Obscure hockey facts/stats

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Michael Farkas

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- Starting the comparison with the best from their group against the self-appointed "worst major-professional hockey team in...history" is definitely a major win for my point of view. That requires no follow-up whatsoever.

- Yes, some WHA players had no trouble at all. Some of their success was irrespective of the league (the Oilers contingent for instance) Similarly, numerous AHL players had no trouble at all. Eddie Joyal (who then faded out of the NHL, but reclaimed being a 20-goal scorer in his mid 30's when dumped into the WHA), Wayne Connelly (from WHL...kicked around towards the end of his NHL run, dumped into the WHA and immediately became a 40 goal scorer past his prime), Red Berenson, Ray Cullen, Mike McMahon on defense, an example of a player who jumped out of the AHL into the NHL, got swallowed under my an improving/adjusting league, got spit out in the WHA and resumed being a top pairing player in a weaker league...list goes on. So it's very possible as the AHL was just a regular minor league, but still players emerged. Players at the end of their leash had careers extended by the less rigurous, loosey-goosey WHA style...

- See already-made analogy about Russian vs North American junior hockey. Some top-end WHA teams that bought a top-six and a top-four and had good coaching could compete. Team A can beat Team B in a pinch. Does little for the stature of the league as a whole...otherwise, one might suggest the University of Minnesota could have competed in the Russian Super League in the early 80s...
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

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I know that for some reason that mystifies me, many people actually think that the KHL is a higher level than the AHL and is the 2nd highest league in the world. I consider this ludicrous.

Most people can't see past the handful of high-end Russians that do play in the KHL, for which there is no analog in the AHL. The reality is that past those 4-5 guys the talent level dips off considerable. Nigel Dawes, who was never anything more than an AHL second liner, is top-5 in league scoring. Brandon Yip, who washed out of the AHL 6 years ago, is Kunlun Red Star's leading scorer. Most KHL teams are ECHL-calibre, with a few that would be able to take on AHL teams.
 
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Burke's Evil Spirit

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What?! 63 points got the Kings into the playoffs? Does anyone know if any other teams made the playoffs with less than 63 points in an 80 game season? I know most teams made it back then (16 out of 21 teams I think) but that still sounds insane to me.

The Smythe division that season was a sight to behold:
TeamGPWLTPts
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Edmonton Oilers80481715111
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Vancouver Canucks8030331777
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Calgary Flames8029341775
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Los Angeles Kings8024411563
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Colorado Rockies8018491349
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

Michael Farkas

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Most people can't see past the handful of high-end Russians that do play in the KHL, for which there is no analog in the AHL. The reality is that past those 4-5 guys the talent level dips off considerable. Nigel Dawes, who was never anything more than an AHL second liner, is top-5 in league scoring. Brandon Yip, who washed out of the AHL 6 years ago, is Kunlun Red Star's leading scorer. Most KHL teams are ECHL-calibre, with a few that would be able to take on AHL teams.

KHL over-expanded. Same with MHL.

Look at the China's team junior program, I think they play in Latvia or some noise...they won 1 out of 64 this year and it was when the Chinese players were away for national team duty and they won with 10 Russian skaters...it will take a long time and a lot of talent influx for these organizations to catch up with the long-standing clubs...

Naturally, pre-existing development talent pipelines are huge for senior teams. Designated YHL, MHL, VHL pipeline for development. The newer clubs do not have that established pipeline...thus, the reliance on Nigel Dawes and Brandon Yip types...

See: NHL expansion in 1967. Veterans and cast-aways tried to keep teams alive until proper drafting and development took hold. Andy Bathgate, Les Binkley types in Pittsburgh. Never established reliable draft/development pipeline...relied on castaways: Carlyle, Price, MacLeish, etc. When the franchise got Lemieux, it still had to fill around him with minor leaguers/castaways (Doug Shedden, Warren Young, Rob Brown, etc.)...really didn't find a good draft/development until Lemieux ownership really...

Compare to Islanders teams: quickly established talent/development pipeline. Built players in the image they wanted. Converted their own into scouts and coaches. Two decades of relative successes and the last solid dynasty.

Similarly, sponsorship era...as the players developed in that atmosphere began to wane, the league fell into despair in the early 80's as a result...the two teams that built the best youth pipelines won all the games basically...that's a little unfair to say, maybe, Minnesota from that era. But still...youth talent acquisition and development is how you build an organization and how you build a reliable, deep, fruitful league...
 

Kyle McMahon

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What?! 63 points got the Kings into the playoffs? Does anyone know if any other teams made the playoffs with less than 63 points in an 80 game season? I know most teams made it back then (16 out of 21 teams I think) but that still sounds insane to me.

Go check out the 1980s Norris Division, you're in for a treat! There were probably a few years where multiple teams made the playoffs with less than 65 points.
 

MS

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Most people can't see past the handful of high-end Russians that do play in the KHL, for which there is no analog in the AHL. The reality is that past those 4-5 guys the talent level dips off considerable. Nigel Dawes, who was never anything more than an AHL second liner, is top-5 in league scoring. Brandon Yip, who washed out of the AHL 6 years ago, is Kunlun Red Star's leading scorer. Most KHL teams are ECHL-calibre, with a few that would be able to take on AHL teams.

Definitely disagree here.

You mention the Kunlun Red Star - this is a team that finished 18th of 24 teams in the KHL last year (bad KHL team) and that we can have a pretty good barometer on because it's basically entirely NA players.

This is what their blueline/goaltending looks like :

Trevor Murphy - 24 y/o, above-average AHL defender through 18-19, played some NHL games for Arizona in 17-18.
Ryan Sproul - 26 y/o, above-average AHL defender through 18-19, 44 career NHL games.
Jake Chelios - 28 y/o, long-time average AHL defender, 5 NHL games with Detroit in 18-19.
Victor Bartley - 31 y/o, spent 3 full years in the NHL with Nashville 2012-2015.
Ondrej Sustr - 29 y/o, NHL regular through 2018, 323 career NHL games.
Griffin Reinhart - 25 y/o, huge draft bust but good AHL player with 37 NHL games.

Jeremy Smith - 30 y/o, long-time AHL starter through 2019 with 10 games for Colorado in 2017.

Like, literally that entire group, on a bad KHL team, was *at worst* an average-to-above-average AHL player in the very recent past. There is no way this is an 'ECHL calibre team' and they would in fact destroy most AHL teams who have to dress a half-roster of mediocre 20-22 y/o prospects every night.

Yeah, Brandon Yip is having a crazy late-career surge ... but Devante Smith-Pelley was in the NHL in 18-19 and scored 11 points in 36 games for that team. Goes both ways.

The KHL is very clearly the 2nd best league in the world, although still miles and miles from the NHL.
 

Vujtek

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Doug Mohns scored 20 goals in 1959-60 season, tying a record of goals in a season by a defenseman (at that time), set by Flash Hollett in 1944-45 season. However NHL never recognised Mohns' achievement as an official record since he had spent some time as a forward on that season. According to Mohns himself that time spent as a forward however was negligible as all of his goals were scored as a defenseman:

When Mohns scored twenty goals, he believed that he would gain a spot in the NHL record book. Until then, onetime Bruins Bill "Flash" Hollett held the record for goals scored by a defenseman (20) and it seemed that Doug had done the trick as well. "I had eighteen goals going into our final game," Mohns remembered. "I scored two in that last game and thought I had tied Hollett's record for defensemen. Actually I had, but the league told me that my numbers wouldn't be recognised because I had played seven games at left wing. But all of my goals were scored as a defenseman and none at left wing. I thought I should have been listed as having tied the record."

From the book 'Boston Bruins: Greatest Moments and Players' by Stan Fischler, page 138.
 

Robert Gordon Orr

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Longest span/gap between…

...a player’s first and last hat trick...Jaromir Jagr 23 years and 335 days

...goals for one franchise...Brendan Shanahan 17 years and 294 days

...career highs in goals...Harry Howell 13 years

...hat tricks...Dit Clapper 11 years and 345 days

...playoff goals...Craig Ludwig 11 years and 62 days

...playoff OT goals...Ray Whitney 16 years and 344 days

...playoff wins by a goalie...Jim Henry 10 years and 11 days
 
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The Panther

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Longest span/gap between…

...a player’s first and last hat trick...Jaromir Jagr 23 years and 335 days
That is absolutely amazing.
...goals for one franchise...Brendan Shanahan 17 years and 294 days
Not sure how this works, but wouldn't this answer be Gordie Howe? -- about 24.5 years apart for first and last goals for Detroit? Steve Yzerman, about 22.5 years apart, for Detroit? Alex Delvecchio, about 22 years, also for -- you guessed it -- Detroit? (others, too)
 

Hockey Outsider

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Not sure how this works, but wouldn't this answer be Gordie Howe? -- about 24.5 years apart for first and last goals for Detroit? Steve Yzerman, about 22.5 years apart, for Detroit? Alex Delvecchio, about 22 years, also for -- you guessed it -- Detroit? (others, too)

I thought the same thing at first. I think he means greatest gap between goals scored for one franchise, with no goals scored in between. Shanahan's last regular season goal for NJ was March 31st, 1991. Then he spent nearly 18 years playing for the Blues, Whalers, Red Wings, and Rangers. Then he returned to the Devils and scored a goal during his first game back - January 19th, 2009. Therefore Howe, Yzerman, etc don't qualify, since they scored a ton of goals for their franchise between their first and last ones.
 

frontsfan2005

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What?! 63 points got the Kings into the playoffs? Does anyone know if any other teams made the playoffs with less than 63 points in an 80 game season? I know most teams made it back then (16 out of 21 teams I think) but that still sounds insane to me.

77-78 Rockies: 19-40-21, 59 pts, 2nd in Smythe - missing the playoffs with more points: Pittsburgh (68 pts)
84-85 Rangers: 26-44-10, 62 pts, 4th in Patrick - missing the playoffs with more points: Hartford (69 pts)
84-85 North Stars: 25-43-12, 62 pts, 4th in Norris
85-86 Jets: 26-47-7, 59 pts, 3rd in Smythe - missing the playoffs with more points: Buffalo (80 pts), Pittsburgh (76 pts)
85-86 Canucks: 23-44-13, 59 pts, 4th in Smythe
85-86 Maple Leafs: 25-48-7, 57 pts, 4th in Norris
87-88 Maple Leafs: 21-49-10, 52 pts, 4th in Norris - missing playoffs with more points: NY Rangers (82 pts), Pittsburgh (81 pts), Quebec (69 pts), Vancouver (59 pts).

As for which of these teams won a playoff round:
84-85 North Stars - swept the Blues (86 pts) in first round. Lost to the Red Wings (66 pts) in the second round.
85-86 Maple Leafs - swept the Blackhawks (86 pts) in first round. Took the Blues (83 pts) to seven games in the second round.
 

frisco

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Buffalo rookies broke the rookie goal scoring record in consecutive years:
Perreault 38 in 1970-71 and Richard Martin 44 in 1971-72.

My Best-Carey
 

frisco

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Daniel Sedin in 17 full seasons in the NHL finished in the top ten in goals one time (4th in 2010-11).

My Best-Carey
 

The Panther

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The Edmonton Oilers have had the NHL-season Assist Leader 11 times.
9 of these are Wayne Gretzky. (The other 2 are Connor McDavid in 2017 and Leon Draisaitl in 2020 -- if the current season is done.)

The Los Angeles Kings have had the NHL-season Assist Leader 5 times.
All 5 of these are Wayne Gretzky.

The New York Rangers have had the NHL-season Assist Leader 7 times.
2 of these are Wayne Gretzky. (The other 5 are Frank Boucher in 1929, 1930, and 1933, Phil Watson in 1942, and Andy Bathgate in 1962 [1964 also if you count total assists, but he was traded to Toronto late in the season]).
 
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MiamiScreamingEagles

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77-78 Rockies: 19-40-21, 59 pts, 2nd in Smythe - missing the playoffs with more points: Pittsburgh (68 pts)
84-85 Rangers: 26-44-10, 62 pts, 4th in Patrick - missing the playoffs with more points: Hartford (69 pts)
84-85 North Stars: 25-43-12, 62 pts, 4th in Norris
85-86 Jets: 26-47-7, 59 pts, 3rd in Smythe - missing the playoffs with more points: Buffalo (80 pts), Pittsburgh (76 pts)
85-86 Canucks: 23-44-13, 59 pts, 4th in Smythe
85-86 Maple Leafs: 25-48-7, 57 pts, 4th in Norris
87-88 Maple Leafs: 21-49-10, 52 pts, 4th in Norris - missing playoffs with more points: NY Rangers (82 pts), Pittsburgh (81 pts), Quebec (69 pts), Vancouver (59 pts).

As for which of these teams won a playoff round:
84-85 North Stars - swept the Blues (86 pts) in first round. Lost to the Red Wings (66 pts) in the second round.
85-86 Maple Leafs - swept the Blackhawks (86 pts) in first round. Took the Blues (83 pts) to seven games in the second round
.

One of those obscure facts, but Doug Favell was fantastic that playoff series. He had a .933 save percentage in two games, both losses in the mini-series.
 

frontsfan2005

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One of those obscure facts, but Doug Favell was fantastic that playoff series. He had a .933 save percentage in two games, both losses in the mini-series.

Yes, Favell had an excellent series for the Rockies.

In the first game, the Flyers outshot Colorado 44-18, with Favell making 41 saves in a 3-2 OT loss.

In the second game, the Flyers once again heavily outshot the Rockies by a 45-17 margin, as Favell made 42 saves in a 3-1 loss.

In his five career post-season games following his Flyers career with Toronto in 1974 and Colorado in 1978, Favell put up a 0-5 record despite a .921 save percentage, as he faced an average of nearly 41 shots against per game.
 

Kyle McMahon

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I was fiddling around with some franchise playoff Game 7 results on H-R and found the following interesting...

-The Boston Bruins hold the record for both the most wins (15) and losses (13) all-time in Game 7. Maybe that's not too surprising...but what struck me is that they've only played five of those games on the road (1-4 record). That one win is of course the 2011 Stanley Cup win.

-I think we're pretty familiar with the Pittsburgh Penguins remarkable 6-0 record in Game 7's on the road. But I didn't know this is actually tied for the most all-time with the Canadiens franchise. Obviously Montreal has been around much longer, but four of their six wins have actually come in recent years anyway.

-Chicago has won surprisingly few Game 7's, just seven (7-7 overall). That's less than San Jose and the same amount as New Jersey. Being an Original Six franchise isn't actually a huge advantage; there were of course only three playoff rounds during that era, so far fewer opportunities. Still, Chicago has made the playoffs about 75% of the time post-expansion so I expected they'd have played more.

-The most Game 7 wins from an expansion team is a tie between two clubs. One is Pittsburgh (10 wins), no surprise there. The other? St. Louis, courtesy of two apiece in 2016 and 2019.

-Buffalo has only won a single Game 7 in their entire history (vs Ottawa, 1997). And the winning goal in overtime in that game went through Ron Tugnutt's glove.

-The famous loss to the Kings in 1993 is actually the only time in their entire history that the Maple Leafs have lost a Game 7 at home.

-Likewise, the 2015 loss to Tampa Bay is the only time the Rangers have lost a 7th game on home ice. Perhaps more surprising though...they never even hosted a Game 7 until 1992, a full 53 years after the NHL first began playing best-of-seven series (sort of...the 1919 NHL Final was a best-of-seven format, but that's the only one until 1939).

-Carolina/Hartford is the only franchise in the NHL that has never lost a Game 7 at home, besides teams that have never played one.

-The Islanders have only hosted a single game 7 in their history. It is of course the loss to Toronto/Lanny McDonald in 1978.
 

seventieslord

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In the past 20 years, only one team has won 11 games in a playoff five times - The Tampa Bay Lightning. Chicago and Pittsburgh are the only other two teams who've done it 4 times.
 
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Oheao

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Yes, Favell had an excellent series for the Rockies.

In the first game, the Flyers outshot Colorado 44-18, with Favell making 41 saves in a 3-2 OT loss.

In the second game, the Flyers once again heavily outshot the Rockies by a 45-17 margin, as Favell made 42 saves in a 3-1 loss.

In his five career post-season games following his Flyers career with Toronto in 1974 and Colorado in 1978, Favell put up a 0-5 record despite a .921 save percentage, as he faced an average of nearly 41 shots against per game.
The best performance I think for a goalie whose team was swept was Quick in 2018. He had .947 save percentage across 4 games, but it was not enough to win a single game!
 
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kaiser matias

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The New York Rangers have had the NHL-season Assist Leader 7 times.
2 of these are Wayne Gretzky. (The other 5 are Frank Boucher in 1919, 1930, and 1933, Phil Watson in 1942, and Andy Bathgate in 1962 [1964 also if you count total assists, but he was traded to Toronto late in the season]).

You sure about that date?
 

brachyrynchos

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Phil Esposito was made an offer that he could refuse...the part of Carlo Rizzi in the Godfather. Francis Ford Coppola wanted him to play the role of Talia Shire's husband in the blockbuster film but Phil turned it down and the $5K citing that it would have meant missing a month of playing as shooting was set to start in February and that he was at the top of his career and doing well. (Esposito did go on to play on a line with Maloney and Murdoch in NY that was called 'the Godfather and 2 Dons'). Phil also was offered the part of Sylvester Stallone's older brother Cosmo Carboni in the 1978 film 'Paradise Alley' but turned it down for similar playing/shooting conflicts. Armand Assante got the part.
 
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mattihp

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KHL over-expanded. Same with MHL.

Look at the China's team junior program, I think they play in Latvia or some noise...they won 1 out of 64 this year and it was when the Chinese players were away for national team duty and they won with 10 Russian skaters...it will take a long time and a lot of talent influx for these organizations to catch up with the long-standing clubs...

This itself is an interesting fact.

China Golden Dragons in the Czech system

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/28565/china-golden-dragon
 
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