old home grown prospect...

Put Heinen in the Top 6 with better teammates and possibly more TOI, and see how many more points he gives you. It might be a pleasant surprise.

For my own curiosity...

Where do you see Heinen next year ideally?
Third line center or second line RW?

Personally, I'd rather see JFK and Frederic dominate the AHL before being promoted and Heinen (aside from Backes) is IMO our best option down the middle. Don't like the idea of moving Kuraly up (hate it actually). Don't believe Donato's experience at center was anything but a way to help his 3-zone development and not an indicator of future position.

But I also think he would rock the spot to the right of DeBrusk and Krejci. And I'm not sure what Heinen's comfort level is at pivot. Only know he can play there because you pointed it out.

What do you think?

 

[Bumper]

you'e sold me on that concept -- that left needs a release valve. (also fixes my error on believing that Nordstrom can appropriately play his listed position.)

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

7 voters now on Heinen....Do you guys just feel he's going to be traded? I just don't understand how a player coming off a 47 point rookie season doesn't fit in the Top 9 all of a sudden.

 

[Bumper]

he'll be there. but if the task is to explore a way to make room, people look to Krugs and Heinens. I wouldn't be keen to trade him, but I sure would let him be the sciring threat on a "lower" line. it'll play out well as long as no bad panic move is made to give away the house in chasing a single piece, as any given thing can go wrong. (an interesting thread might be "is there a single player the Bruins must dress for most of the year in order to make the playoffs?") something has to give and the sport points to injuries making this abundance look like sufficiency in short order. if the fruit starts to rot on the vine, they can trade toward that superstar for a cup run. exciting team, folks.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

For my own curiosity...

Where do you see Heinen next year ideally?
Third line center or second line RW?

Personally, I'd rather see JFK and Frederic dominate the AHL before being promoted and Heinen (aside from Backes) is IMO our best option down the middle. Don't like the idea of moving Kuraly up (hate it actually). Don't believe Donato's experience at center was anything but a way to help his 3-zone development and not an indicator of future position.

But I also think he would rock the spot to the right of DeBrusk and Krejci. And I'm not sure what Heinen's comfort level is at pivot. Only know he can play there because you pointed it out.

What do you think?

I would love to see the B's give him a shot at 3rd line C, but not sure it's in the cards? Sweeney already seems to have a man-crush on Studnicka, so maybe they are going to give him a shot. If Heinen is not going to be given a chance at C, I would like to see him in the Top 6 on the RW, either with Krejci or Bergeron.

 

[Pia8988]

I could see Heinen being passed over by Bjork regardless of his season though. I still look back to pre-season. I was expecting a competition between the young prospects. That never took place. Bjork was gifted the spot next to Bergeron and Marchand and DeBrusk was planted next to Krejci.

 

[37Bergenov14]

What is a “sweet spot of being traded”? The only place I have seen this idea being embraced and talked about as if was an actual thing is on HF.

Here’s a novel idea. Now that the B’s have missed out on the two FA signings that would have cost them nothing but money, instead of trading Heinen, plus God knows what else, for a guy that probably put up 13 or so more points last year than the 23 year rookie old home grown prospect...

Put Heinen in the Top 6 with better teammates and possibly more TOI, and see how many more points he gives you. It might be a pleasant surprise.

Make no mistake, I'd rather see Heinen stick around, and i do agree there is a very good possibility of continued growth with more ice time/top six role. But that could also be the case with all 3. I want to keep all 3 but the point of this thread was to make a choice (and it may not make sense organizationally to do so in the long run). By "sweet spot" I mean he would have significant value (likely more than the other two) while being able to be replaced by other similar depth at that position. I do not think that sentiment is unique to HF.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Make no mistake, I'd rather see Heinen stick around, and i do agree there is a very good possibility of continued growth with more ice time/top six role. But that could also be the case with all 3. I want to keep all 3 but the point of this thread was to make a choice (and it may not make sense organizationally to do so in the long run). By "sweet spot" I mean he would have significant value (likely more than the other two) while being able to be replaced by other similar depth at that position. I do not think that sentiment is unique to HF.

I have been involved with hockey for a long time and I have never (and I do mean never) seen a rookie put up nearly 50 pts in a season for a team. Then have so many fans of that team be willing to move that player the following offseason. That sentiment, as you put it, is far more prevalent here than any other outlet.

The premise of this thread (IMO) is not even accurate to begin with. First of all, Heinen is being included in a group of three with one prospect that showed some NHL promise before suffering two injuries, the second one for the season. The other prospect came out of college and looked good for his first 8-9 games, then started looking more and more like a rookie.

Heinen, on the other hand, had his ups and downs (like every rookie), but proved that he can play in this league and be productive over an entire season. If Heinen is included in the poll, why isn’t DeBrusk there as well? He fits your definition of “sweet spot” as much as Heinen, maybe more. The kid was 5th on the team in scoring while working up and down the lineup as needed, and people act as if he’s disposable because there are two/three unproven players behind him.

At this point, it would be pure speculation that Bjork or Donato could come in and score 50 points while playing responsible defensive hockey as well. Best case scenario, they turn out similar to DeBrusk and Heinen, and that’s a lot to ask.

I would be all for including Heinen, DeBrusk or any of the B’s prospects in a package that would bring back an impact player like a Panarin, but how likely is that? If the choice is deal them for someone that is older and a slight upgrade over what they did last year, or keep them...I stand pat. The fact that Sweeney was all over Tavares and Kovalchuk says to me pretty strongly that he wanted to add a Top 6 player without touching his base of young NHL players and high end prospects and I don’t think that has changed.

 

[BruinDust]

I have been involved with hockey for a long time and I have never (and I do mean never) seen a rookie put up nearly 50 pts in a season for a team. Then have so many fans of that team be willing to move that player the following offseason. That sentiment, as you put it, is far more prevalent here than any other outlet.

The premise of this thread (IMO) is not even accurate to begin with. First of all, Heinen is being included in a group of three with one prospect that showed some NHL promise before suffering two injuries, the second one for the season. The other prospect came out of college and looked good for his first 8-9 games, then started looking more and more like a rookie.

Heinen, on the other hand, had his ups and downs (like every rookie), but proved that he can play in this league and be productive over an entire season. If Heinen is included in the poll, why isn’t DeBrusk there as well? He fits your definition of “sweet spot” as much as Heinen, maybe more. The kid was 5th on the team in scoring while working up and down the lineup as needed, and people act as if he’s disposable because there are two/three unproven players behind him.

At this point, it would be pure speculation that Bjork or Donato could come in and score 50 points while playing responsible defensive hockey as well. Best case scenario, they turn out similar to DeBrusk and Heinen, and that’s a lot to ask.

I would be all for including Heinen, DeBrusk or any of the B’s prospects in a package that would bring back an impact player like a Panarin, but how likely is that? If the choice is deal them for someone that is older and a slight upgrade over what they did last year, or keep them...I stand pat. The fact that Sweeney was all over Tavares and Kovalchuk says to me pretty strongly that he wanted to add a Top 6 player without touching his base of young NHL players and high end prospects and I don’t think that has changed.

Two reasons why I think we see a different take on Heinen vs. Debrusk.

1) He wasn't productive over the entire season. Matter of fact his production takes a dramatic turn south after the first week of Feb. Just 10 pts. (5 G and 5 A) in his final 38 games (reg + playoffs). To contrast, he posted 38 of his 48 points in the 48 games previous.

Now is that because he hit a bit of a wall (not uncommon for guys coming out the NCAA and their short seasons, even for a 2nd year pro), or the increased pace of the stretch drive and playoffs, or his line-mates, or a combination of A, B and C? I'm not sure to be honest.

2) He did find himself a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Not saying it was deserved (even though he really didn't play well you have to admit). But when your a healthy scratch it will draw negative conclusions within the vaunted circle of HF Board GMs.

You can probably find the term "Trade Sweet Spot" in the glossary of the latest edition of Guide to being an NHL GM: HF Boards Edition.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Two reasons why I think we see a different take on Heinen vs. Debrusk.

1) He wasn't productive over the entire season. Matter of fact his production takes a dramatic turn south after the first week of Feb. Just 10 pts. (5 G and 5 A) in his final 38 games (reg + playoffs). To contrast, he posted 38 of his 48 points in the 48 games previous.

Now is that because he hit a bit of a wall (not uncommon for guys coming out the NCAA and their short seasons, even for a 2nd year pro), or the increased pace of the stretch drive and playoffs, or his line-mates, or a combination of A, B and C? I'm not sure to be honest.

2) He did find himself a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Not saying it was deserved (even though he really didn't play well you have to admit). But when your a healthy scratch it will draw negative conclusions within the vaunted circle of HF Board GMs.

You can probably find the term "Trade Sweet Spot" in the glossary of the latest edition of Guide to being an NHL GM: HF Boards Edition.

I’m totally with you on this.

Personally, I think the lack of continuity with Heinen’s linemates had a lot to do with his performance in the 2nd half. I give him lots of props for being able to play on any line, but I know that most players like to know where they are going to be every night.

I think the other part of the equation was the infamous “rookie wall”. I talked about this when Heinen came out of college and didn’t initially blow people’s socks off. I love Heinen’s overall game, but will be the first one to say that he’s not fastest guy, nor the biggest, nor does he have a killer shot (like say Vatrano). He plays a very cerebral game that has a lot of positioning and “hockey IQ” elements to it. Because of that, I think every level is an adjustment for him.

He was very good at the NCAA level, then turned pro. He was good, but not spectacular during the regular season. Then, come playoff time, he cranked it up, and averaged a point per game. This year, he takes the next step to the NHL, and it’s another adjustment. I was surprised at how well he produced this year to be honest. In the NHL, playoffs are a different level, and while I don’t think he played poorly, he didn’t produce either.

I fully expect him to come into this season knowing where the bar is set for regular season and playoffs and taking the next step in his development. Personally, I believe it would probably help tremendously if he got the treatment DeBrusk got and was allowed to work on one line all season. Not sure that will happen or not? A lot probably depends on how everyone looks in Camp and what the health status is of Bjork.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think if you put him in the Top 6 with 37/63, and leave him there, he puts up 60 pts.

 

[FluffyMcAvoy]

I, actually, think/hope all 3 play. Donato can replace Nash on the 3rd and Bjork can replace other Nash on the 2nd. Although I do want to see the top line split to spread the talent and scoring thread.

So we can have:
Marchand - Bergeron - Bjork/Pastrnak
DeBrusk - Krejci - Pastrnak/Bjork
Heinen - Backes - Donato
4th

 

[BruinDust]

I’m totally with you on this.

Personally, I think the lack of continuity with Heinen’s linemates had a lot to do with his performance in the 2nd half. I give him lots of props for being able to play on any line, but I know that most players like to know where they are going to be every night.

I think the other part of the equation was the infamous “rookie wall”. I talked about this when Heinen came out of college and didn’t initially blow people’s socks off. I love Heinen’s overall game, but will be the first one to say that he’s not fastest guy, nor the biggest, nor does he have a killer shot (like say Vatrano). He plays a very cerebral game that has a lot of positioning and “hockey IQ” elements to it. Because of that, I think every level is an adjustment for him.

He was very good at the NCAA level, then turned pro. He was good, but not spectacular during the regular season. Then, come playoff time, he cranked it up, and averaged a point per game. This year, he takes the next step to the NHL, and it’s another adjustment. I was surprised at how well he produced this year to be honest. In the NHL, playoffs are a different level, and while I don’t think he played poorly, he didn’t produce either.

I fully expect him to come into this season knowing where the bar is set for regular season and playoffs and taking the next step in his development. Personally, I believe it would probably help tremendously if he got the treatment DeBrusk got and was allowed to work on one line all season. Not sure that will happen or not? A lot probably depends on how everyone looks in Camp and what the health status is of Bjork.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think if you put him in the Top 6 with 37/63, and leave him there, he puts up 60 pts.

Good points. I could see that definitely. Although I don't put him with 63/37 (I despise the idea of separating Marchand and Pastrnak), but I'd happily put him on the RW of Debrusk-Krejci and leave him there. I think you'd get 50 pts at least and more in the 2nd half. You would think elevating the guy who posted 40+ points as a rookie last year would make more sense than inserting one of two rookies (Donato or Bjork) at that position. Let those two break in on the 3rd line and compete to move up by actually producing.

I'd also like to see him get some PK time., even if it meant less PP time. I've always said when I see Heinen I see Axelsson with better hands and offensive instincts. But his ability to track the puck and be in the right position are similar. To me he'd make a very good PKer with his high hockey IQ. Was somewhat surprised he didn't get more of a look there last year given his skill-set.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Quick question...

Does anybody know if Bjork has been cleared to train/practice yet? The original timeline after his surgery indicated that he would be able to resume training around August.

Hopefully, he has been able to do lower body stuff, so as not to be completely behind the 8 ball. Unfortunately, I think experience has shown that today’s athlete uses the offseason as a time to prep their bodies for the long hockey year. If Bjork has been unable to train, it is going to have a serious impact on his chances of making the team and potentially on his season as a whole.

 

[37Bergenov14]

I have been involved with hockey for a long time and I have never (and I do mean never) seen a rookie put up nearly 50 pts in a season for a team. Then have so many fans of that team be willing to move that player the following offseason. That sentiment, as you put it, is far more prevalent here than any other outlet.

I wasn't really speaking to what I was willing/wanting to see happen, only what I thought could happen. I am not low on Heinen.

The premise of this thread (IMO) is not even accurate to begin with. First of all, Heinen is being included in a group of three with one prospect that showed some NHL promise before suffering two injuries, the second one for the season. The other prospect came out of college and looked good for his first 8-9 games, then started looking more and more like a rookie.

Heinen, on the other hand, had his ups and downs (like every rookie), but proved that he can play in this league and be productive over an entire season. If Heinen is included in the poll, why isn’t DeBrusk there as well? He fits your definition of “sweet spot” as much as Heinen, maybe more. The kid was 5th on the team in scoring while working up and down the lineup as needed, and people act as if he’s disposable because there are two/three unproven players behind him.

To me the accuracy of the thread doesn't matter, I was simply playing along with the premise. Sure , DeBrusk could/should have been included but he wasn't. My response was operating within the vacuum created by the thread (pick amongst these three). And yes, he does fit that "sweet spot" I am talking about. Although I think you are really getting too hung up on my use of that word - all I meant was that he is a high value player in a position that we have a lot of organization depth.

At this point, it would be pure speculation that Bjork or Donato could come in and score 50 points while playing responsible defensive hockey as well. Best case scenario, they turn out similar to DeBrusk and Heinen, and that’s a lot to ask.

Agree - I'm not trying to say any player will simply and easily come in and replicate Heinen's productions.

I would be all for including Heinen, DeBrusk or any of the B’s prospects in a package that would bring back an impact player like a Panarin, but how likely is that? If the choice is deal them for someone that is older and a slight upgrade over what they did last year, or keep them...I stand pat. The fact that Sweeney was all over Tavares and Kovalchuk says to me pretty strongly that he wanted to add a Top 6 player without touching his base of young NHL players and high end prospects and I don’t think that has changed.

Yes, the only package I would be okay seeing someone like Heinen go in is for a high impact player, I never said I would like seeing him to go for less. And that sort of played into my thoughts that Heinen could be the odd man out out of the three. The Bruins don't need more marginal improvement players if we make a trade, we'd need a major piece/upgrade. So to me that means you have to give up quality pieces, and it would make sense for those pieces to come from a position we have depth in. If you can't get that, I'd agree I'd stand pat. But back to the OP, I'd hate to see any of these players have to go down to the AHL again (unless one or more really falter in camp) so it wouldn't be a complete shocker to me to see one traded (though if we can find an alternative way to fit em all, great!). And in that regard, I'd rather see Heinen go because I think he gives us the best chance (again, out of the 3 listed) to get an impact player.

 

[Bmessy]

Bjork if he doesn't learn how to keep his head up