Confirmed with Link: NYR trade 2017 4th to COL for Nick Holden

[LaffyTaffy]

I desperately hope this means Staal will be traded

 

[theFiGS]

If you can't figure out why we traded for holden I'll make it clear, he was available.. We will be making some moves this summer this is the start of it, 1 or 2 dmen will be on the move probably staal and or girardi so we traded a mid pick for a bottom pairing guy assuming skeji can play 2nd pair minutes behind mcdonagh and so we can clear cap moving staal n girardi to pursue younger players upfront and go after stamkos. Shattenkirk rumors will still be around for awhile and I wouldn't be shocked if it still happens IF we can move both staal and girardi or 1 of them and Nash . I see the Rangers looking a lot different in October

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Well, I'm hoping more for #1 on the list, but it's certainly possible, given the way AV used (or rather didn't use) McIlrath.

By the same token, wouldn't it be nice if they truly were treating last season as the "last kick at the can" for the last group, and are going to play this season willing to take some developmental lumps (i.e. slot McIlrath in and live with his ups and downs)?

One can dream...

Is it possible McIlrath just got the JT Miller treatment from AV last year? AV is hard on young players, with the exception of Fast who he seemed to like right away.

I have never been a McIlrath fan. I hated the pick and I'm gonna even stick my head out now and say I still don't see what others see in the guy. I think he played well some games and looked terrible in others.

I think it helps McI that Girardi and Boyle played so terribly last year. What I mean is everyone of us could've lived with McI making a mistake. But when a vet does it, it's frustrating. I think AV see's it as the opposite. I think AV thinks when a vet makes a mistake, the vet has the resume and reputation. So he can live with the vet making a dumb play because they have more experience to draw from. Maybe that's just part of coaching the team vs being a fan and that's a dynamic nobody here could understand the other side of. (Or maybe I'm way off)

As far as the Holden trade. I hate giving up a 4th round pick and I fear that Holden is going to be asked to replace Yandle's minutes. Obviously, I don't think Gorton is dumb enough to think Holden is the same sort of player or will be as productive, but somebody needs to play those minutes. I can see AV being comfortable with a Holden-Girardi pair. (Which is crazy and scary and likely) but who knows. Maybe, just maybe the Avs were a complete ****show and Holden will blossom with the Rangers.

 

[NYR Viper]

Like many have said, this allows Gorton to move a defenseman. Staal or Klein. He's also a player who can be exposed in expansion. 3rd pairing guy who can play both sides? Good deal.

 

[Machinehead]

Holden shouldn't be anywhere near a top 4 but he's not an awful player.

His role sucks, his coach sucks, and his teammates suck. And his coach SUCKS. Was a positive corsi rel player last year despite all that.

 

[SA16]

Haven't seen him play much but his point production is not so bad and he has some pretty nice #fancystats. I think this is a good deal. I don't want to get all conspiracy-theory'd out but this does feel to me like a sign another deal is coming. Unless AV is playing Skjei on the right side and using McIlrath as the 7 again (and I'm not so sure that's the case as he's shown in his time here he would highly prefer 3 lefties and 3 righties) I can't see why we would have traded for Holden to use him as a 7th defenseman for 1.65M. That's a role that we could have got much cheaper.

 

[Waivers]

Since the Rangers are seriously going after Stamkos, it would make sense that Staal and Girardi won't be here. We picked up a serviceable defenseman for $1.6MD <!!!>.

If they're both gone, I would presume McD, Klein, Skjei, McIlrath, Holden, Diaz - pretty raggedy, but all are paid very well for what it's worth. I really think AV doesn't like McIlrath, so I'm uncertain about his future just because of who AV is - personally, I like him but may not be ideal for the system, unfortunately.

Staal for someone functional?
Stepan for Dumba?

The team could look a lot better in respect to what it is currently, while being mindful of their financials for Stamkos. But, I would think this would all have to get done relatively quick if we even have a shot.

 

[Revel]

If it means Staal is gone, I'm happy with it. Could also mean there would be a 3 way platoon with Skeij, McI, and Holden...with Holden occassionally playing the Right Side on 3rd line. (He can play the right side). I certainly hope that is not the case and that Staal is gone.....but I'm not holding my breath on a Staal departure.

 

[Cypher]

Will we be Holden on to him? Holden tight to your dreams, man!

If this means Staal is out, I am soooo happy.

McDonagh-Brodin
Skjei-Klein
Holden-McIlrath

BTW, Holden's unofficial commercial...



Partly because it was aired so often on our broadcast, but mainly because "Keep Hold'en On ..."

 

[Beacon]

Every summer people assume that Mcilrath will come back in September no better than last year, and every Fall he proves people wrong. Every October people then assume he won't improve mid-season, then he gets better as the season goes on.

Dylan played the whole last season as a 23 year old. Training in the summer, then getting the extra attention in preseason will help a lot. (Scrub prospects get cut right away, vets don't need preseason attention, leaving the coaches' for McIlrath, Skjei, Hrivik.)

Mcilrath was a solid top-6 guy towards the end of last year, and will be a great top-6 player who can pinch in on the top-4 next season.

 

[Ori]

Holden shouldn't be anywhere near a top 4 but he's not an awful player.

His role sucks, his coach sucks, and his teammates suck. And his coach SUCKS. Was a positive corsi rel player last year despite all that.

Yeah, it`s a depth guy - he will see a bottom pairing role for sure. He is 29 though and have some NHL experience, but he started so late with his NHL career.
https://www.nhl.com/player/nick-holden-8474207

I dislike this deal unless Gorton move M. Staal.

 

[Alex Jones]

Like many have said, this allows Gorton to move a defenseman. Staal or Klein. He's also a player who can be exposed in expansion. 3rd pairing guy who can play both sides? Good deal.

I would never play Holden on the opposite side. His biggest weaknesses in terms of skills are lateral skating/turning, puckhandling, (he fumbles the puck incessantly) and passing. Asking him to play with his backhand to the clear in retrieval is a really bad idea, especially since he already struggles when the puck is dumped into his corner.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don't hate this move as a depth move. He's a good 3rd pairing defenseman that was asked to play assignments way over his head.

Wonder if this means Skjei plays RD full-time or Staal gets moved?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I don't hate this move as a depth move. He's a good 3rd pairing defenseman that was asked to play assignments way over his head.

Wonder if this means Skjei plays RD full-time or Staal gets moved?

For Skjei's skate hopefully means Staal is getting moved.

Asking a rookie Dman to play his offside is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

For Skjei's skate hopefully means Staal is getting moved.

Asking a rookie Dman to play his offside is a recipe for disaster.

1) Completely agreed about Staal.

2) That said, it wouldn't be AS bad for Skjei to play his off side as it might be for some others as he played a fair amount of his games at HFD last year on the right. I don't WANT him playing there, but it wouldn't necessarily be the same recipe for disaster that it might be for some others.

 

[JHS]

Lol, I can't blame you for thinking that. I'm pretty damn pessimistic with AV as coach. I was really hoping he'd be fired this year.

Also, I am a huge huge fan of McIlrath and think he's going to be an absolutely fantastic top 4 guy in this league for a long time.

If Dylan played in the mid 90's I'd agree but the game is transitioning away from rugged defenseman into much more skilled, quick feet, good passing types.

He's going to go and let's all just sit back and think what could have been if we used the pick on Tarensenko...

 

[True Blue]

I think you may be right.

I certainly HOPE you're right.

Me too. But this? Really? At the cost of a 4th round pick? Yet another waiver level player that an asset was needed to be given up for?

And I fear that Larry is right. Yet another player that AV will find a reason to play ahead of MclRath.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Me too. But this? Really? At the cost of a 4th round pick? Yet another waiver level player that an asset was needed to be given up for?

And I fear that Larry is right. Yet another player that AV will find a reason to play ahead of MclRath.

I dunno. I think they see him as a cost controlled 4-6 guy who was played out of position by Roy, and who could thrive in a lesser role on a team that needs to save cap $.

Or, again, at least that's what I'm HOPING based on the analytics posts and visiting commentary from Avs fans...

 

[Beacon]

Besides wishful thinking, why would this mean Staal is moved? Staal is a second pair guy. Holden CANNOT play on the second pair. He can be a veteran who plays sheltered minutes on a third pair to avoid 2 rookies (Mcilrath and Skjei) playing together, but he absolutely is not a player who can replace Staal in the top-4.

If the Rangers trade Staal, either another D will be coming back or they will sign someone to replace Staal. But saying that getting Holden means Staal is on the move is nuts.

Also, in the history of this or any other franchise, can you name one time when a team trades away assets for a player's replacement before trading away the original player? Wouldn't it make sense to first trade away a guy (or at least do it simultaneously) than risk getting stuck with a cap hit and a roster spot you don't need? Is Holden such a rare commodity that we had to jump on him immediately before anyone knows what will happen with Staal, if the purpose of this trade is to deal away Staal? We couldn't wait until Staal is traded to acquire Holden or a similar defenseman? Where's the logic in this?

 

[Leetch3]

Besides wishful thinking, why would this mean Staal is moved? Staal is a second pair guy. Holden CANNOT play on the second pair. He can be a veteran who plays sheltered minutes on a third pair to avoid 2 rookies (Mcilrath and Skjei) playing together, but he absolutely is not a player who can replace Staal in the top-4.

If the Rangers trade Staal, either another D will be coming back or they will sign someone to replace Staal. But saying that getting Holden means Staal is on the move is nuts.

Also, in the history of this or any other franchise, can you name one time when a team trades away assets for a player's replacement before trading away the original player? Wouldn't it make sense to first trade away a guy (or at least do it simultaneously) than risk getting stuck with a cap hit and a roster spot you don't need? Is Holden such a rare commodity that we had to jump on him immediately before anyone knows what will happen with Staal, if the purpose of this trade is to deal away Staal? We couldn't wait until Staal is traded to acquire Holden or a similar defenseman? Where's the logic in this?

no one is looking to give holden 2nd pair minutes...skjei is the guy that would take staal's spot. my expectation right now is that skjei starts off on the 2nd pair. just whether or not he starts on the right pair with staal or on the left

and i'm not worried about playing him on the right...tons of lefties play the right side and brady did it the majority of last year

 

[Beacon]

no one is looking to give holden 2nd pair minutes...skjei is the guy that would take staal's spot. my expectation right now is that skjei starts off on the 2nd pair. just whether or not he starts on the right pair with staal or on the left

and i'm not worried about playing him on the right...tons of lefties play the right side and brady did it the majority of last year

So we simultaneously believe AV hates rookies and will give a guy with 7 NHL games (and just one pro season) top-4 minutes? This is on top of Butcher getting top-6 minutes?

There's no way anyone in the Rangers front office or on the bench thinks Skjei will play 21-22 minutes per game next year. Skjei will be the #1 guy in the AHL, and will get called up every time there's an injury. The #7 guy will be there just in case of an emergency or if multiple injuries hit at the same time since Skjei will serve as the primary replacement player. But the idea that Skjei plays top-4 minutes is wishful thinking. When was the last time the Rangers played a rookie in the top 4? That would be Sauer who had 3 AHL seasons under his belt, and then impressed the team during the preseason beyond expectations.

 

[Ghost of jas]

So we simultaneously believe AV hates rookies and will give a guy with 7 NHL games (and just one pro season) top-4 minutes? This is on top of Butcher getting top-6 minutes?

There's no way anyone in the Rangers front office or on the bench thinks Skjei will play 21-22 minutes per game next year. Skjei will be the #1 guy in the AHL, and will get called up every time there's an injury. The #7 guy will be there just in case of an emergency or if multiple injuries hit at the same time since Skjei will serve as the primary replacement player. But the idea that Skjei plays top-4 minutes is wishful thinking. When was the last time the Rangers played a rookie in the top 4? That would be Sauer who had 3 AHL seasons under his belt, and then impressed the team during the preseason beyond expectations.

So how are Mr. Gorton and Mr. Greeley doing these days?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So we simultaneously believe AV hates rookies and will give a guy with 7 NHL games (and just one pro season) top-4 minutes? This is on top of Butcher getting top-6 minutes?

There's no way anyone in the Rangers front office or on the bench thinks Skjei will play 21-22 minutes per game next year. Skjei will be the #1 guy in the AHL, and will get called up every time there's an injury. The #7 guy will be there just in case of an emergency or if multiple injuries hit at the same time since Skjei will serve as the primary replacement player. But the idea that Skjei plays top-4 minutes is wishful thinking. When was the last time the Rangers played a rookie in the top 4? That would be Sauer who had 3 AHL seasons under his belt, and then impressed the team during the preseason beyond expectations.

I mean, Skjei was playing on the right side over McIlrath down the stretch and in the playoffs

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Holden shouldn't be anywhere near a top 4 but he's not an awful player.

His role sucks, his coach sucks, and his teammates suck. And his coach SUCKS. Was a positive corsi rel player last year despite all that.

Yup and his possession stats were almost exactly the same with and without Barrie. So wasn't riding his coattails. Good deal by the Rangers. Hopefully they take advantage of having a guy like him on the books and get rid of one of these overpaid slobs.

 

[NYRFAN218]

I mean, Skjei was playing on the right side over McIlrath down the stretch and in the playoffs

I think it's pretty clear the coaching staff values Skjei much more than McIlrath. Not to mention, the D badly needs guys who can skate and make a good first pass especially after Yandle and Boyle left.

I don't see how this trade bumps Skjei out of the lineup.