Confirmed with Link: Nylander Re-signs (6 yrs x $6.9 AAV) Pt III

[HamiltonNHL]

Don't love it but I'm glad it is over.

Nylander has set a precedent that holding out will get you a better contract as an RFA.

As long as you are a RFA on a rich team and you don't mind being traded the next summer.

 

[Walshy7]

our cap bonus is he will be gone

Ooh your salty tears are going to delicious when plugs like brown are traded instead.

The anti-nylander brigade using mental gymnastics to justify the deal as “he will be gone in July” is outrageously funny

Could nylander be traded? Of course, so could marner if someone wants to pay through the nose for elite talent you have to take it

 

[Mess]

It's just the way that they presented it.

Instead of saying Nylander signed for "7.5x6, which equals a 6.96 cap hit years 2-6", they just said he signed for 6.96x6.

The better way to look at is the actual contract in 6 years for $45 mil ($7.5 AAV) and that is what it would have been had it been signed before the season began..

However as a result of holdout Nylander's lost wages is $45 mil (gross) - $3.23 mil (lost salary) = $41.77 mil = $6.96 AAV Net end result.

The contract value is the same $45 mil just the timing of the signing has the AAV drop from $7.5 mil to ~$7 mil by signing it on Dec 1st.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Marner and matthews won’t be able to use the same loophole if they hold out. It only worked this way due to having a ton of cap space this year and structuring it aonthe 2-6 equal $7m (rounding up due to whinging from other poster) they are welcome to sit too but there won’t be a deal with this kind of “overpay” for them

But if they don't sit, they can easily claim 7.5 is what Nylander got. You can't punish them for not holding out. If Nylander took 7 from the start it would look much better than what ended up happening. Not blaming Nylander because maybe Leafs stayed firm on 6.5.... I dunno.
Both sides would have looked better just signing 7x6 from the start.

 

[AppsSyl]

We had all the cards. You should say 7m 6 years and it will not change no matter what even if you hold out. That's what the offer is and be done with it. Just be firm and assure him that every day he misses will be out of his pocket and not our no matter what. That's how you deal with that. It was an inexperienced negotiation and resolution. Gross won.

The point you are failing acknowledge is that it hurts the team and it's chances to win a cup if he sits out. It is obvious he would be sitting out if they didn't budge off $6mil aav as you suggest.

 

[DopeyFish]

Hey guys

Let's trade all our talented guys to make room for the plugs

That makes sense right?

 

[Trapper]

our cap bonus is he will be gone

A lot will depend on Matthews/Marner.
Rumours (unconfirmed) is that Marner would be looking for a 5 year deal.
That would end Nylander and Marner at the same time. Plus contracts to Andersen and Rielly.
5 years needs to be the huge get us 1 Cup push.

 

[Walshy7]

Oh,you're like that? Well ,yes I stand by what I wrote. If you are going to use an anomaly like Marner instead of a player that is a primary shooter instead of a set-up man then I guess you are too dense to grasp my point!
There will be many more players who likely do not deserve 7mil/yr ,but Willys contract will be used as a prime example. Is this lost on you?

Ooh I’m dense but you are worried about players that are on other teams? Got it. You care that other teams end up with a higher cap hit because of willy. Are you a leaf fan?.
Marner I used because he is a leaf and up for contract next.

Oh no thenislanders will be forced to overpay barzal now, or the coyotes Keller that’s bullshit. What a weird narrative to start

 

[thewave]

The point you are failing acknowledge is that it hurts the team and it's chances to win a cup if he sits out. It is obvious he would be sitting out if they didn't budge off $6mil aav as you suggest.

Yeah that's the unfortunate part, probably why he will be traded. I can't imagine the team is happy about all this. I don't think he would sit out for 6.5m, not unless he is stupid. We caved, it's done. Hope we win a cup this year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This. The bad d core narrative is becoming less and less relevant

It was pretty relevant last night. Unless you mean that it doesn't matter how bad our D sucks because we can count on Andersen to save us?

500k or 8% of what he should be making. If everyone that comes up for contract gets an 8% bump then assuming a cap of 80m is like 6.4million dollars OR Jake Gardiner as a contract. That's the correct way to look at this stuff.

Think about it a bit more and you might find that it's not the correct way to look at it at all because most players on our team won't have the same leverage as Nylander.

Precedence is a thing. The GMs and Burke/Cherry all brought this up because they actually know what they are talking about. Why would players take less if they have a GM willing to give more when you go about things a certain way. Your way of rationalizing all this is to suggest that players don't want the most money they can get. I think that most players want the money first. I think statistically I am right too.

Burke lost a fair bit of credibility when he stated the Leafs are not a contender. Um, take a look at the standings pal, consider that we're adding a top line forward in Nylander to that team that's already in a virtual tie for 1st overall and then consider how many games Matthews has missed. Nope sorry but I don't accept Burke as any kind of authority on anything after that comment, the guy was just so angry you would have though he had to pay Nylander himself, take that guy's opinions at your won risk I say. And LOL Cherry, he ridiculed the contract because Nylander is a 20 goal scorer and then said Marner's agent must be thrilled - um, how many goals did Marner score? I love Cherry but come on now, we all know he's way out there at times, don't we?

 

[Walshy7]

But if they don't sit, they can easily claim 7.5 is what Nylander got. You can't punish them for not holding out. If Nylander took 7 from the start it would look much better than what ended up happening. Not blaming Nylander because maybe Leafs stayed firm on 6.5.... I dunno.
Both sides would have looked better just signing 7x6 from the start.

100% agreed here of course it would be better. My guess very much is at some point nylander for to $7m and held firm but the leafs wouldn’t budge above $6.5 say then if the leafs decided sooner $7 was ok nylander would have been here.

Not saying the leafs were wrong or nylander is right. 1 week ago insiders were saying nylanders camp would accept $6.9m that’s at least 7 days earlier he could of been here

 

[Joey Hoser]

500k or 8% of what he should be making. If everyone that comes up for contract gets an 8% bump then assuming a cap of 80m is like 6.4million dollars OR Jake Gardiner as a contract. That's the correct way to look at this stuff.

You've evaluated his worth down to a specific percentage?

What if he scores like, 3-5 more goals or assists than you predict? Then he's worth it.

Seems like a pretty flimsy premise to me.

 

[Walshy7]

It was pretty relevant last night. Unless you mean that it doesn't matter how bad our D sucks because we can count on Andersen to save us?



Think about it a bit more and you might find that it's not the correct way to look at it at all because most players on our team won't have the same leverage as Nylander.



Burke lost a fair bit of credibility when he stated the Leafs are not a contender. Um, take a look at the standings pal, consider that we're adding a top line forward in Nylander to that team that's already in a virtual tie for 1st overall and then consider how many games Matthews has missed. Nope sorry but I don't accept Burke as any kind of authority on anything after that comment, the guy was just so angry you would have though he had to pay Nylander himself, take that guy's opinions at your won risk I say. And LOL Cherry, he ridiculed the contract because Nylander is a 20 goal scorer and then said Marner's agent must be thrilled - um, how many goals did Marner score? I love Cherry but come on now, we all know he's way out there at times, don't we?

Is it the greatest no, not even close but it also isn’t close to as bad as it’s made out to be. We have a great goalie I know but because we have a great goalie it takes pressure of rushing out to overpay for d

 

[hotpaws]

Do you think Laine and Connor and Trouba are going to take peanuts in Winnipeg. How about Point in Tampa?

The landscape is changing. The stars are skipping the 2nd contract

the way the league has gone we should be paying the stars coming out of there elc's and the roughly 30 yr old ufa's should be taking the hit since most under perform there ufa deals

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'd describe the signing as a mediocre contract for the Leafs, but one that still gives them everything they needed. For the player, this is obviously good. It's a lot of money, it's got long-term security, he gets to play and he gets to stay. But overall, it's neither problematic or great.

I've said it before. I have no idea how people think who says that he should have gotten $6.5M and that they need to trade him now. Even if that's the case, that's 400K overpayment. I wonder why the same posters barely acknowledge the Marleau or Zaitsev contracts, where you're talking about multi-million overpayments.

Nylander might be traded. I doubt it, considering the consistent message from management. But he might. But if it happens, it will be because the trade in itself is beneficial to the Leafs, not because their whole cap structure falls apart due to 400K, or out of spite because the negotiations were tough.

I agree. It's not what we ideally wanted but it's OK, just OK.

The point you are failing acknowledge is that it hurts the team and it's chances to win a cup if he sits out. It is obvious he would be sitting out if they didn't budge off $6mil aav as you suggest.

I agree completely. People loved to say that Nylander had no leverage but of course he did. I believe we're contenders with or without him but it's super obvious that are chances are much better with him and that's a big consideration.

 

[therealkoho]

slight over pay by the Leafs, but hey what can you do?

Nylander pouted, held his breath and stomped his feet and got almost what he wanted, now let's see him earn it, if he does bonus chips!

if they don't win it all this year, I can see Nylander moved, if they win it all, then for sure Nylander will be moved, that of course depends on the ask by Matty and Mitch

if they can get those two guys for @20m against the cap 10.995 and 9.0 , Nylander could be kept by using the LTIR and saying good bye to Gardiner, unless he takes 5m long term, if not cross your fingers and hope that Borgman is ready for full time employment as the Oz' partner and Dermott steps in and picks up where Gards left off, the big question mark is who plays with Rielly, a smoothie like Rosen?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

As long as you are a RFA on a rich team and you don't mind being traded the next summer.

Were trading Marner or Matthews in the summer? Is that realistic?

 

[PromisedLand]

I'll ask again in the new thread....
With only 2+mil in bonuses this year, what is the actually cap hit?
Is it 7.5mil and knocked down to 7 by signing on Dec 1st without a ton of bonuses?
I know going forward it's 7, but if he signed the same contract in the summer it would be 7.5?

Yup!

here is hoping matthews and marner agents don't use this analogy in bargaining or else either we over pay for them to be here at training camp or they are dec. 1st signing as well

 

[Gary Nylund]

Is it the greatest no, not even close but it also isn’t close to as bad as it’s made out to be. We have a great goalie I know but because we have a great goalie it takes pressure of rushing out to overpay for d

That's fair. Andersen is the key to our hopes, the most important player on the team and if he's excellent in the spring, he may well be enough to make up for all our defensive weaknesses. I still don't want to try to picture our D without Jake but I'm going to try to put that worry on hold for now and enjoy what awaits us over the next 6 months or so.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It was pretty relevant last night. Unless you mean that it doesn't matter how bad our D sucks because we can count on Andersen to save us?

We're fifth in the league in GA.

What position do we have to sit in for you to think we're adequate defensively? 1st? Or might 2nd be acceptable?

 

[Walshy7]

That's fair. Andersen is the key to our hopes, the most important player on the team and if he's excellent in the spring, he may well be enough to make up for all our defensive weaknesses. I still don't want to try to picture our D without Jake but I'm going to try to put that worry on hold for now and enjoy what awaits us over the next 6 months or so.

Goalies are the most important player on every single team. What have St. Louis done with a top forward and a great d core?

 

[hector morrison]

Ooh I’m dense but you are worried about players that are on other teams? Got it. You care that other teams end up with a higher cap hit because of willy. Are you a leaf fan?.
Marner I used because he is a leaf and up for contract next.

Oh no thenislanders will be forced to overpay barzal now, or the coyotes Keller that’s bull****. What a weird narrative to start

My point was a swing and a miss for you! You missed the point,then insulted me! I in turn ,insulted you,with trying to explain further what my point was. If you don't get it,or don't agree ....then that's ok! Really isn't all that important. We will see in the form of future young players contracts what examples they use . If that player is a 20 goal or more player,I am reasonably sure that Willy's name will crop up! Are there other factors to consider? Obviously! But scoring goals is a major one.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

100% agreed here of course it would be better. My guess very much is at some point nylander for to $7m and held firm but the leafs wouldn’t budge above $6.5 say then if the leafs decided sooner $7 was ok nylander would have been here.

Not saying the leafs were wrong or nylander is right. 1 week ago insiders were saying nylanders camp would accept $6.9m that’s at least 7 days earlier he could of been here

It's kinda frustrating now thinking about how it played out.
7x6 was fair enough. That was Pasta plus inflation. There were so many rumors of Nylander starting at 8 and Leafs at 6, and we waited till 30min before to the deadline to meet in the middle?
I'm angry at someone, I just don't know who was the stubborn one in this situation.

 

[X66]

Man the Dubas haters look ridiculous right now still grasping at straws here.

He made a great deal, get over it.

Nylander's cap hit is inflated this year because of the CBA rules but his 6.9 annual cap-hit is actually less of the cap % that Pastrnak took when he signed his deal.

Nylander's 6.9 cap-hit is about 8.7% of the cap at 79.5 mill, this is largely thanks to how the Leafs have used their financial muscle.

Dubas can go on to mess up every other contract he deals with, but so far with the Tavares and Nylander contract they hit the trifecta, Happy Players, Happy Team & Happy Fans.

 

[Walshy7]

My point was a swing and a miss for you! You missed the point,then insulted me! I in turn ,insulted you,with trying to explain further what my point was. If you don't get it,or don't agree ....then that's ok! Really isn't all that important. We will see in the form of future young players contracts what examples they use . If that player is a 20 goal or more player,I am reasonably sure that Willy's name will crop up! Are there other factors to consider? Obviously! But scoring goals is a major one.

Ok again why do you care if it isn’t a leaf player? Why?. If kappy scores 20 this year he will be a single time 20 goal scorer without the 2x 60point seasons he isn’t getting a big contract, same with Johnsson. So outside of those 2 anyone else is on other teams so who gives a shit?